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Will the OL be our weak link again?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Aug 17, 2022.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  2. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Will be watching for news on Austin Jackson, Greg Little and Terron.
    Terron came back in so hopefully he's good to go. Word is that Austin Jackson is still being evaluated. Little I'm not sure of. Hard to find any solid info on him.
     
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  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Digging back a little bit, Around the Block had a piece on Eichenberg at the end of last season:

    https://atbnetwork.com/2021/11/18/whats-going-on-with-liam-eichenberg/

    Lots of clips in the article, take a look, here's a TLDR:

    "So how is it that a Notre Dame OL prospect, a school known as the OL factory, has given up 44 pressures and leads the league in sacks given up?"

    "“Could struggle gaining early depth with kick slides versus NFL speed.

    Timing, hand placement and body control all need work in pass sets.

    High hands easily swatted and discarded.

    Punch is monotonous and predictable.

    Needs to eliminate punch hitch and diversify his attacks on rushers.

    Reaches looking for two-hand contact rather than sitting back and ripping it.

    Has a tendency to play too far forward when seeking moving targets.

    One-pop hitter, allowing rushers secondary opportunities”"

    "The main issue with Eichenberg is that he pushes forward against faster edge rushers which allows defenders to hit that extra gear and get home.

    The root cause? His stance."
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    "Throughout the NFL season Eichenberg’s stance has worsened. He’s playing with a higher pad level. In the trenches it’s said, the low man always wins.

    In the NFL, there are much more powerful rushers compared to college. I would understand why Eichenberg’s base and stance has been altered to get more drive out of his body. However, this leads to him playing to high. Thus, the result making him lose his one-on-one battles and giving up more pressures."

    "This is not only an Eichenberg issue, it an issue amongst the entire offensive line, especially the younger lineman. It will take some growing pains for Eichenberg to hold down the fort. It has not helped that he has had to play multiple positions on this line for several weeks."

    "If Eichenberg continues to show the same struggles at left tackle it might be better to move him to right tackle or as a guard."

    "After all, his former college coach thinks he would be a fit at right tackle in the NFL.

    “Those who are going to draft him are going to get a plug-and-play guy on the right side. He’s probably not a left tackle. If you’re talking about that kind of athleticism, you could make the case that maybe he’s not a left tackle. At the right tackle position, you plug him in and he plays right away in the NFL because of his consistency, because he’s going to be there every single day.”
    Brian Kelly on Liam Eichenberg"

    "One positive of Eichenberg play is that he does well when his hand is on the ground and he has to push people around and move up to the second level. Whether it be in the ground game or in passing sets."
     
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  4. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    All fair points. Basically what that's saying in full, is that Eichenberg is struggling to adjust to NFL speed so he's playing higher & moving quicker. But by doing that, he's losing leverage and getting beat.

    The solution isn't easy, it's not a quick fix and you're good. He has to play lower. He has to get off the ball faster. He has to stay at home in pass protect instead of taking that first step and letting faster players get by with their agility.

    The good news is that I think he can do it, he has the talent to do it, and he has the right coaching around him to bring it all together. But this is going to be a learning process and not an overnight transformation.
     
  5. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Positive in week 1:


    Horrible negative:


    And just found this nugget posted last year...
     
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  6. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    The Dolphins OL problems certainly started before Grier got the big job, but he obviously hasn't fixed them either. Its almost bizarre how one franchise can absolutely suck at one area like that for such an extended time.

    Worth noting that in his time as the team's director of college scouting from 2003-15, nearly every OL that we drafted was either a bust or frequently injured also. Vernon Carey, the team's first 1st round pick after he took over, was probably the biggest success who didn't fall into either category. And since his career ended after the 2011 season, its been almost a complete disaster zone.

    How does a team fail so terribly for nearly twenty years unless the people in charge are just horrible at their jobs?
     
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  7. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To be fair, it is a tough position to evaluate since the jump from college to pros is probably the largest of any group. With that said though, there's been so many obvious 1st and 2nd rounders we could have grabbed.
     
  8. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Jake Long was by far the biggest success. Then again a #1 pick at OL should almost never be a total bust, like you sometimes see at QB (there's never been a #1 pick bust like Jamarcus Russell at OT!).
     
