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Why You Should Believe in Matt Moore

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Dec 13, 2016.

  1. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Dude, not believing that Matt Moore gives us a better chance than a healthy Ryan Tannehill has nothing to do with insecurity.
     
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  2. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Fin O, I really do not expect you to go through over 200 posts nor do I expect you just to read of few of them to make a silly comment like you did about insecure Tanny fans coming out in bunches. We have almost every single Dolphin fan in here wishing Matt Moore well and hoping he plays lights out. Most conveyed exactly the same sentiments you made in your post. Some felt the OP was a bit effusive in some of his comments. Some felt he over reached with his comment that we have a better chance of going 3-0 with Moore than with Ryan. Most felt that a certain poster that came into the thread to crap all over Ryan was silly and unfounded. This same poster declared that ACTUAL DOLPHIN FANS wanted Moore to fail to feel better about Ryan....obviously ridiculous. Pretty much summarizes the whole thread. Really nothing about "insecure Tanny fans coming out in bunches". Nothing at all like that. We all want the playoffs. We all want Matt to play well.We are all behind this team NO MATTER who is at QB. No other agenda
     
  3. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    You are absolutely right and it also has nothing to do with my post, if you would like to reread it you would see where I said just that.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Some were saying he was elite, no question about that. Most of the so called haters pointed out what he needed to work on to get better, he has approved in some of those areas. What is concerning is he quickly reverted back to the bad forms in the Ravens game. Most QB's can be better if they have a better OL. better coaching, better RB, better WR.
     
  5. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    If it had nothing to do with your post, why put it in your post?
     
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  6. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Was it concerning to you that he quickly bounced back with a much better game vs the Cardinals? Was it concerning to you that he played well in 7 out of the last 8 weeks. Was it concerning to you that the ENTIRE team, barring 2-3 players, laid an egg in Baltimore? Or is it more concerning to you that a scant few think he is elite?...large majority of us do not. Any more concerning to you when some come out and say he stinks and we would be better off with the back up?....an overwhelming majority of us do not believe that at all
     
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  7. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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  8. Hiruma78

    Hiruma78 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    in the end, about RT, it happened exactly what Rafel, Fin D, Resnor said: when other parts of the team will be competent (not elite or very good, just competent enough) he will flourish.

    That's what happened.

    Now, you can argue if he is improved thanks to Gase, if it is because his feet movement improved, if he changed that or this or some other thing, but, in the end, what happened is objectively what the 3 guys (but I am surely forgettin someone and I apologize for that, like Aqua, Adamprez, etc) said it would happen: other parts of the teams became competent, the qb play improved at around at least top 10-12 level (enough to win with).

    About Moore, let's hope for the best, but the Original Post was (IMO, I mean no offense) almost funny in his "sober" assessment (ultimate leader, laughing after an intercept, teams that designated him as a franchise qb, the guys that were nuts about him, amazing presence - almost Manning like - in the film room, our chances to win increase after our starter qb went down), I am not sure even his mother has so much trust in him (and I suspect MM himslef has a more realistic evaluation of his skills).

    ps- I am re-watching the last game, damn, Barber is really unlistenable, weak voice, so many pauses that you are tempted to think that he is not sure about he wants to say and even some dumb takes IMO (like about the problems with the wet ball)

    And I want to say, I know that to be a sport voice (announcer or commentator) is much more difficult than one could think:I had an experience/tryout in the Italian tv that transmits NFL (like twenty years ago) and I realized that keeping the rythm, being informative, keeping track of down, distance, sub-package, formation etc etc, without being boring it is quite difficult, (you need some kind of flow and ability to transmit emotions, like a dj or something, otherwise you are Joe Zolpidem Buck), so I have much respect for the job, but damn...Barber was almost embarassing to me
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
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  9. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    it is concerning to be that some fans are quick to accept negative play. The D was bad, thus it is OK if the Offense plays bad too. The Other team had 4 turnovers, thus it is OK if our QB throws an INT and fumbles 3 times too.

    I think it is wonderful and amazing how the team is finding ways to win. I also want to see them do it against a team with a winning record.

    I don't understand the logic of how IF a backup QB comes in and wins 3 games, he is somehow a worse QB. If BOTH QB's can win 8 games, how is one QB better then the other? IF the backup QB were to come in and wins the Super Bowl is he worse? (This happened in NE for reference) I just find it interesting one group says another group is a hater group, yet it is ok for them to hate on another group that likes another QB. Again, I could care less which QB anyone likes.
     
