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Why We Have To Draft D-Mac In A Strategic Standpoint !

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by s55ean, Dec 16, 2007.

  1. s55ean

    s55ean New Member

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    I believe we have to draft McFadden only if New England is in position to do so if we pass on him... In other words, if San Fran chokes the rest of their season and New England is 2nd, 3rd or 4th overall, I believe the pats will put their hand on D-Mac and either keep him or make a trade with the cowboys, stockpiling first rounders again.... either way, the Pats keep getting stronger and we cannot afford this.

    We need to pick him and let Jones do all the dirty work ( trade his 2 first rounders for a high 1st round pick). I'm pretty confident he will do so; he has the picks to trade, has some players to trade and is deeply in love with D-Mac.

    Well this ends my original idea but i'll put a funky thought in your heads...

    What if we send zach thomas to dallas in this package... let's say...

    their 1st (combined 1sts moved up with another team)
    their 1st in 2009
    Ken Hamlin

    for

    1st overall
    zach thomas

    zach IS a texas native... I don't know if he'd be thrilled to play there (good team, native state...) maybe it's one of the best places to trade him because he would be willing to restructure, we would get good value, he would be happy with it and he'd be in the NFC haha...

    Only a thought, it won't happen but it's always nice to dream a bit :thumbup:
     
  2. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    blah....

    While D-Mac is a quality player, he is not a player of a position we are in desperate need of.... If you ask me, we need just about every position EXCEPT RB.... Glenn Dorsey looks like the best choice at this point given our dead-last ranking in run defense.... Given that we can't stop ANYone from running the ball, we need to shore up that D-line. I'm also concerned about that Jason Taylor trade talk - if we lose him, that just magnifies my argument that much more
     
  3. s55ean

    s55ean New Member

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    I never mentionned we should keep him... I said we should draft the guy in order to trade him... worst case scenario we can't do so and we're "stuck" with an exceptional RB
     
  4. houtz

    houtz New Member

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    For the money he'd want I see it this way.


    Lorenzo Booker > D Mac.

    Now go get us Dorsey or Long Mr. Muellar.
     
  5. Motion

    Motion New Member

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    Drafting a player to keep him away from another team is plain silly.

    We have far too many needs to be even thinking that. Not that I would ever agree with that logic in the first place.

    We're clearly more than one draft away from contending so we just need to keep on rebuilding and fill holes. I agree we need more weapons on offense but not in spite of other teams.
     
  6. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    "Let's draft him because someone else wants him"

    If I recall correctly that was the reason we drafted Eddie Moore.

    We are better off drafting somebody who is going to help the Dolphins the most, not the person that other people may covet.
     
  7. s55ean

    s55ean New Member

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    that is one major problem i'll give you that... especially if you can't trade the kid

    You seem to be getting me wrong people... I do not want McFadden, I want to stockpile draft picks. We need to add young players to this team ASAFP. If we trade down in a spot where we can draft lets say Laurinaitis, Connor, S Ellis, Dorsey, C Long or Gholston (yes I want defence lol ) and be able to have another player in the first round, the 09 first round or any year's second round, we therefore have 2 players and spend less money than on a first overall pick.... thats my point of view. I know it's risky business to gamble on the fact that Jerry Jones will trade with us, but it's a high risk high reward type of thing that I believe Mueller is believing in
     
  8. s55ean

    s55ean New Member

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    D-Mac is no eddie moore...

    while I admit it's a ricky business ( like i mentionned before...) it's the thing to do... not the best though... the best thing that coud possibly happen is that we make the trade before the draft, the risk factor is therefore nullified and we get multiple picks... a trade "a la " michael vick you know ? that would be awesome
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2007
  9. PCmor

    PCmor New Member

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    Apparently Mel Kiper threw out this theory a week or two ago.

    I'm in the camp that thinks it is ill-advised to draft someone just for the sake of keeping them away from someone else. The Dolphins have way too many of their own holes to fill before they can worry about competing wih NE for the division.

