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Which would you rather have?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Section126, Aug 28, 2014.

Which wouldl you rather have?

  1. A) AFC Championship berth and loss.

    60.0%
  2. B) Miss Playoffs, with prolific Tanny season.

    40.0%
  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Don't need to break up the thread but I gotta add this, just turned into total access on NFL network, amber tho harris in a super tight short naughty dress just said this is "T and A"..... I swear lol....,
     
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  2. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sure you can. The talent level in the NFL is pretty narrow. Most of the league sits in that 7-9 to 9-7 range. Bounces and luck will move a team up or down from that on any given year, but that's where most teams lie. Playing within that same narrow range and getting a few bounces doesn't make them a good team. That's what the question was asking. Would you want another mediocre team that got enough bounces one year to make the conference championship or do you want a team that has an elite QB but had less success that one year? What differentiates teams is generally standout play at high impact positions. If a team is getting great play from their QB they will have a chance to be above that mediocre level perennially. When you want to figure out the teams with best chance to win a SB each year, you start with the teams that have elite QBs. It won't happen every of course, but that's what you need to have a chance every year. I prefer to have a team that has a chance every year.
     
  3. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I responded to JDang. He included turnover free football as not a discernible reason.

    I don't believe a team can make it to the AFCCG on nothing but just dumb luck. There has to be some talent playing well. Even the Jets teams that went in 2009-2010 had very talented defenses, a strong OL and a good running game.
     
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  4. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    I'd lobby for a third option at least...

    [​IMG]

    like how about winning the freakin' super bowl!
     
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  5. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    So, those hoping for more wins have a loser's mentality? The B choosers have the same mentality as those who suggested the team intentionally lose every game in 2011, to ensure the chance to draft Luck.
     
  6. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Jdang was paraphrasing my post.

    I don't agree. A team that sneaks into the playoffs can easily get the right opponents and right bounces for a few games. Most teams are in that 7-9 to 9-7 range. That's exactly what the Jets were in 2009. In 2010 they got a few more bounces in 2010 to get that 11-5 season, but weren't more than a mediocre team that got lucky. In 2011, they were basically the same team, but finished 8-8. They snuck in as WC both years and came out on top of a few close games. Most of the Wanny years Miami was that same team that had a talented D, strong OL and a good running game, but they weren't lucky enough to make those playoff runs. The only teams that are perennial contenders are the ones that are getting elite QB play. I don't want more of what we've had. I want the team that has a chance to be a perennial contender.
     
  7. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The OP's premise said nothing about sneaking in as a wild card. Could just as well be sound in all areas, but do not stand out in any one. Whether or not the team went as a WC or as a 1 or 2 seed is not specified.

    Maybe in example B part of the reason RT had a prolific season was due to luck. Or can only option A be considered due to luck, but not option B? Actually, the OP did not mention luck at all.
     
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  8. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I second that.
     
  9. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    There is no spoon.
     
  10. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 He can smell your fear

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    If you take the premise at face value, and don't assume anything more, it comes down to winning and losing, at least for me. Call that what you want, I want victories. Tannehill could have a breakout season, but even if he doesn't, I don't think he would hold us back from getting to where we want to go. He doesn't have to be THE reason we win games, as long as they're being won. What would sell me on Tannehill is consistency. Even if he does great things this season, which would be sweet, I would still not be convinced he is the franchise until he does it consistently.
     
  11. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    The question and whole premise is extremely flawed. Sorry bro.
     
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  12. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's short term thinking. You get to have more wins one year but still no SB and still not a good team and then you go right back to mediocrity. Choosing Team B you're not losing intentionally, you just don't get the lucky bounces one year.
     
  13. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The only things that were assured was that Team A was not good for any discernible reason and Team B had a good QB. I'd take the team with the good QB.
     
  14. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    Keep in mind folks that Dan Marino was the most prolific passer in the NFL ever. The rub you ask? No rings.
     
  15. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    Butterface.
     
  16. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Those things are not included in the OP. You seem to be supposing that is what would happen. The scenario is about 2014. What happens in the following years is not mentioned. You are supposing the option A reverts to mediocrity.
     
  17. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Right. But the point is, we were in contention w/Marino on a consistent basis because of his individual greatness. Without Dan Marino, some of those Dolphins teams wouldn't have come close to .500. If Tannehill emerges as an elite passer, the road to a Superbowl isn't guaranteed, but far more likely.

    Put it this way... Swap Montana and Marino in the 80's. Does Marino have rings? Does Montana have rings as a Dolphin? Swap Aikman and Marino in the 90's. Does Marino have rings as a Cowboy? Does Aikman have rings as a Dolphin?
     
