Will Davis...combine workout in full

"MrClean wrote:

That's one thing I always appreciated about Vontae Davis. He was never shy about flying upfield in run support and cutting down a back before he could get very far.

Still recall the Vikings game where he made a heck of a stick, got up and flexed..and pulled a chest muscle!

THAT was funny!

As for Willie Davis, for goodness sakes at least aim at shoe tops!

"padre31 wrote:

Still recall the Vikings game where he made a heck of a stick, got up and flexed..and pulled a chest muscle!

THAT was funny!

As for Willie Davis, for goodness sakes at least aim at shoe tops!

Exactly. One of the oldest adages in football is low man wins. That's how Vontae usually did it. Went in low and cut their legs from under them.

1) Best use is probably as a dime back (or nickel slot, though I am reluctant to even say that) as it would minimize his weak tackling hurting us, but make the most of his ball skills and change of direction.

2) Am I crazy to suggest we try him as a lot reciever in camp too? Great hands, amazing quickness.

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His tackling is quite alarming. He's not a big guy, but I have seen same size or smaller at least give a good effort. Don't see that here

No doubt he has the coverage skills. Very very fluid and decisive. This kid could pick quite a few if he sees the field IMO

Somebody mentioned that Patton had a concussion during the game that KB has included, so that needs to be taken into account.

"Mcduffie81 wrote:

Wow. His change of direction looks lethal! Watch him back peddle than burst forward. My knees are crying watching that.

Good skillset for zone and off man. Something Sean Smith didn't have.

"djphinfan wrote:

The kid has 2nd round talent...

I think it's hilarious to hear Mccshay talk about how Patton schooled Davis during their matchup.

Anyone who watches every rep in that game would never tell you that it was one sided..it was obvious that Davis completely shut out Patton in the first half, he was hyped, he was on his toes, was fiery, and no one was getting anything on him, to the point where pattons coaches moved him to the other side so he could get his first catch, and he did.

When Idaho was up 21/28 points most of the 2nd half, their coaches put that defense in a prevent, and Patton tore it up..Davis lost his mojo..but when the game was at its most competitive,Mano e Mano, Davis was dominant..I don't know what happened at the senior bowl, but maybe the kid has a problem staying motivated idk.

I agree he was very competitive vs Patton. The one thing I saw was his confidence. He had the belief that he could out play whoever he was lined up against. That is something that a CB has to have and he had lots of it. But going to the Senior Bowl maybe he wasn't as sure. You have very little time to get your head right in that setting. If you are a player that reads too many press clippings you are reading how you are the best at what you do in your settings, and start to believe them because they happen to be right. Then you go to some where like the Senior Bowl and everyone is telling you that you aren't top 5 and it starts to get in your head that you aren't good enough. If a couple of his first plays goes against him suddenly it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. You lose confidence and don't have time to make enough plays to start getting your head right. Might sound crazy, but these are 20 yr old kids, it happens.

Wasn't crazy about the pick, but am warming up to it. He has a lot of bad habits that have to be broken. He baits a lot of WRs because he knows he has the speed and acceleration to catch up to make the play. That won't be the case at the NFL level. I was also not impressed with his willingness to stick his nose in on running plays. He was very content to let someone else make the plays in the running game, but some times being a big fish in a small pond makes players feel they don't have to do the little things.

I disagree with those who say he is raw and will take time to develope. To me he will be a "boom or bust". You will see him flash early, by some of the preseason games, or he will fall into being a very average to below average player. He is the kind of player that has to feel special. Either he will come out and make plays and prove he has what it takes at this level or he will get on the bad side of the staff by trying to make plays and start losing confidence. As you well know all play making CBs usually gets on the nerves of most coaching staffs, because to make plays you have to take chances, and when you gamble and it goes wrong, coaches don't soon forget.

I have high hopes but I am going to keep them reserved. I stick by my prediction that if he hasn't made a few plays in some of the preseason game, HIS FIRST YEAR, that we won't see much out of him ever. Flame me if you want but that is the way I see it.

"azfinfanmang wrote:

His tackling is quite alarming. He's not a big guy, but I have seen same size or smaller at least give a good effort. Don't see that here

No doubt he has the coverage skills. Very very fluid and decisive. This kid could pick quite a few if he sees the field IMO

Somebody mentioned that Patton had a concussion during the game that KB has included, so that needs to be taken into account.

That is exactly what I saw as well. Very content to remain blocked, and very little effort when not blocked. Horrible form on some of his tackles. Lunged from several yards away with no chance of making the tackle, no strength shown in wrapping up. Players seemed to run right threw him even when he did give effort. I haven't seen how many tackles he made, but even considering he was probably the best player on that defense, I would guess he was in the bottom 3-5 on that team in tackles.

"Bpk wrote:

1) Best use is probably as a dime back (or nickel slot, though I am reluctant to even say that) as it would minimize his weak tackling hurting us, but make the most of his ball skills and change of direction.

2) Am I crazy to suggest we try him as a lot reciever in camp too? Great hands, amazing quickness.

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If he doesn't like to be the one doing the hitting I can't imagine he would enjoy being the one getting hit.

"GMJohnson wrote:

Good skillset for zone and off man. Something Sean Smith didn't have.

I liked SS24, thought that scheme had to help cover up for some of the things he did not do well

"NolePhin15 wrote:

His tackling and block shedding do need work though.

Work? I don't think anyone ever told him he's allowed to do such things.

"NCFINFAN wrote:

Very content to remain blocked, and very little effort when not blocked.

This cannot be coached, taught, practiced.