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  10. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Honestly, who said it was ok for the offense to be bad because the Defense was bad...scant few..maybe. The problem is that 99% of the times the starting QB is the better player. Ryan is the starter. Has been the starter. The HC says he will be the starter when healthy again. Nothing wrong with liking the back up QB..nothing. I like him too, I think its a perfect role for him. Nobody is hating on another group because you like him. People just disagree vehemently in the assertion that Moore is better than Ryan right now...that is being silly. That is all. I can't think of another back up I would rather have right now than Moore. That is being honest. Anybody at this point thinks there is any possibility, even with a Super Bowl win, that there is any controversy is fooling themselves and only pushing their bias agenda
     
  11. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    The backup QB isnt the worse QB if 'he comes in and wins 3 games' he's the worse QB because he is the worse QB. I honestly dont even know what youre talking about anymore.

    Moore is the worse of the two QBs. ask anyone in the NFL. look at any stat you want. FFS ask Moore himself and he'd probably tell you he thinks Ryan should definitely start over him. Tannehill is better. its a fact. No one hates Moore for the 300th ****ing time. No one hates on you or anyone else for liking Moore so you can cut the victim bull**** out already. We all like Moore, no one cares if you do or don't. It's the over-the-top over glorification of Moore and the notion that we'd be better off with him instead that we find ridiculous. He is A *C A R E E R B A C K U P* FOR A REASON. If Moore was the better QB he would have been named the starter after one of the NUMEROUS chances he had to earn it. Make any excuse you want for him, bad luck, concussions, whatever, He is not better than RT.

    IF he wins 0 games hes not better than RT. if he wins the next 3 he's not better than RT. if he wins the superbowl he's not better than RT. These are facts. Tannehill is our starter and our QB. That's not changing. Gase said it himself and it should be common sense by now (it is to most of us). Barring anything injury related Tannehill will be under center next season game 1.

    Also not gonna lie. the New England/Brady comparison you keep bringing up might be the most asinine and ridiculous thing ive ever read. You're comparing a 1:1 ratio 9 year vet back up to arguably one of the greatest football players of all time. The situations aren't even in the same UNIVERSE as far as comparisons go. Moore is not some mystery 6th round flyer who will eventually replace a Bledsoe type and become GOAT and lead us to a dozen superbowls. He is who he is. we've had 9 years to see what he is. which is a BACK UP QB who ISNT ALL THAT GREAT, but a nice competitive guy who can string some wins together here and there. No reason to try and make him more than he is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
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  12. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Because wins aren't solely on the QB, but I think you'd know that after being on this site for however long you've been.

    Fact of the matter is, this HC chose Tannehill as his starter over Moore and so did the previous regime. Are they wrong, would Moore have been a better starter? Maybe... I personally value the opinion of the head coach more than the opinions of the average fan, at least until the HC proves to have been wrong. For example, if it were up to you, you would have made Doughty the number 1 QB, Moore the backup and Tannehill you would've probably cut...

    Hey, maybe Moore comes in and plays lights out, better than Tannehill has ever played in his life. Maybe he gets us to the playoffs, puts up elite QB numbers and wins the Super Bowl. I honestly think that's the ONLY way Moore would even be considered for the starting job. I wouldn't bank on that though.
     
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  13. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    I've been in the minority about Cam since he came into the league, but I personally thought and still think he's totally overrated. Tremendous athlete and massive potential but mentally I just never thought he had what it took to fulfill his potential. Of course last year it looked like he'd prove me wrong, but this year makes 2015 look like an anomaly.

    Well we'll see how his career turns out, but the question of how overrated Cam is for me is more interesting than talking about Luck (and I agree Luck hasn't lived up to that massive hype.. he's good but not great) because somehow the perception persists that Cam is this great QB despite not so great performances outside of 2015. His stats over the years are one good piece of evidence for that:
    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00.htm
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
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  14. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I'm gonna disagree with tannehill doesn't throw with anticipation...I find that to be a fabrication off my tape studies...this offense is throwing to a spot anyways primarily based which is trust in your receiver options both reading it like you do and running it according to leverage and coverage played etc. you have to anticipate at qb to execute this offense at the high level. also the red zone is where anticipation is key and tannehill wouldn't be shredding those numbers in condensed field scenarios if he wasn't anticipating. throwing guys open is also something he does which leads to more rac but that's also about ball placement which tannehills I have found to be just about as good as any qb in the league in terms of relative to leverage and with the receiver able to rac. proper shoulder etc