    Best scenario would be to find someone that wants McFadden so much they'll give up the farm to trade up to the first pick overall to take him.
     
  10. lbmclean_sj

    lbmclean_sj New Member

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    BPA vs value, it kinda sucks but it is the real world

    if year after year the BPA for us was a RB, at what point would we stop drafting them?

    look at the Lions, kept drafting WR's while the rest of the team sucked year after year

    there might not be a sexy pick this year, but we can hope to get a guy that can start and contribute from Day 1
     
  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The only scenario where we draft McF is "if" the Coaching staff and Front Office is convinced that Ronnie Brown is too fragile and to rely on him is like relying on Ricky Williams sobriety and sanity...not a good bet.

    A trade out is sort of out of our hands at this point in time, we need another team to love McF, and to be willing to make the trade worthwhile.

    For me, Dorsey is a waste of a pick, the only way we can take Glenn Doresy in good conscience is if we acquire some solid DT's in FA and we keep JT.

    Glenn Dorsey for us is a small segment of dam, the water will merely flow around him, and he can be neutralized by a simple double team and we don't have the talent to make the other team pay for that double team.

    Besides, this Draft has more then 1 or 2 DT's worth a #1 pick, Dorsey, Ellis, Okam, there will be others to be sure who haven't been injured this year.

    That is not #1 overall material folks.

    I would rather draft Brohm, then take an Okam at #32 then to take Dorsey #1 overall, the upside is tremendous if Brohm pans out for us.
     
  12. mmikel30

    mmikel30 New Member

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    it's not going to matter you better just hope the niners keep winning because if they don't get mc fadden they could get dorsey long or gholston we don't need them to get any great players period
     
  13. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

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    I think who we pick depends on several factors:

    1. Ronnie Brown - If Ronnie looks like he is healing and able to return to form by draft day in April, then we don't need to draft another RB. But if it looks like Ronnie might not be able to recover from his injury than I think D-Mac is a possibility. The bad part for us is we probably won't know the extent of RB's injury or whether he will get back to 100%. I still think RB will be able to return to form.

    2. Trade down possibilities: If a team like Dallas or another teams offers us a fair deal for our top pick than we have to listen. I think three or four first day picks and maybe a starter would be fair trade for our pick...depending on what other teams have to offer.

    If no team wants to trade down then I think we go with BPA. Hopefully the Pats won't be picking 2nd so they don't get McFadden. I would love Dorsey or Chris Long, if we decide to go with defense.
     
  14. #1dolphinsfan

    #1dolphinsfan New Member

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    We dont need to draft him just Because of New England that could mess the Dolphins up really bad
     
  15. s55ean

    s55ean New Member

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    It's gonna be one helluva offseason

    :ffic:
     
  16. phenomenalphin

    phenomenalphin Season Ticket Holder

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    Jets could wind up with the 2nd or 3rd pick and pick Mcfadden up if we don't trade down, that would be horrible.
     
  17. REV KEV

    REV KEV New Member

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    Pretty much everyone missed his point..., you pick him to trade him...

    One Defensive Stud does not stop the bleeding...

    Stock pile picks becaiuse both the Pats and "boys" proved this to be the winning formula..

    Sure volume of picks one or two will pan out...
     
  18. REV KEV

    REV KEV New Member

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    Say a BIG no to Dorsey...
     
  19. houtz

    houtz New Member

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    I'm not opposed to looking at a quarterback at all with our #1 overall. The only problem I see is weather or not Brohm is the best quarterback in this years draft. I also see Brennan being there with our 2nd. Is it worth picking a defensive player such as dorsey or Long and then going with Brennan in the 2nd?

    If you were in charge I wouldn't be mad at all.:up:
     
  20. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Dallas doesn't have enough firepower to move up to #1, even with 2 1st rounders this year and thier 1st next year.
     