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  18. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Thank you. I've been making this point for years.
     
  19. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    True but its logical to conclude that if we do nothing particularly well we won't have sustained success.
     
  20. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm supposing that a team that isn't good but happens to get wins one year won't continue to get wins. That's hardly a stretch. It's also not a stretch to think that a team with a good QB has a much better than average chance to be good going forward.
     
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  21. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    It's not. As you can see by the last 9 pages.
     
  22. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    top 10...top 12....

    Only 12 teams make the playoffs.

    Yes...their rankings that year point to a "good" team. Nothing more than that. That team had ELITE QB play through the playoffs. That is why they won.
     
  23. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    I said "No discernible reason"

    of course..that was a mating call for people to assign "discernible reasons".


    You don't have to jump through hoops. Plenty of mediocre teams make the playoffs. You are talking about winning two playoff games.

    You can win two playoff games through chance or even spectacular play by one guy in each game....THAT does not mean you are any better had you lost a heartbreaker in the WC round on a 58 yard field goal.
     
  24. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Well, nine pages doesn't prove anything. There was like 500 pages on our new logo.

    It's obviously flawed because most of the posts in the thread are people, solid posters and good members, trying to figure out or interpret what you mean. The parameters are muddy. It's also flawed because it's a team sport. Tanne could be mediocre QB as you must assume he is now, and QB his team to a championship game because of some good luck and the ball rolling the right way, etc, etc, etc???? or show he's an elite QB and he and his team are home watching the playoffs? ...because of some bad luck and the ball rolling the wrong way, etc, etc, etc???? LOL!! Also, so instead of going to CHAMPIONSHIP now with that said QB, people would prefer to be out of the playoffs with the hope he continues to show he is elite and so maybe in the future he can...I don't know...get us to a Championship game????LOL!!!...AND...you have to hope that the rest of the very good players around him, like Wake are still there. See.....? Many factors. There's been many great or elite QBs who have taken a very long time and or have never got to or won a Superbowl. We as Phin fans should know this better than anyone.

    Sec, you know I dig you and you're a favorite poster of mine, but I just think you may have been lost in the sauce when you posted this. It happens to me all the time. I need a drink!!
     
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  25. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    The Hypothetical is as clear as can be. SO clear that it is making TV next week.
     
  26. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That doesn't make the premise flawed, the posters just can't get with the concept of a hypothetical. The hypo parameters are clear. Those muddying up just don't want to accept the premise. They can create their own hypothetical if they want. The seahawks made the playoffs at 7-9. Then they beat the defending Super Bowl champs. Was it their 25th ranked defense (total and scoring)? Maybe it was their 28th/23rd ranked offense. Maybe it was their all-pro QB Matt Hasselbeck with his 73 QBR. Or maybe ClipBoard Jesus (Whitehurst) with his 65 QBR. Oh I know, it was Marshawn Lynch with his 3.5 ypc, or Justin Forsett and his 500 yards (4.4 ypc though ...).

    Perhaps it was the future HOF WR Mike Williams and his team leading 751 yards receiving and his 2 TDs.

    I know some of you might say "look at the Seahwaks now" yes but today's team is much different than that last one. Sec's hypo doesn't guarantee the 300 transactions or whatever Schneider and Carroll performed would be as successful. That team that went to the divisional round was less than mediocre they were at the bottom of the league in all the major categories and upset the Saints. Sec's hypo is not unrealistic or out of this world.
     
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  27. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to try to look at this in this way; the 2008 dolphins that had no business being in the playoffs vs a Marino led team that couldn't stop anybody on defense. I'd take option B. But realistically, no matter how good of a season tannehill has statistically, he ll never be Marino or Rodgers. I'd have to assume tannehill his wallace on those wide open would be tds though if he has a great season, which in itself would be worth not having to listen to clueless fans dog Wallace when all the guy does is destroy his man deep on a seemingly weekly basis. So I'll take option B with the assumption that Tannehill could repeat that season. If both options are flukes then I'll take option A. I've officially lost myself :)
     
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  28. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    In your Seahawks comparison, you're talking about two QBs. One is a journey man QB and the other is Wilson. This was about one QB. ...and if we go to the Championship game, as mentioned in the OP and then we have to draft a QB because the QB that took us to the Championship game turns out to suck later on or just continues to be the vet journey man he was, like in your example and the staff knows this and then we our fortunate to draft a great player like Wilson who does and takes us to the Superbowl, then ....win-win, no? Although we won't know if we will be lucky enough to find a Wilson, so take the wins now and hope they progress in the future. No, his hypo doesn't take into a account all of those moves, just like we wouldn't know what moves the Phins would make after that Championship game. Take the wins when you can get them and however you can get them.
     
