While we will add a Vet FA Quarterback, signs pointed to building around Henne...

I think its Matt Hasselbeck....I cant see them doing what it takes to trade for Palmer, and then having an open QB competition in TC with Henne. Cant see it at all.

 

I believe he will be cut, he has said that he'd love to play in Miami.

There are reasons why I like VY for us, especially as a #2 Qb where we do not bet the house on him and he has time and pressure to see if he screws up.

 

I wish we could swing a deal for Flynn but I think we'd end up over-paying quite a bit.

 

Do not want, the way I see it, I'd rather pick up a proven vet, a VY a Collins a Grossman, and draft a Qb than to make a deal, an expensive deal, for someone elses' unproven Qb, there would be no difference between whom we pick up and Henne, both are a roll of the dice.

Give me that Vet with 20+/td/int at least 50%/60% completions..and pound the rock..

 

Little late to draft a QB, no?

Like I said, I wouldn't want to over-pay on Flynn so that's a pipe-dream.

All 3 of those QBs are proven to have a laundry list of flaws. I'd like to add a vet, but it'd be nice to have a younger QB who actually has some upside. I like Thigpen but I def wouldn't go too far to retain him.

Equally important would be adding a quality RB in FA.

 

Well, with Penny just done physically, we must have a Vet Qb to backup Henne, not a rook, not an uproven guy, a Vet, I'd think we are an attractive destination for the 4 Qb's I listed as they know they can return to being Starting Qb's (and the money that comes along with it) in Miami.

If you are VY, Leinart, Grossman, et al, you would run to sign in Miami simply for the opportunity to start games again.

Guys like Kerry Collins and Hasselback would figure to be in that mix as well.

Agree somewhat about the FA Running Back, if Wanny could win in Miami with RW carrying the rock 300 times anyone can win down here if they have the running back to ride so to speak.

 

Very few of those RBs left in existence. Certainly none like that in FA, imo.

 

That is Matt Ryan's secret to success BTW, Michael Turner carries the ball 300 times per yr the Falcons are pretty good..

And he was a FA, they exist, HC's do not have the balls to hand the ball off that often any longer.

 

Lost a lot of faith in Henne on the back end of our schedule last year but he has shown potential, does seem Ireland/Sparano might be content to build around him and this season could be his and their last chance if he doesn't deliver. Though we never really know what they might be thinking in regards to Free Agency, last year we heard they were happy with the receiving corps and then in comes Marshall. Feels like though that Henne will be our starter on Monday night and hopefully he can have a great year, that jersey I bought two years ago wasn't cheap.

I don't really want Collins, just too old at this point and would maybe be a one year fix like Pennington essentially was. Don't think Collins is good enough to lead us to a playoff win and we would still be unsure of the final verdict on Henne. A good veteran backup though. Palmer I think has enough years left and would be my first choice in free agency but who knows how that situation will end. Could see Vince coming in and competing with Henne, I like his talent but don't trust he'll ever mature and "get it." Even if Henne isn't able to succeed this season it does seem the next Quarterback will walk into a much better situation.

 

Sure as **** doesn't hurt. Although Turner def started to wear down towards the end of the year. A solid OL, Roddy White and Tony G don't hurt either.

I don't see a 3-down RB out there this year. At least not one worth paying for. Michael Bush would have great value imo, but the Thomas pick makes me think that Bush would be too similar for our FO to want to chase, if he even gets out of OAK.

 

Vince Young isn't an option if you want to win, I'm sorry but I can't honestly believe he's even in the discussion for our team. We are talking about a guy that is mentally unstable, uncoachable and hasn't fixed simple issues with his game in the entire time he's been in the league. We'd have to dumb the offense down and build around his obvious flaws. Honestly if we pick him up I hope we play him so that the entire coaching staff and front office can get fired faster, I'd lose all faith in this team if we picked up Young.

I like Orton, I'm not sure what the knock on him is. Yes he's not in that elite company of Manning or Brady but the guy always throws more TD's than picks, he's shown he can win games and protect the football. I think he's a lot better than Henne. If he is expensive to trade for then obviously we shouldn't but if we can get him for a 3rd I think our front office should be making that trade in a heartbeat. I don't really understand the reasoning behind the hate for the guy or why Denver would be wasting their time on a player that will have to be groomed for years to be just as good as Orton. To me if we can get Palmer or Orton they are both obvious upgrades to Henne and we should be looking into them as serious options. Guys like Leinart, Young, etc are not guys that are an upgrade to Henne so I don't see the point in even considering them.

 

They tried to do that same thing here, Grove and Smiley flamed out and R+R fell off of the cliff, goes that way for us.

Javon Ringer as well, in the new offense/mallett thread it is mentioned we are really changing the offense, more 3 and 4 wr sets, audibles, one back in the backfield type things, DT fits that but wonder if they will look for a COP back or if they think Sheets is that guy?

 

Could certainly see Hasselbeck here as a short term competition to Henne, and maybe a one year starter if we end up drafting a QB next year. A two year contract or so. Somewhat similar to Penny in that he doesn't have a great arm, but is more cerebral, not prone to mistakes, a leader - a smart player.