  21. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    And Padre, this team will not get turned around in just one year. You keep preaching how Dorsey will be a bad pick, but then say it's because he won't fill all the holes. Well no duh, he will fill one. Just like each pick can only fill one hole. You get a couple good picks this year, including dorsey, 1 or 2 solid FAs, and some good moves next year and THEN you have something. Don't think Dorsey is a bad pick simply because the talent around him won't be good though(which it should be solid if unspectacular). And I'm sorry, but Dorsey is shoulders above Okam and Ellis. Ellis isn't even the same type of DT as Dorsey so the comparison isn't even valid IMO.
     
  22. s55ean

    s55ean New Member

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    yeah of course, but my original thought is that the trade could be made if Dalls traded up (either their first round ppicks and/or players) in well...lets say something like a top 10 pick...

    in that case the trade could very well be possible, but that's assuming Jones loves D-Mac so much that he would be willing to do some dirty work and give up a lot...
     
  23. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    If the boys can't trade up to number 1 with their current picks, based on value, they still couldn't even if they used current picks to acquire a top 10 pick.
     
  24. DolfanDaveInATX

    DolfanDaveInATX New Member

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    We already have $20 million in guaranteed money locked up in Ronnie Brown. And you want to lock up another $30-35 million in guaranteed money at that position? That is a recipe for how bad teams stay bad. If McFadden is the #1 guy, we trade down with a team that is willing to make it worth our while.
     
  25. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    35 Million guarantee is what I expect McFadden to be aiming for. 40 Mill would not surprise me either.

    He will use JaMarcus Russell, a player who's stock rose up after the Sugar Bowl and was not a Top 5 pick before that, to rise up his value.

    I don't want McFadden. I think we got a more complete and proven running back already named Ronnie Brown.

    Chris Long or Glenn Dorsey.
     
  26. s55ean

    s55ean New Member

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    Yes , if they assemble a package including player(s) and pick(s), they could easily be in the top 10 and if they are abundantly generous, might be able to get in the top 5... but the top 5 odds are real low i'll give you that
     
  27. tay0365

    tay0365 New Member

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    Why do people keep throwing out the idea of trading Zach or Jason?

    1. They are still playing at a rate on the top of their position in the NFL.

    2. They are experienced leaders that can help a defense become better with them just being there.

    3. Because of their age, you will not even come close to getting back what their talent says they are worth.

    * If one of them want to leave (Jason?), then fine you find the best way to get back what he is worth, but if not, it is idiotic to get rid of your best players for way less then they are worth.
     
  28. Captain lou

    Captain lou New Member

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    They are both great players. No one is arguing that. We aren't going to win any championships with them. Keeping them would almost be cruel and slows down the develoment of their replacements. You have to atleast trade JT for a second if we can get it. He deserves that and it is the best thing for the future of the franchise. The only mistake we made was we didn't trade him this year, but we couldn't really do that because how do you sign Joey Porter and trade JAson Taylor? It just show that the whole Dolphin organization is to blame for our current situation. Why do we sign a 30 year old linebacker for that kind of money. The franchise has to get a lot better at every mesurable level.
     
  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    A run stopping hole that can be filled by a FA or a later round pick Stitches, that is all Dorsey can really offer us out of the #1 overall pick?

    That is what makes Dorsey not a good value pick at #1 overall, especially when we can take a much higher impact DE or QB or even a OT in that slot.

    IMO, this could be a case of perceived need unneccessarily overpowering the reality of the massive pool of talent that is available at #1 overall.
     
  30. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    You can make that arguement for any position.

    Dorsey represents by far the best value for #1 overall. He is a special player at his position and he is in a position of great need.
     
  31. Marino1384

    Marino1384 Member

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    McFadden would be a horrible pick for us. Even say worse case that Ronnie won't be ready for the start of the season, I've seen enough from Lorenzo Booker/Chatman/Gado that we could make it a couple of games without him. For those that argue that drafting D-mac is the right choice just because Ronnie isn't gonna be ready, well that is ridiculous. What be the point of drafting a Runningback and tieing up all this money into him just for one season? We already have a future 1-2 punch with Ronnie as the power back/complete back and Booker as a speedy shifty back, not to mention Gado/Chatman whoever stays around plus Ricky Williams but he's a question mark.

