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Why don't we just trade for a linebacker?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by LBsFinest, Aug 13, 2014.

  1. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    This Ellerbe and Wheeler stuff is pretty funny. They haven't played a game in 8 months and yet they continue to get worse and worse by the hour.
     
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  2. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    You never know, Eagles got DeMeco Ryans from Houston for a 4th not too long ago, he had made a couple pro bowls up to that point.
     
  3. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Still defending your boo Ireland's signings, how cute!
     
  4. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Perhaps you have missed the play of the Dolphins over the past decade. That must be why when you complain about the whiners who you feel have been too negative about the coaches, GM, and many of the players over that time period, you obviously didn't see how mediocre or worse most of these individuals have been over the decade.

    It's great that you seem to always want to spin something positive from the past decade, but most of us who actually watched this team over that period of time, realize that this team suffered though some of the worst head coaches, GM's, and players this organization has had in it's entire history.

    If it makes you happy referring to us as whiners, so be it. I just feel that we have been more about expressing the truth in regards to how inept this organization has been over the last ten years, while you have continued to tell us all that things really weren't that bad. Unfortunately you were wrong and things were that bad.

    We all hope that going forward, things will get better. But until this head coach shows he can put a winning team on the field for an entire season, there have to continued doubts about his ability as an NFL head coach.
     
  5. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Since they were terrible last year, I doubt if they can get much worse. If they do, I suspect they will be unemployed as soon as this season is over.
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The Dolphins played a game last Friday night. Ellerbe and Wheeler struggled during the game. Don't know you if you managed to catch it. It's on Preseason Live if you have a subscription...
     
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  7. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    There's nothing about your POV that's not well understood, it's just that not everyone wants to have a year round pity party. Blaming/criticizing the current players/staff for what happened 10 years ago is silly, it's 2014 and every team is 0-0, your record from the past doesn't count. Which kinda sucks b/c if the past counted Miami would start the season with the #1 seed in the AFC, #4 overall, and #2 overall if you throw out all the Packers/Bears wins from the 40's and 50's and only count games from the modern era.

    There's nothing wrong with doubts, even the best teams have weaknesses. Though if you look league wide, and you certainly should before you classify our LB group, I think you'd find our group is a middle of the pack type group. Overall, our defense, on paper, is one of the top 10 units in the league. So when people are constantly zeroed in on whatever the (perceived/real) weakness of the team then, in this case LBs, yeah I call that whining.

    If the QB position was weak you'd be talking about that all day. Hell when Henne was under center every other thread was about QB. Now we have Tannehill in there and you cant find a thread of more than few pages b/c there's not much to ***** about with him. Instead we're talking about Ellerbe and Wheeler LOL. I'm willing to bet most of the people complaining about them are ball watchers who don't even pay attention to LB play. But one guy says they suck, then 2, then 4, and pretty soon half the forum is in on it. It's unfortunate.
     
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  8. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    The "game"? LOL WTF were you watching dude, they played one series, so save the sarcasm.

    Oh, and...

    [​IMG]

    I watch the games, not just the Dolphins, every game I can find the time to watch. I know you watch the games too, but a lot of people don't, they just wander around repeating what they heard from other folks, on ESPN, talk radio, etc.
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    They played one series, about 15 or 16 snaps, and they struggled. You said they keep getting worse without having actually played a game. They did play a game. I don't know if they looked worse. They certainly didn't look better.
     
  10. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    They played one series. I don't care if they struggled or they had 10TFLs 4 sacks and 2 INTs in those 16 snaps, it's still a PS, aka glorified scrimmage, aka practice w game uniforms on. I don't care that Tannehill had a near perfect one series, or that Hartline and Wallace didn't suit up, either. It doesn't count. I thought most people understood that but I guess I was wrong.
     
  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Brock is who I listen to.
     
  12. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So, then do you think players only get better by playing in games?

    Because you're implying that players don't get better/worse by practicing, playing in scrimmages, or preseason games. You certainly don't run a full evaluation of a player based on a preseason game, but it's a great way to see how they take what they're doing in practice to a game situation.