    I do agree with Andrew luck is seriously overrated. he gets the biggest pass at qb in the league. tannehill is the most underappreciated qb in the league. hell that lamb chops clown on nfl.com that does the qb index ratings has tannehill the 24th rated qb in the league. what's greg Rosenthal smoking? he doesn't know qb play and evaluation from a hole in the ground

    also part of cam newtons problems this year is in the past the panthers have used him as a lead power back which lead to more hard contact and it finally catching up with him being concussed earlier this season...since then he's been more gun shy and the panthers have resorted to less use of the qb as a ball carrier when in years past he has carried that offense as a ball carrier as much or more than he did with his arm even in terms of situational play calls. plus he's been able to live in 6 and 7 man protects on the los due to the running game threat and the defense in the past and as a result been given a lot of good looks in the passing game to exploit with teams selling out vs the run so much. he rarely saw drop out zone coverage. similar to Russell Wilson in that regard when tannehill in years past due to inability to run the ball or protect the qb or have a defense that shut down the opposition found himself chasing not only the scoreboard but the sticks and teams were getting to the qb before his back foot even rushing 4 and dropping 7 and no qb can have high level sustained success in that scenario
     
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  15. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    Do you mean to tell me that other QBs in the NFL aren't perfect every week and are still considered franchise type players? I for one am shocked.
     
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  16. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    I would happily go along with the idea that Moore is a better QB than Tanny if he wins us a Super Bowl. I might even believe it. :)
     
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  17. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    I've thought Cam Newton was overrated as well, but I've changed my mind over the past year or so. The thing is Newton is not a traditional QB... you have to take into account what he does while running the ball, it's a whole nother dimension that most QB's don't have. He has tons of redzone TD's running the ball that IMO you need to account for when evaluating his play.
     
  18. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    yes cam has those red zone tds off power. the only reason they got away with that for so long was the fact cam is a rocked up tight end playing qb

    you take that away from his game though and the actual pocket qb play in terms of reads and progressions warts show up more...also at times he has had lower leg injuries which have fubarred his mechanics and lead to the ball sailing plus he's never had ideal mechanics but relied on basically his arm which is a absolute cannon which has gotten him in trouble at times

    I also don't like how he of late blames everyone but himself. something tannehill could have done the last 3 years of incompetence frankly but never said one word.
     
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  19. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    and trust me when you put a qb who ids coverage and accounts for the blitzers with the protections at the level tannehill does and did under Sherman in a qb neutered all motion based coverage id which means no check outs or audibles based off what the d shows at the los pre snap due to once motion starts you can't stop it you are seriously INCOMPETENT

    and worse we even ran that trash off no tempo based offense allowing the opposition to match personnel on a by down basis even

    remember all those boots into the wide 9 edge rusher under lazor? the ones that got Miami to pay mario williams $9 mil per year off pretty much when he was in buffalo? tannehill saw those pre snap just like he saw the slot show blitzers etc but he had zero freedom to check out and his protections freedom was all alert based to slant down the protection to pick up show gap blitzers

    how many delayed none show up the middle lb blitzers got to the qb in those scenarios either flushing him or hitting him as his back foot hit even? none show blitzers the qb isn't responsible for and lazors offense and protection scheme evidently had no answer for. I stopped counting

    they basically cut off the qbs nuts...I don't know how he didn't throw all of them under the bus for it...I know damn well I would have...at the time the talk was that the qb "couldn't handle it" as in the freedom at the los I'm sure there was plenty of debates here about that and I hope this year showed all of you that was complete and utter nonsense
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
  20. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I agree that a lot of the young QBs aren't that great, probably due in large part to the changing nature of college football offenses, but you left one off: Carr. He's done pretty well this season. As for Luck, he's a bit hamstrung by having absolute crap for talent around him.
     
  21. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    give me some examples of being late cause for my money his foot work and drops and progressions thru the route combos relative to the drops have been pretty spot on

    if you are "late" you'd have more guys jumping balls and cutting in front of receiver options for the rock. also anticipation is holding a safety so you can work another area with your eyes in your drop etc also and I have seen plenty of instances of tannehill doing just that or looking to the flats to influence the seam coverage to hit a sims for instance which he did just a few weeks ago vs Baltimore even.

    now if you want back shoulder in the vertical stem stuff I think you need to understand that those things come with comfort and familiarity in the offense and the route concepts and Miami under gase is running more double moves more vertical concepts but they take time and game reps and practice reps vs coverage looks to find that comfort level.

    as far as not throwing to a spot we will agree to disagree cause gase has even said so and while there are primary pre determined throws in the offense which are even at times he has one pre determined option even the standard drops ie 5 and 7 step work is coverage id ie man vs zone and progression and anticipation based

    there are definitely clear outs run designed to take coverage with them but everyone runs those types of things and they are also coverage played based...a lot of the clear outs come off pa where we want to hit the intermediate crosser level with Jarvis landry for instance...although there aren't as many clear outs as there were under lazor in his short passing game based offense

    those things under lazor especially were more offense designed than qb designed
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
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  22. Big Phin

    Big Phin Member

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    Matt Moore is a solid backup to have. It could be much worse. He's a vet with some starting experience and not many teams have that "luxury". I hope, like all of Phins fans, he does well.
     
