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Why is Henne holding the ball so long?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by cobrajet, Sep 20, 2010.

  1. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    Henne is the best protected passer in the game today - without question, but why is he holding the ball so long? We are 28th in passing yards and and 27th in overall yards. What gives? Is there something wrong with the WR's? He looks like he's in slow motion.

    Great win though, and very exciting!
     
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  2. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    I have noticed this myself in both games and wondered why, but I have been accused of being overly critical in recent weeks so I didn't want to post it.

    There is an unwritten rule in the NFL and it's called "the 2 second - 4 second rule". In 2 seconds the back needs to hitting the hole (while it's opening) and in 4 seconds the pass needs to be in the air.

    Even though he lost today, Favre is a great QB. If you watch the highlights look at how fast Favre gets the pass off in contrast to Henne. Henne looks like he is in slow motion by comparison. That's OK because I am sure TS has beaten it into Henne's head to not make mistakes, but we really should work on getting the pass off sooner.

    I would also like to see a wildcat that actually does something other than runs into the centers butt. We should have scored 30 points against Buffalo and at least another TD today. I think they are playing conservative on purpose and I really hope they will open it up in the next two weeks. Our Defense has carried us and they must be getting tried. Lets open up the offense.

    I am really proud of this team this week. I hope they keep up the good work.
     
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  3. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    If Henne is well protected then he should hold the ball a little longer. I want to know why Ricky and Ronnie were NOT holding the ball long enough, as in, until the whistle blows.
     
  4. Layfield

    Layfield New Member

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    Right thats sort of what I was thinking when I read this thread. The problem that I have is that after holding onto for so long he usually goes for a check down. Are the receivers that well covered or what?
     
  5. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    outside of Marshall, our guys aren't all that special. We do have to accept that and that probably plays a lot into this. Part of the reason Henne looks more comfortable on the move is because when he's on the move, that usually draws defenders away from their man, leaving them open for Henne. Our wrs aren't great at getting open. heck 2 of Marshalls receptions he was covered perfectly. He's just that good.
     
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  6. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    I would love to get a deep threat in there across from Marshall, not even an expensive receiver just someone who can put pressure on the free safety from two sides. Moore and Wallace could possibly do it.
     
  7. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    there's a certain player whom im not naming that would have been pretty good at that.
     
  8. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    I didn't even want to mention the general direction that that was going.
     
  9. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Because our line is playing well?

    Maybe our fans just aren't used to seeing a QB not running for his life.
     
  10. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    B.s.

    Favre is throwing to Greg Lewis and Greg Camarillo, whom we had as a #4WR, so these are hardly better receivers than ours.

    Only Harvin is great, and he's still not as good as Brandon Marshall.

    We have a good receiving corps.

    Henne simply takes awhile to read defenses. He's no Peyton Manning in that regard.
     
  11. krypto

    krypto Banned

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    Henne seems like he has trouble going through his progressions.
     
  12. DevilFin13

    DevilFin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not sure he is holding onto the ball for too long more than what could be considered reasonable. When he does it could easily be because no one is open yet. That is probably the case when he gets to the end of his dropback, steps up and hasn't gotten rid of the ball.

    We can't tell for sure without seeing the coaches tape where we could see the WRs running their routes. We also need to know who order his progressions should go. But my guess is that in the circumstances when its clear he should get rid of it he is a little slow going through his progressions.

    It could be that his pre-snap read eliminates one of his options. But that is the sense I get from watching him. If that is the case it could be just a lack of experience. I've often heard that the speed of the game is the toughest thing for rookie QBs to adjust to. Maybe the game is still a bit fast for Henne and he just needs to keep getting reps.
     
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  13. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    It's simple. He's being handcuffed until we get back home. His first option if you notice tends to be short throws. It looks ugly but it's working. His QBR was something around 106 today. He only got the chance to throw 14 times and a few of those were 'get rid of it' types.
     
  14. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    because he wont take risks, he isnt allowed. dont turn the ball over is his mantra. with a lead especially.

    ball control, field pos let defense win it.
     
  15. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    My horse in the commentary race is on the guys success. Let me get that out of the way. But I went back to watch game one twice (with commercials) and three more times (without commercials). Thank you Jesus for NFL short cuts and DVR!

    I'm going back to watch it the second time this morning. I just do not think what you have said is the case. I think when I watch the second time I will see the same things that I saw in the first game. He studies his first fix (two receiver grouping) for too long and doesn't release the ball on their impending move that will get them open.