  9. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    But he was hurt. So I threw him into that side. Horribly short career, sadly
     
  10. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    I don't disagree, but as was said, we have been the very worst at it. That means that they've been doing something very wrong.
     
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  11. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Not for us. Long started 74 games out of 80 in 5 seasons. That's a 92.5% availability rate. The average for a starting OL in the NFL is 14.4 games available out of 16, or 90%. So no, Long doesn't fit into the frequently injured category, at least not for the Dolphins. His injury issues seriously affected his availability rate from his 2nd year in St. Louis.
     
  12. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Grier has had a major influence on our drafting decisions since at least 2003, and our drafting has not gotten any better as he moved up to GM, in fact it's gotten worse, so my conclusion is Grier and his scouts are the main problem here.

    For some weird reason Ross seems to have a soft spot for Grier and has kept him on even after many years of failure and outright disasters. How Grier escapes any responsibility for the Flores fiasco is beyond me.
     
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  13. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    Five years out of the first overall pick just isn't enough. And there were signifigant portions of years 4 and 5 where his play was lower quality because he was active but hurt. Lets not ignore reality for black and white numbers.
     
  14. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Carey wasn't better. If you're putting Carey into the "not frequently injured" category then Long gets into that too. Carey gave us 7 years. Long lasted 6.5 years. So yeah.. Long was by far the best OL pick by Grier.. again, not much of an accomplishment with a #1 pick, but still.
     
  15. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't matter if it's a tough position to evaluate, Grier sucks at it worse than anyone. And BTW it's not just his olinemen evaluations that are bad, friendly reminder that we could have picked Justin Herbert, Justin Jefferson, and Jonathan Taylor with our three first round picks in 2020, instead of Tua, Jackson, and freaking igbinogene.

    We also could have had Mark Andrews over Gessicki at tight end. Imagine our offense with Herbert, Jefferson, Taylor and Andrews. Along with the Flores built defense we'd be super bowl contenders right now. But no, instead of identifying the real problem which is Grier, we scapegoated flores and will continue the disfunction.
     
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  16. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    Man, I wanted Andrews. And I didn't even think he'd be as good as he's been!
     
  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To be fair, Long played over a season for us with an injured shoulder and a leg problem (calf? I can't remember). He should have sat half a season and got that stuff cleaned up, and he did still do well as a starter despite that stuff. It just cut his career short by a number of years.
     
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  18. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    We could have drafted Mahomes too! What an idiot!
     
  19. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Point is, given what we know Long and Carey did over 7 years, no person in their right mind is selecting Carey over Long to build an OL assuming the price is the same, and in this discussion we're only considering "ability" here. That includes the sub-par performances for Long, of which btw Carey had a bunch of too.
     
  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, I didn't mean that at all- Long was clearly the best player in that draft and we did well to grab him. We just should have had the guy get surgery when he needed it instead of playing hurt for so long. His game/snap numbers are great but they're sort of a lie as well; he shouldn't have been playing hurt and risk career ending injury.
     
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  21. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    Absolutely. As you said, his games played are very misleading. He wasn't "Jake Long" that whole time.
     
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  22. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    We never had a shot at drafting Mahomes. He went 10th overall in 2017 and we picked freaking Charles Harris over TJ Watt with the 22nd pick that year remember? What is your point? We did however have a shot at drafting Watt, Herbert, Jefferson, Taylor, and Andrews, but decided to pass on all of them in favor of mediocre players or outright busts.

    Super bowl teams are mostly built through the draft. We've sucked at drafting for 20 years now with Grier leading the scouts or being GM, which is precisely why the team has sucked for so long as well. People normally lose their jobs for sucking at it for so long, but not in Miami with idiot Ross as owner, no. His love affair with Grier and our suffering as dolphins fans will continue.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2022
  23. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Well-Known Member

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    I just had a thought, did the O-Line give up a sack today? The only sack I remember was Smythe's fault.
     
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  24. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    That's what's been reported.
     
  25. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    The Ravens are listed in the stat sheet as having only the one sack for 8 yards.
     
  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    And that was given up by Smythe
     
  27. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Armstead is a brick wall.
     

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