  23. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    carrs good...he has good feet...he climbs the pocket well vs wide pressure...but he also doesn't have years of muscle memory with his guards in his lap every time he took a drop making him hesitant to climb cause the raiders were competent enough not to let him get murdered with outside and inside pressure...

    it's amazing to me considering how much contact tannehill has taken thru the years that he one is so willing to stand in there and deliver but two doesn't stare at the rush

    he's a rare breed.
     
  24. dolfaniss

    dolfaniss Junior Member

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    Found you :). Wanted your insight on this weeks game. I know you hate Moore jut wondering if you think we'll be able to win. You must be pleased with the Tanny news, hopefully we see him again this year.
     
  25. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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    I'm a big believer in Tannehill, but if Moore wins the Super Bowl and has a late career resurgence a la Rich Gannon, then of course by all means, Moore should start. I just don't find this very likely, but I'd be stoked if it happened.
     
  26. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    yep I remember that ball...I wasn't in love with that route but I will give you that one...I don't think it's enough of a trend off what I have seen though to paint him with that brush

    the other thing is stills is inconsistent with his coverage reads...one ball vs Baltimore in particular ball looked too far inside db leverage the entire time was outside stills for some reason cuts/curls outside into the coverage at the top of the route when it looked like given the leverage and depth of the db early in the stem etc that it should have been either a sticks stop route or a come back...he gets one hand on it and it looks like a poor throw when really it's a poor route and coverage read by the wr
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
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  27. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I never said or mentioned Moore in that post at all. Nor had any thought of Moore in that post. I simply said that SOME people seem to find it ok for one thing to occur as an excuse for something else to occur.

    I am sure the coach does not say ok boys it is raining outside today thus it is ok if you fumble. Nor do I think the coach would say dang the D sucks today offense, it is ok for you to suck too.
     
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  28. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    Can't believe this thread is still going on. Imagine if the Dolphins actually had a quarterback controversy?
     
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  29. NyPhinfan

    NyPhinfan Season Ticket Holder

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    You just touched on my biggest concern when it comes to Matt Moore. Its not his gambling or lack of elusiveness...it is his durability. We have been spoiled with Tannehill in that he stayed healthy and bounced back up every time. If Moore gets hurt, we are in a world of trouble with Yates. They have to be able to protect Moore and Matt has to be smart also
     
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  30. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    When he took over for DunderHenne in 2011 - he was sacked 36 times and was fine.
     
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  31. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    He was also 5 years younger and on the other side of 30, and more used to getting hit. I just hope the line can keep him relatively safe back there...would hate to see 2 QBs go down in consecutive weeks. Not saying he's a wuss...I just hope he don't need to shake off a bunch of hits, possibly garnering another concussion.

    I hope nothing more than for him to light it up for the next 7 games.
     
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  32. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy Club Member

    I understand what you're talking about regarding long term success. I think Travis has put together some really nice reads with video evidence to back it up. Not bad for season one.
     
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  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But the definition of "factually unfounded" here seems to be anything that you don't agree with. That type of logic makes me "factually dumbfounded".
     
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  34. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I never said he didn't. I have nothing against Travis.
     
  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    What of their typical complaints is factually founded?
     
  36. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Heehee, I'm not going to take the bait. There are very few factually founded statements about Tannehill to be found. For instance, did you know he got credited with the worst pass in the history of football last week?



    It's amazing that hasn't been a topic here since we're so factual and all.
     
  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    I honestly don't understand your point.
     
  38. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    My point is that on a forum that's been 95% pro-Tannehill from the start, the good stuff is counted as facts. The bad stuff is counted as anything but facts. That's why we can't talk about Matt Moore apparently.
     
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  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Ok, so like I asked what negative stuff was fact based?

    Deep ball problems being mostly on Thill? "It" factor? Clutch? Line wasn't the problem? Audibling is not relevant?
     
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  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I would like the 95% pro-Tannehill from the start fact checked.
     

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