Whether Matt would want to come here is another question entirely. Being older, he may look for an easier road to the playoffs if one exists.

 

For me it is simple FFs72, you win games with mobile Qb's VY can do that for us, and he has not played very much for 3yrs so he should be fresh.

Same here, but I'd prefer to not give up draft choices next yr, just to me this Regime has gotten everything they asked for, they have to make it happen this yr imo.

 

Then where is the competition? If you're getting a guy who is expected to be the backup, then it's not a fair QB competition. It turns into last year, how did that work out?

If Chad Henne plays well, it doesn't matter if Tom Brady is his backup. Winning cures everything. If Chad Henne plays poorly, it doesn't matter if Tom Brandstater is his backup, fans will be calling for him to play. That is the nature of the position.

They (the front office and Sparano) have been pretty adamant about bringing in someone that can push Chad Henne and at the same time give this team the chance to win. I believe there will be a strong effort to bring in a QB via FA or trade (if there is an offseason). If they fail to do so, then they've made their bed with Chad Henne. If he doesn't work out, then this front office/coaching staff won't work out either.

If it's me, I'm not hedging my bets on Chad Henne. I'm doing exactly what they're saying they will do and that is be aggressive in bringing a guy in who has a chance to win the QB position. If Chad Henne wins that competition, he's the starter. If he doesn't, then he isn't. It's very simple in my mind.

 

If Miami makes any aggressive move via trade, then they are saying that this is the QB. I think the Dolphins would prefer to be more aggressive in FA, without the cost of a future draft pick, and the investment of money afterward.

I think you will see an strong attempts and prospecting of Matt Hasselbeck and Vince Young.

 

Agreed, that is why they did not trade next yr's draft picks to select a CKap.

Eh, depends, a FA Qb will see a good wr corps and Big Jake and see it is a good landing spot, but will they compete, or will they know they are the #2 Qb?

Add Palmer, Orton, and Grossman to that list.

 

I don't think Miami will even so much as sniff Rex Grossman. Hell, they may not even recognize the guy as a FA. They aren't going to bring a guy whose been in the league for some time and is a habitual turnover machine. That's not their kind of QB.

I think Matt Hasselbeck has the leadership and accuracy they covet (a la Pennington). Vince Young has the ability to make plays out of the pocket, get the ball downfield, and make plays himself that they covet. I think that's why they will be their top targets. I will say that if you bring in Hasselbeck, you're almost saying he's the guy also. I don't see him being comfortable settling for the #2 spot.

The more I think about it, Miami might just bring back Thigpen...

 

We'll see, he does meet their criteria for a Qb.

Offense is changed, apparently there will be more 3 and 4 wr sets meaning the Qb is going to get hit which is a part of the reason why I'm putting a premium on mobility (VY, Leinart)./

I'm one of the few Thiggy fans left, would prefer VY or Leinart or even Gradkowski, but if Thiggy comes back I wouldn't complain.

Most would though.

 

Miami would be much better off with Thigpen than wasting money on Vince Young. Vince is too damn stupid to ever get it in the NFL. He will never be able to process information quickly enough to be a legimate quarterback in the NFL. The only way I would sign Vince is if he would agree to come in as a camp body at the tight end position. Tyler Thigpen is a much better and smarter quarterback.

 

Eh, while I do agree, Young has NOT shown he has much in the way of coverage reading skills, I do believe running Qb's win football games...until they are knocked out running the ball.

 

Running quarterbacks limit your offense. You cannot win by running the option in the NFL, and you cannot win when you have to scale down your offensive terminology and passing game to high school level concepts because your running quarterback is too stupid to learn, assimilate, and process information quickly.

 

Not option Qb's just mobile Qb's, they do win ballgames even when they cannot pass for crap, it causes problems for Defenses that regular Qb's just do not cause, and note I also have Leinart and Grossman on the list, Leinart can run a bit, Grossman is as pure a pocket guy as you can imagine.

All 3 have led teams to the playoffs.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LeinMa00.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrosRe00.htm

Bottom line here KB, we are in a non optimal situation, these are just options.

 

What is the difference between mobile and option quarterbacks? There is very little difference to me. Vince Young is a read option quarterback. He is not and never will be a drop back passer, and the history of this league shows that you go nowhere without a drop back passer at quarterback. No read option quarterback has ever had success in the NFL.

Oh, and this front office has already shown they are not to the point of desperation. If they were, then they may have jumped on Kaepernick at 15 or taken Mallett at some point. They didn't though. They drafted as if they are secure in their jobs. Signing Vince Young would be the ultimate sign of desperation. As I said, this team would be better off resigning Tyler Thigpen. At least Thigpen has shown that he can play in this league and is a very bright guy.

 

The best quarterbacks are pocket quarterbacks that require a spy to stay in. The Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisbergers are excellent at keeping a guy close to the line. This is where Christian Ponder will shine and will prove he was not a reach at 12. Those are mobile QBs in my book. Steve Young, John Elway...