  29. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, right in between TMZ and The Real Housewives of NJ.

    I completely understood what you meant from the beginning and still do. I previously explained my points. Peace.
     
  30. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Umm, no. I didn't compare the previous Seahawks team to the current one. I was showing the Seahawks as an example of A, a hypothetical some say is unrealistic. I was just pre-empting arguments some might make about the Seahawks now being a great team.

    The Seahawks are an example of a team, in real life, being very mediocre in the regular season, somehow making it to the playoffs. And while they didn't make it to the NFCCG, I'm just showing the scenario Sec posted isn't that far fetched. They were just one game short of the NFCCG. A typical bad game by Cutler and they could have advanced. That is a team that ranked in the bottom fifth almost in defense, bottom in offense, QBs played atrociously, they go 7-9 and hey they're in the divisional round.
     
  31. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Thats a great analogy. The 2008 club won 11 games and the division. Would you take them over any of the teams from 95-99 with Marino that never did that well? How about vs the 02 or 03 squads with Ricky tearing it up on the ground? I know that I wouldn't. None of those squads won the division, but I think that subjectively speaking, they were all better/more talented than the 08 club.
     
  32. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    This isn't that complicated...

    Option A: A feel good season w/instability at the most important position in football. Instability at the most important position in football means inconsistent final results year to year.
    Option B: A heartbreaking season w/stability at the most important position in football. Stability at the most important position in football means consistent final results year to year.


    And lastly, You now have to consider QB contracts. Anyone choosing option A, remember this... QB's who lead their teams to into the playoffs and get to championship games, are going to get paid. Even if they're not primarily responsible for their teams success. See Ravens/Flacco and his $120 million dollar deal. See Kaepernick/49ers and his $120 million dollar deal. See Andy Dalton and his $120 million dollar deal.

    If the Dolphins were to make it to the AFC Championship game w/Ryan Tannehill as their QB... And he performs in the mold of a Flacco/Dalton, Tannehill is on deck for one of those ridiculous contracts. The only way I could live with Tannehill getting one of those contracts is option B. Because he's truly earned a franchise QB deal.
     
  33. DHPVW

    DHPVW DuB addict

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    I vote B....simply because we need a quality QB and team leader more than anything else. Team has been searching for one for years. Tannehill needs to succeed and this organization knows that. What's the point of AFC berth if we just lose? More important for Tanny to settle in and prove he is the guy.
     
  34. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Just because the QB in option A does not have a big season for stats, does not mean the position is unstable.
     
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  35. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    In today's NFL, it more than likely does. Which QB's are putting up mediocre stats, going to championship games/making playoff runs, and are completely stable? Joe Flacco? Eli Manning? Alex Smith? Mark Sanchez?
     
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  36. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He doesn't just not have the stats. According to the parameters of the hypothetical, he's also not discernibly good.
     
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  37. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Once again Thank You FFG!

    P.S. I'm on your side.
     
  38. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Yeah, those San Fran fans just hate Jim Harbaugh. 36-11-1, 3 straight playoff appearances, 2x Championship games, 1x superbowl appearances, w/two suspect QB's. Would of been x2 if the refs didn't help Seattle out. 49ers fans can't wait until he's gone. I hear they even have started a petition to bring back Mike Singletary.
     
  39. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Which is why I went with A) because it points to us having a better than good O line and Defense .... for without at least one of those 2 we won't make it to the Championship game. And, as you so astutely pointed out some crappy QB play has not derailed a good team from winning in the post season.

    P.S. I'm one of those few loose cannons that is still unconvinced we have a franchise QB in the making, personally feel he might have a few missing brain waves. Pre med does not mean football savvy IMO. This is even more true when you consider that having gone thru 2 knee surgeries, both times the nurse had to write on which knee the Dr. had to operate on, clearly points to the fact that Doctors don't know their left from their right. ;)

    The above is even more scary when one considers that the knee in question was prepped for the Dr. too
     
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  40. ASUFinFan

    ASUFinFan Uh huh

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    I voted A, I'm more of a team success guy. I think winning breeds more winning in general. But that's with the concept that our qb and offense helped miami in getting to that point. I think with mark Sanchez and even Chad Pennington, people knew that there were other factors in play, and that they weren't franchise pro bowl qbs of the future, minus jets fans. I'd like to think that if Miami were to go as far as the polls say they would, that Tanny would be a big factor in that. Great poll question though! Makes you really think right there, future vs present.
     
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