    I think there is a ton of value in that. I also believe the fact they looked like they were still struggling says something about the players and position also.
     
  13. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    at the time I thought Miami was going to go with Flynn and Tannehill. I was really surprised when the Dolphins didn't sign Flynn, then told my Seahawk friends that they shouldn't be excited for Flynn if Miami was willing to pass on him.

    Flynn is now the NFL equivalent of Al Bundy.
     
  14. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Why are you acting like 2013 didn't happen and these 2 guys didn't perform awfully under the same defensive coordinator? It's puzzling me that you're not taking an entire season into account
     
  15. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    All that said, if the trend continues the next few PS games, would anyone expect a change by week 1?
     
  16. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Did last season count then?
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's just weird to me that you get people trying to pretend it isn't even a data point in the ongoing evaluation.

    Of course it is.
     
  18. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box


    Stop exaggerating. They only get worse by the day.
     
  19. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Hen
    What games did they perform awfully in?

    Bc we are now on page 4 and not a single person has said they really sucked vs the Ravens, Chargers, Panthers, or that they cost us the game vs NE, Tampa, or Buffalo. No examples of specific skill sets they lack, or anything. Just "they suck".
     
  20. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    You may be right on that. My bad. But its definitely gone from yaeaaah we got Ellerbe to man we gotta get rid of Ellerbe mighty fast. I'm surprised the hate hasn't spread to Reshad Jones. Like Ellerbe and Wheeler he was solid, on the verge of being upper echelon before 2013 then had what most would consider an off year. Like Ellerbe and Wheeler I watch him and I can't quite put my finger on what the problem was but I'm pretty sure there's more to it than "he sucks".
     
  21. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I have to admit, I hoped they'd play better with the shuffling around. A bit disappointed that they struggled in the first showing.

    Then again, the whole D struggled, so this may not be an LB unit thing. Maybe as the D comes together, the LBs will too.
     
  22. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    So you would lend credence to a statement claiming that they cost us a game? I'm even more confused now

    That would be a pretty dumb claim. But they certainly are large contributor to our defense finishing in the bottom third of the league against the run, dropping more than 10 spots from 2012.

    They consistently allow themselves to get blocked in the run game. They rarely get to the gap they need to get to before lead blocker gets there. They take bad angles consistently. Overall, they're just a huge downgrade from Dansby and Burnett.

    I'll be the first to admit that I was too hard on Dansby. You don't know what you got till it's gone.

    We shouldn't have to post clips and specific plays of these guys performing badly to have a discussion about their performance.
     
  23. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I think it's fair to ask for examples when someone is claiming a guy is great or terrible. I imagine you'd have to have seen him perform poorly on many, many, occasions before coming to such a strong conclusion.

    People say Tannehill struggles with his deep ball, Wallace doesn't go after under thrown balls or run good routes, Miller doesn't break tackles, etc. But in 4.5 years I can't recall a player every being trashed w/ so few people even attempting to explain why or how they came to the conclusions they have. Which is why I think there's a certain level of group think being applied here.
     
  24. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Well I told you what I think: Wheeler and Ellerbe especially are reactive players. They're great athletes but with poor instincts for a LB. They take bad angles etc.

    However, they were certainly the common denominator in the drop-off in our run defense last year. That's something I'm not sure how you can either deny or not take into consideration when rating them. 5 of our front 7 were near identical from 2011, 2012 to 2013. The difference.....Wheeler and Ellerbe. That right there says something without even watching a game. It doesn't tell the whole story obviously, but it's certainly a data point worth considering
     
  25. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I think for the next pre-season game I'm gonna not read any articles, and not look at PFF stuff til I have watched the game and made my notes.

    I agree that sometimes perception gets tainted a bit.

    I honestly can;t recall specifically how the LBs looked except...

    - I recall Ellerbe rushing into a gap and getting caught inside when the run went outside the tackle. Not sure I blame him as I don't know if it was a called run blitz or a decidion/read of his own.
    - I THINK I recall Wheeler totally whiffing on a tckle. But now I'm not sure if it was Wheeler on not.
    - Misi I don't remember too much except he aatually got near the QB, I think, which seemed like a win for a guy like him playing from the MLB spot... unless he was moved around on that play.