 

A bargain QB in the system Miami plans on running would be Alex Smith. He's put up a 82 QB rating the last two years in San Francisco. Smith is mobile, has put up similar stats to Henne, is around the same age, and is probably the more talented of the two with a lesser line around him. Smith I would be all in favor of outside of the WCO and Norv Turner's Air Coryell. With the weapons around him in Miami plus a much improved line I could see him really taking off.

 

History shows mobile Qb's win football games, look at the top 5 all time Qb's who can run, all winners.

Or Ireland was not allowed to make that move.

As for Thigpen, he does not fit the completion percentage test, he is in the low 50's:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/ThigTy00.htm

And has 12 career starts.

Thigpen is basically Gradkowski without the same number of starts.

 

We have better weapons than San Fran?

Harbaugh has been adamant he wants Smith back anyway.

 

You know after all this consideration there's one important number I look at. Chad Henne when the team is down in the toughest spot (1-7 points behind) is at his best. He's as good as Joe Flacco if not better when the team is behind. Something with the play calls must kill the guy when he's ahead because the rating is about 51. It's the same for Pennington in 2008. A monster in the toughest spots but terribly mediocre when ahead. Most QBs are the opposite. Orton, Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, and the rest of them all were hot garbage in the toughest part of crunch time. Young was actually good but moving on.

I really do think there's so much more Henne then we gave him credit for. Again I looked at Flacco in the hands of Cam Cameron's play calling and he's almost identical slightly ahead as he is slightly behind. It just makes no sense. We would not be having this discussion if Chad Henne was a 88-90 rating QB right now.

 

Well, I have been unable to find a Qb who ran for over say 1,800 yds who had a losing record for their career.

Zorn ran for 1,504 and did have a losing record, however he also played on the Expansion Seahawks

Think of the mobile Qb's, Cunningham, Young, Vick, all winning records.

Hmm, VY..

Seriously though, Rex Grossman is looking pretty good at this point in time.

 

I really do go suggest you guys look at ESPN's splits for some quarterbacks. You'll be surprised just how bad the play calling was when Miami was ahead rather than behind. It killed Henne's passer rating. KILLED IT

143 217 1571 65.9 7.24 57 6 4 10.0 88.7, That's what Henne is when you're calling a solid game plan. He's even better with a ground game, a better line, and better overall personnel.

 

This is about buying insurance Jaj not Henne per se.

At least it is to me.

 

I have a strong hunch that Palmer will be available..so if they wanna go there imo they will have that oppurtunity.

 

Thigpen will definitely be in more of his own element in this new system with the additions we just made and will probably continue to make in FA. I agree; Thiggy probably makes the most sense.

Not to mention, if we "were" looking at Locker & Ponder, then Thigpen fits that mold better than Carson Palmer.

The only way Vince Young sniffs our locker room is if he's wearing a janitor's uniform. That's not the kind of character risk this regime will bring in. Wont happen.

 

I can sit here and use your entire logic against you. If you bring in a guy to backup Henne, then if he beats Henne out he will earn the position. The are a handful of reasons for bringing in someone as a "backup" (including the lockout and Henne already having a head start); however, the biggest reason goes back to my first statement of the previous post that you seemed to completely ignore---- "not dividing the team".

exactly! How did it turn out when we had veteran Pennington (a guy who was in the twilight of his career while our team is ascending) looming over Henne's shoulder preventing Chad from being able to grab this team by its horns. Penny divided the team. You have to let your young kid take his lumps and DEVELOP without the fear of being yanked around every corner or without him having to worry about the team looking to a veteran when things get tough. That's a HORRIBLE way to run an organization. Did you listen to Mel, McShay, Coach, and Bruschi speaking about QBs just drafted?---- similar to what I'm saying.

 

So the team who asks Dez if his mom was a hooker will now suddenly want a head case like Young? Don't buy it.

 

We drafted someone that was convicted of murder. We traded for a guy that has a history of batter and assault. This team is willing to take chances like everyone else.

 

You didn't say bring a guy in to compete with Henne. You said bring him in to back him up. Chad Henne hasn't earned the right to come into camp and be the starter without competition. That is a HORRIBLE way to run an organization.

Again...if Chad Henne wins there will be no divide. Chad Henne had every opportunity and he didn't. I mean it's obvious by the comments made by coaches and p layers. Every player was on the side of Henne at the end of 2009 and beginning of 2010. I mean Brandon Marshall came out and said he believed he was going to be a Pro Bowl QB, then by the end of the year he wanted Tyler Thigpen starting. Anthony Fasano was seen multiple times yelling at the guy and the team was clearly deflated before the Tennessee game.

Chad Pennington didn't divide that team. If you're taking that approach, then Tyler Thigpen is just as much of a culprit as being a divider. Heck, players wanted him playing because they had more confidence in him to get the job done than Henne.

It's amazing that some people think Chad Henne deserves to be placed in this perfect bubble, that most QBs don't get, for him to be successful.

Chad Henne needs someone to come in and compete against him. He doesn't deserve to be named the starter with no competition. If he wins the competition, he deserves to be the starter.

 

Do you have prove that Vince has reformed himself? I rest my case.