    I saw one occasion yesterday where a flat defender (linebacker) was out of position (on the wrong side of the field) and he moved frantically while the ball was being snapped to the other side of the field. The slot receiver was open from the snap of the ball. Henne took the snap and then preceded to go through his reads on the side of the field AWAY from the open slot. I thought "WTF? You can't even get out of the progression long enough to take the gimme of a missed alignment?"

    Here is what I see:

    1. He studies the first fix too long.
    2. He doesn't trust what he sees on the second fix.
    3. The passes that he will throw is what he sees in coverage conclusively on the first fix.

    Number 3 is what causes everyone to see the promise in the young quarterback. And here is the progression of the promise:

    1. He knows the relationship of the route pattern of the first fix versus his presnap read.
    2. When the play called and the coverage mesh, he will make the throw.

    Everything after that he doesn't trust and he will not enter the top ten quarterbacks until he can get past the first fix.

    Go listen to the double agent Brett Favre's post game interview yesterday. He talks of his primary read being the TE on one play called and how he did not go to him. He went after Jason Allen and Jason Allen picked it off. Then he says that he went to the sideline and looked at the pictures of the primary read "Shancoe" in the endzone wide open. The fact that Favre would always do something unconventional is what has made his career. It's also what makes him a double agent.

    The point is that some QB's in the league are disregarding the "first fix" before the snap of the ball. The analysts then say that they are looking off the coverage and then go on and on about the greatness of reading their progression. The QB can only get deep in the progression by eliminating the "first fix" presnap. And the only reason you eliminate the first fix presnap is a result of the coverage called. I believe that this is what is not happening with Henne. He doesn't eliminate the first fix. He can't get to the second fix (relationship of the next two receiver group). The only thing left is the checkdown moving in front of his face.

    ............and for fans the most frustrating thing is that we know. We know even with two on Brandon Marshall, he's open. We know the Henne CAN throw the ball where Brandon Marshall can make a play versus one under and one over the top. But no coach will ever tell him to throw that ball. It's incumbent upon him to make that throw. THAT is what seperates the greatest from the average.

    Going to watch a game.:up:
     
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  16. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    15 starts....he will get better with more experience. It appears he's already cleaned up the occasional INT, and developed nice touch on some passes..(Hartline TD, Fasano last week).

    Can't we just be happy with a win in which our QB neither cost us the game or had to come down and win it for us?
     
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  17. sdboutlaw

    sdboutlaw New Member

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    Agreed...at this point in his development, I'd rather see him hold the ball too long and check it down (or in some cases, even take the sack) then to throw some of the interceptions he was heaving up last year. He'll get there...
     
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  18. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    if Henne continues to step up a little more every game, the finer points of the passing attack will work themselves out & the team will continue to win.
    how about that first play pass? :up:
     
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  19. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Because he's been well coached to not take unnecessary chances and risk throwing and INT. He's been taught its better to take a sack, or throw and incomplete pass, or simply throw it away instead of trying to force a play that isnt there. In an offense that is geared towards ball control, and controlling the clock, he's doing exactly what you coach your QB to do. It isn't exciting at all, sure, but it wins football games.
     
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  20. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    The guy has started 15 games in this league, and is 9-6. He's only getting better.

    106 passer rating and a couple of beautiful throws with ZERO turnovers. I'm not complaining at all.

    2-0 baby!
     
  21. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Favre's only TD drive was a 1 yarder. He threw 4 INTs, one of which was negated by penalty. He had more completions to Vontae Davis and Jason Allen than Greg Lewis or Greg Camarillo. Peyton is one of the top 5 QBs, ever. Both of those guys are first ballot HOFers with over 30 years of consecutive starts between them. Henne is on game number 15, so please save the comparisons.

    This was another game where team was in control of the game for most of the day, and there was no real incentive to force anything down field. And none of us have the coaches tape so none of us know if there were open receivers down field or not anyway. At some point we'll be behind and Henne will have to take the offense out of second gear, but until then, I'm not going to criticize him for being overly cautious, if indeed that's what he's doing.
     
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  22. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    sorry i see a qb that is overly cautious by dictate. look at attempts? it is the pitt approach to Big Ben his rook year.

    I agree Henne will have to open up more but he is learning/growing, not making costly mistakes, and winning.
     
  23. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    and then nothing after that??? no shots downfield, you guys see how easy that was to hit Brandon on the sideline for 50 yards?? Feed the beast I say....I mean dont continously go to him, but for him to have 3 catches against that secondary isnt good....go to the guy more often...

    They would have hooked up for their second TD of the year yesterday, if he lets the play develop....it will come, all I look for right now is no interceptions that you scratch your head at, and for 2 weeks, he hasnt soo thats good....