    Best bet for us is to trade the #1 even if it's for less value to the Cowboys. They have strong depth at linebacker so i think we can get Bobby Capenter,a former 1st round pick, thier two first,a third and lets say thier second next year/conditional 1st based on the player that they drafts performance, if that is possible. This gives us a much needed linebacker setting us up with Porter/Thomas/Capenter/Crowder next year which is a very good linebacking core. Then with the other two first we get two other starters lets say Fred Davis and rthe best avialble lineman. This gives us basically a surefire 3 starters in much needed positions and a possible 4th if we pick someone good in the 3rd. In the second we go best DT with our first pick and then best cb/safety at our 2 of our 2nd round picks.
     
  32. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well Dupree, what would be a "good" impact from a DT like Dorsey?

    Historically when taken #1 overall, they washout, even when healthy, the "best" player was Russel Maryland...

    Or to put it another way, would you trade the #1 overall pick for the "best" DT in the league right now?
     
  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    why does historically matter in this case? Just because others have washed out doesn't mean he is going to. There have been some great DTs taken in the first round that all would be worth #1 overall picks.

    And yes I would if he was 25.

    There is no area of need greater. Well maybe cornerback.
     
  34. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It took Haynesworth years to become any good at all, that is one of the problems with drafting a DT #1 overall, unless Dorsey is some sort of savant/freak of nature, which he isn't it will take years for him to develop.

    Past is prolog Dol-fan Dupree, the only worse position to draft #1 is either QB, or Lb.

    And even if Dorsey was Tim Bowens jr, he still would not be worth the #1 overall, it would be better to take a DE or even a OT at #1 if McF isn't our guy.
     
  35. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Tim Bowens was one of the main reasons Miami had such a dominate offense. If he is Tim Bowens with drive and decent pass rush then he is more than worth the #1 pick, which is from what I have read is worth it.

    There is about 3 positions that don't take years and two of them are in the secondary and the other is runningback.

    I am a firm believer in BPA in AoN. From what I have seen that is Dorsey. Great athlete, great attitude, great sound player. In an area that is REALLY of need.
     
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    .

    And that is one low bar DFD, we can do better then that with a #1 overall.

    Olineman and DE's as well.

    Great athlete? Reggie white and Jerome Brown but ran 4.6 40's, Dorsey is at 5.05 at 300 pds, atitude cannot be disputed in his case, and sound player for a DT means he doesn't get pushed off the ball...that's it...
     
  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    wow 40 time, such a great measure of a defensive tackle. Lets talk about his arm strength now and how far he can throw the ball.

    That is a very high bar. You cannot do much better with overall #1. There haven't been much better with overall #1.

    Offensive linemen take about 2 to 3 years. Same with defensive ends.
     
  38. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Richmond Webb was an all pro his first year.

    The 40 time is an idea of just what a "good athlete" can do..
     
  39. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    When that athlete is over 300 pounds you don't really expect them to run a sub 5 second 40.

    Yes and Marino was an awesome quarterback his first year and Dwight Stephenson was an amazing center. That doesn't mean it doesn't generally take a quarterback a few years to develop and a center is worth a top 10 pick.
     
  40. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Why? We have the first pick out of every player coming out this year, why can't we "expect them to run a sub 5 second 40"?

    And that is sort of one of the points about Dorsey..why settle, can't we do better then "he fits a need on the Dline"?

    That is what 3rd round picks are for...:up:


    Olineman start much faster then they used to, look at Carey and Satele for recent examples, if a Top Notch LT emerges, I would not be opposed to drafting him, Satele/Carey/ and say Clady would anchor our oline for years.
     

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