You have to be very prudent with players who are afraid to hit or get hit. These are busts. Cover, speed, hands, fluidity; these mean nothing if you are hesitant about playing football. And if a player is timid of contact in college, what do you hypothesize the result will be when the opposition becomes bigger, stronger? Kovacs and Clay are football players. In comparison, Will Davis might as well be a ballerina.

Will Davis was not- absolutely not- worth trading back up for. This is not a hit on Ireland. He admits to panicking when the players on his board began to disappear and the move was in the best interest of a team in severe lack of DB talent. The good news is that if you are going to have a starter that cowards away from contact, the best position you can have him play is CB. And the core abilities that are needed in a corner, Davis does seem to possess.

"Drowning wrote:

This cannot be coached, taught, practiced.

You have to be very prudent with players who are afraid to hit or get hit. These are busts. Cover, speed, hands, fluidity; these mean nothing if you are hesitant about playing football. And if a player is timid of contact in college, what do you hypothesize the result will be when the opposition becomes bigger, stronger? Kovacs and Clay are football players. In comparison, Will Davis might as well be a ballerina.

Will Davis was not- absolutely not- worth trading back up for. This is not a hit on Ireland. He admits to panicking when the players on his board began to disappear and the move was in the best interest of a team in severe lack of DB talent. The good news is that if you are going to have a starter that cowards away from contact, the best position you can have him play is CB. And the core abilities that are needed in a corner, Davis does seem to possess.

Not so, there is a host of Cb's who are starters in the league who have the same disdain for contact.

Antonio Cromartie comes to mind.

"padre31 wrote:

Not so, there is a host of Cb's who are starters in the league who have the same disdain for contact.

Antonio Cromartie comes to mind.

Come on padre, Cromartie went 19. You make allowances for such talents. Take our very own Dion Jordan as an example.

Lets not get sensitive Dolfans. I did type that if there is a position where lack of contact is acceptable, it's CB.

"padre31 wrote:

Not so, there is a host of Cb's who are starters in the league who have the same disdain for contact.

Antonio Cromartie comes to mind.

Yeah, actually that's a great guy to bring up.

We all saw him jump the opposite direction when Ronnie Brown was headed towards the end zone. At that time, he was the WORST tackler in the league. That includes kickers, punters and moscats. He has recently been able to change that.

"Drowning wrote:

Come on padre, Cromartie went 19. You make allowances for such talents. Take our very own Dion Jordan as an example.

Lets not get sensitive Dolfans. I did type that if there is a position where lack of contact is acceptable, it's CB.

Not at all, I'm being objective.

I personally prefer Cb's who can tackle and create fumbles over the 'pure cover corner", but let us no pretend that every Cb has to be Pat Fisher or they won't play well.

"padre31 wrote:

Not at all, I'm being objective.

I personally prefer Cb's who can tackle and create fumbles over the 'pure cover corner", but let us no pretend that every Cb has to be Pat Fisher or they won't play well.

Sam Madison comes to mind. That guy was a very poor at tackling.

Well with our front 7 he hopefully shouldnt have to do much tackling. You also have to take into account the new rule changes this year. Those big bruising RB's cant drop their head and run people over like they used to do.

"padre31 wrote:

Not at all, I'm being objective.

I personally prefer Cb's who can tackle and create fumbles over the 'pure cover corner", but let us no pretend that every Cb has to be Pat Fisher or they won't play well.

Nothing to pretend about, padre. I agree. Said so in my post. You can resist a poor tackler at CB. The problem is Davis Is more than a poor tackler. Read his body language. The kid doesn't like to get dirty in a game that's played in the dirt.

And Sam Madison was a poor tackler. He was not hesitant about sticking his nose in it.

Don't forget that the GOAT cover corner was also one of the worst tacklers ever too.

"NolePhin15 wrote:

Don't forget that the GOAT cover corner was also one of the worst tacklers ever too.

You talking about my neighbor :shifty:

Deion couldn't tackle, but let's ground ourselves here. He didn't need to very often.

"Drowning wrote:

Nothing to pretend about, padre. I agree. Said so in my post. You can resist a poor tackler at CB. The problem is Davis Is more than a poor tackler. Read his body language. The kid doesn't like to get dirty in a game that's played in the dirt.

And Sam Madison was a poor tackler. He was not hesitant about sticking his nose in it.

Sam Madison was hesitant about sticking his nose in it, so was T-Buck, and so is A. Cromartie. Even the great Deion Sanders looked like a sissy when trying to make a tackle.

There are plenty of really good cornerbacks who look like they are allergic to contact.

While I do prefer my cornerbacks to like to tackle and put in great effort, I am not going to cover my eyes and pretend everyone is Vontae Davis. There are plenty of Sean Smiths in the league who look like they would rather be selling flowers than making a tackle.

Willie Davis was a big play corner last season. He had more interceptions then all of Miami's corner's combined. He even had two in the redzone. He also had two plays where you could say they were game winning break ups.

The more I read about him, the more I am convinced he is worth a lower 3rd round pick.

"azfinfanmang wrote:

You talking about my neighbor :shifty:

Deion couldn't tackle, but let's ground ourselves here. He didn't need to very often.

Teams ran the ball when he played

"MrClean wrote:

IMO, you don't find many corners more disinterested in run support, if that game is indicative of his play in general.

Sam Madison comes to mind ....just saying

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Sam Madison comes to mind. That guy was a very poor at tackling.

You beat me to it. Deion was also notorious poor in run support.

"VManis wrote:

Sam Madison comes to mind ....just saying

IMO, Madison looked like Night Train Lane compared to Will Davis when it comes to tackling.