    CAN THEY JUST PUT THE GUY IN SHOTGUN PLEASE!?!?!?!?!?
     
  24. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    I swear to God, if Ronnie and Ricky ran for a combined 300 yards with 5 TD's, some here would still be complaining that Henne didn't throw enough passes or do well enough.

    I'm not sure how you can criticize a guy who wins and only has 15 pass attempts. You can't just impose your philosophy on a defense all the time. You have to take what they give you. I've said this a thousand times.

    The ONLY WAY the Vikes win that game is if we turn the ball over, which we did, but managed to hold on because of great defense and winning the turnover battle.

    It's a double-edged sword. I don't even want to begin to think what this board would look like if Henne threw a costly pick (like the Tampa game last year) that cost us the game.
     
  25. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Henne threw another beautiful throw downfield to Hartline that he couldn't hold on to. Wouldn't have counted because Fasano was palled for PI, but still.
     
  26. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    "My precioussssssssss"

    Chad Henne when asked to speak on this very subject.
     
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  27. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Guys,

    Dan Henning has been in this league a long, long time. Now, he drives me freakin nuts with some of his play calling....but one thing he does not do....is change from his mantra of ball control, limit risky throws, have a QB hurt you. Over the last two games, there has not been one time where we played from behind, or needed to put the game in Henne's hands, and as much as we want to, Henning isnt going to do it. I think you will see much more creative play calling the next two games, with them being both divisional games at home under the lights.
     
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  28. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Let's hope so.
     
  29. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    I'll tell you the funny thing about Henning. As much as he is criticized around here, the offensive players freaking love him. Every week in the interviews after the game, I see him referenced by the players with praise. See Captain Jake Long's interview after the Vikings game.
     
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  30. The Aqua Crush

    The Aqua Crush New Member

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    One - He is not the best pocket passer in the league. Far from it. Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Schaub are all better from the pocket. They have almost perfected every type of throw from the pocket.

    Henne can get there, but he's not there yet. His reads and anticipation of where a wideout is going needs to improve.

    He certainly held the ball too long, which could be two things, his reads are slow, or the wideouts aren't getting enough seperation. I wonder if Henne is struggling to release sooner in Man or Zone coverages. it can be tough to tell on TV when the camera is on him and we can't see what the wideouts are doing all the time. There were times when he had a TON of time to make a decision and simply held it and had to scramble. I think like others mentioned the coaching staff are trying to slowly develop him so he doesn't turn it over and lose a game. That might change through the course of the season as his confidence builds. I'm sure Henne felt great after yesterdays win, even if he didn't throw 300+ yards and 3 TD's.
     
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  31. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Like Ted Ginn Jr maybe? LOL, I apologize in advance for that one, but I still think we should have made him return kickoffs and run wind sprints on every passing play that he was on the field for.
     
  32. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Yeah because Henne said: I think I'll only throw fifteen times today.
     
  33. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I don't see the same comfort zone when he is in the pocket. He is most definitely feeling some pressure to not make mistakes. Hopefully he feels more comfortable at home this week.

    He needs to feel the pocket collapsing and know when to step up in it.

    All that said, he's played pretty much mistake free football and its one of the main reasons the team is 2-0 ..
     
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  34. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I think his comfort or lack thereof may be the kids glove approach....

    You know how they say a race car is fast, when its *** end is loose...on the envelope. Race car drivers learn to know what that "feels" like....the more they get to know what that feels like...the more they get comfortable with it.

    Our approach never seems limit the risk...to go slow...but then Henne never gets to know what fast feels like. I think right now...he may be over thinking at times....and I think he over thinks it because they dont just let him play.

    He never gets the repetition of just chucking it to let Marshall go after it....will Henning ever let him do this?

    I dont know...
     
  35. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    Playing conservative is fine if you're winning, but eventually we're going to need points. The Jets "unleashed" Sanchez after not letting him do anything when they lost, and it paid off and he had a great game. Doubt he can keep it up, but still.

    Your telling me Henne can't do that? When we play the Patriots week 4, we should be able to throw on them, especially with Marshall. Isn't that why we signed him? If we don't it may be time to get a little nervous. If we keep winning i'll be happy obviously, but how long can we play with an anemic offense and win? 20 offensive points combined in two games usually doesn't equal wins, so they hopefully get it going ASAP.
     
  36. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Hes doing what he needs to do. Remember that we havnt been behind in a game. Henne hasnt been required to air it out and take more opportunities and chances. Im sure we will see Henne let loose when its needed. Right now its not.
     

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