    BPK - Your #1 Source For Partially Accurate Reporting, ALL of the Time!!!
     
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  26. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Pretty much what I see as well
     
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  27. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Normally I hate those kind of blanket statements, and you can usually find some sort of technical, schematic, or injury issue why a player who has performed well failed to do so later on.

    Wheeler and Ellerbe just generally sucked. They sucked at a wide variety of basic, non-scheme specific tasks universally asked of linebackers in run defense. They sucked taking on blocks, they sucked moving through trash, they sucked in the open field, and they sucked making tackles. In the face of such basic incompetency, I think it's hard to really justify chasing after past performances or getting particularly optimistic about scheme changes.
     
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  28. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    What's crazy to me is that LBs generally look worse behind a poor DL and better behind a great DL.

    I thought our DL was very good through most of last year.

    So...?????
     
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  29. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Im with you there, hoping they improve but not really expecting it.
     
  30. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    That's a little over the top IMO. I think Trusnik sucks pretty much across the board, can't say the same for Ellerbe and Wheeler. I watched Ellerbe in Baltimore and he was solid, did he come down to Miami and forget how to play football?
     
  31. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    It's pretty common for players to change teams and perform markedly worse.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
  32. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Of all the names you mentioned I'd just as soon have K.J. Wright anyway.
     
  33. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    On the other hand, Henderson is looking early on like he's one of the steals of the draft.
     
  34. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I don't disagree with you at all. Actually I think Dansby is a big downgrade from Dansby when you put him in a 3-4. You saw what he did in Arizona last year, ballin out for our old DB coach Todd Bowles.

    Then I watch Ellerbe and he's not the same player he was in Baltimore, where they played the 3-4. Same goes for Soliai and Misi. Big downgrade on Odrick too, he's a solid DE in a 3-4, a bench player in a 4-3, and yeah, taking him off the field in favor of Vernon hurts the run ad as much as anything. Dion Jordan has tons of potential as a 3-4 OLB, not so much as a 4-3 guy.

    Seems to me Ireland was acquiring players for a scheme that the coaching staff wasn't running. That Ellerbe, Wheeler and a few others are playing out of position. I think those are more plausible reasons for the drop off in play than "they suck".

    If Misi's play falls off this year I'm not gonna say he's terrible player bc I've seen him for several years and he's solid, I'm gonna say it was a mistake to put him at MLB.
     
  35. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    True. Though in this case the new guy, Ellerbe, fell off and the old guy, Dansby, had arguably the best season of his career.
     
  36. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Rephrased: "It's pretty common for players to get a payday and perform markedly worse."
     
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  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    J-Dub, are you serious with the harboring of feelings from the past?, your to intelligent for that type of nonsense, football is a funny game, a team can come together at any time for a myriad of reasons, young players can develop right before your eyes, coaches can change dynamics, execution and most importantly, player performance and production, I've heard some folks that have no ties talk about how this team is trying to bond together, how the coach is going out of his way to do things differently, how the effort itself is gaining respect..you just don't know ya know, every year be happy until you have to be sad..

    You've been right about more things than some will care to admit, but that doesn't mean you should strap your feelings of past ineptness to this years squad..

    Did hickey choose the players I wanted in the draft?, no, but that doesn't mean the players that were selected won't be good..have to give them a foundation of support, as players they are motivated by the support of their fanbase more than anyone knows or cares to understand.
     
  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Flynn was so easily predicted al bundy.
     
  39. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Pessimism is the failure of past optimisms.



    Plus the choice to avoid pain.



    I respect your willingness to feel fully, Deej.. the joy and/or the pain of victory or loss. It's awesome. It's gotta be hella hard on you sometimes, but it's awesome.
     
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  40. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I'm a football fan period. Other sports I only enjoy if my fave team is doing well, Marlins, Heat, Panthers whatever. Football I enjoy even if the Fins or Noles suck,. I just love the game.
     
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