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Winning Football!! Keep your personal problems & political activism at home

Discussion in 'Out of Bounds' started by Titleguru, Sep 25, 2017.

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  1. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I didn't understand this post at all.

    You said Tebow was blasted beyond belief for kneeling. I said not only was he not blasted, but it literally became a craze.
     
  2. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    in the words of Samuel L Jackson "English M*********er Do you speak it" LOL I said he was condemned for kneeling as the topic is on kneeling for the anthem, he was blasted for kneeling for the anthem, the craze was his kneeling after a td"
     
  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yes, it can be written about every race because every race has had to go through racism and have the same things said about them that is being said now about blacks, Mexicans, muslims, etc.

    I have some interesting numbers too.

    http://www.snopes.com/do-police-kill-more-whites-than-black-people/
    This is a percentage issue and black people are 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police than white people.

    https://mappingpoliceviolence.org
    30% of black people killed by police were unarmed in 2015 versus only 21% of white victims.
    Fewer than 1 in 3 black people killed by police were suspected of a major crime.
     
  4. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    He was not blasted nor was he blackballed for it, like CKap is. Ckap is a better QB skill wise than Tebow and Tebow was given several chances, while CKap has not.
     
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  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    There is literally no validity to your attempt to make an athlete more important than POTUS. That is flailing.

    I'm starting nothing. I didn't invent this problem. I already posted numbers in previous post, you are free to go there.

    I never said only white people say anything. Again, you're the one inventing things.
     
  6. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    then why was your argument leaned only at that side of the story clearly me and DAN both seen it that way so its not me man.
     
  7. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    tebow was a winner and proven winner, I think the problem in lies cap is doing for a racially charged statement and tebow was doing for "his faith"? possibly? and he was blasted not blackballed. You have to admit signing cap is a PR nightmare and so much drama behind it kinda like if someone were to sign ray rice sometimes its just not worth it for a team and that's what you have to look at.
     
  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    WADR, you are so close to seeing the problem....

    All CKap did was kneel to bring attention to a problem that is actually real with real numbers to back up and signing him is as bad as signing Ray Rice who actually committed crimes.
     
  9. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    What i remember is Kaepernick sat down, and then a military veteran suggested he should kneel to protest, said something like by kneeling youre still honoring the military. So its not like Kaepernick came up with the idea to kneel, a veteran told him to kneel. People have forgotten that small fact.
     
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  10. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    DUDE you don't get the point all I said was it was a PR nightmare for either one of them not flipping they did the samething, I can see how your thought process is; on that note think your way like everyone else in the country and lets get back to football!!!
     
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yes I understood your point. But what you're not seeing is that it is insane that CKap is an equal PR nightmare to Ray Rice.
     
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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  13. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Agree he shouldn't have said the firing part. But him as President being pissed off at the disrespect to our Country and Vets whether intended or not was not wrong and I agree with it and think he does have every right to express his opinion." Different set of rules" What rules are you talking about ....ones you made up. Well isn't that convenient.

    Also feel that the players have a right to express their feeling just feel its a dumb place to do it because it only creates even more conflict...Did any of these guys go out in the communities and help or is the 1 minute their allowed time for concern. Think maybe working with the kids promoting education doing actual things of substance.....Oh I forgot, wrong generation lol....

    Funny there are no laws, it just used to be a natural expression of gratitude and understanding of the HUGE sacrifices made by the heros who gave everything they had You know THEIR LIVES!!!! and I feel even though yes not a law, that people would have enough feeling and sensitivity to understand the sacrifices made and not disrespect them in any way but then I guess Im old school with some level of human dignity and understanding of what they've done for ALL OF US....

    Be nice to have all held responsible for miss doings also be nice if cops were not needed to the extent to also put their lives on the line all the time (overlooked today) to save the thousand they help every year .... Oh 120 something blacks killed by blacks so far in Chicago, shhhhhhhh. Wheres the up roar, injustice....what the F .... don't hear a thing about that and WERE TALKING HUNDREDS of .Blacks killing their own...wheres the justice for that ...didn't hear a thing from any of those football millionaires about that...... What that just goes over your head ?

    hypocrites.....

    ignorance is ignorance &
    stupid still stupid
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Stop. You are going over the top here.

    The different set of rules is that when Trump tweets or speaks those become official positions. There is no separation of the person and the president. He has real and significant power. The POTUS is not a regular citizen. Also, this is the same person who insulted all POWs and dodged the draft, he doesn't have the moral ground to speak from in regards to respecting soldiers and their sacrifice.

    Kneeling is gratitude. And again, I bet the vast majority of the people complaining aren't standing for the anthem when they are watching it home. But regardless exercising the rights the soldiers fought for is the ultimate form of respect. I honestly don't care who a person is, but if they fought for the country simply so people will salute the flag and anthem then they made their sacrifices for the wrong reasons and that is their fault and burden, not mine nor anyone else's.

    It is bizarre to me how so many people who generally fall into the small government side of things is ok about the leader of the free world doing what he's doing. I'm also shocked that so many of those same people who are pro gun because they fear government over reach and want to be able to protect themselves, aren't out there protesting the use of unnecessary deadly force on the citizens.

    But anyway, you were saying about hypocrisy?
     
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  15. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    I want to ask you a question and answer this honestly I have many friends who are dirty I mean LOL cops and I use this question a lot to people with your stance on the police.

    If I told you hey your going to stop 100 people and 4 of them are going to try and inflict bodily harm to you but im not going to tell which ones. how would you react? you would be on edge for all 100 not just 4. so until you know what they go through we/you cant really speak on what should or could be done. just like in football I can sit on my couch and call a perfect game because of replays etc but in real times its a lot different.

    and if you want to get 100% technical Title 36 of the US Flag Code, Section 301 stats that "everyone present" shall stand and look at the flag with their right hand over their heart and uniformed personnel shall stand and solute the flag, so why does it matter if im at home and not standing I am not "present" where its getting played so your point means nothing.

    isn't their more deadly force on citizens in communities than the cops inflict? living in southern California I know for a fact there's people getting shot daily that never makes the news or national news for that fact just like every other major city, guns are to help protect yourself from unlawful citizens not cops. why guns was even brought into this is beyond me!!!!
     
  16. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    what does it matter if one is as severe as the other all I said was they are both pr nightmares your trying to make a positive out of something im not even saying. all I said was they would both be pr nightmares and full of drama I never said ray rice and cap would both have 86% drama.
     
  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Your hypothetical question is great and all, but the numbers don't lie...a black person is 2.5 times more likely to be shot by cops and even more than that to be pulled over and questioned. These aren't hypothetical, these are cold hard facts. No one's hypotheticals override those.

    I see if you're at a sporting event then, and they are playing a recorded anthem, you don;t need to stand, because it wasn't;t being performed in your current location? Interesting.

    You really don't understand the difference between citizen on citizen violence versus government on citizen violence? Really?
     
  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You don't think there's a problem that kneeling for the anthem creates as much of a PR nightmare as beating your spouse?
     
  19. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME? ALL I SAID IS THEY ARE BOTH PR NIGHTMARES WHAT DONT YOU GET ABOUT THAT. I never said cap was the same as beating your spouse, and to be technical which your not good at he didn't "beat her" he threw a roy jones right hook lol!!!
     
  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Calm down, I'm not being difficult, you're just not reading what is being written.

    I'm not accusing you of anything.

    I'm simply saying there's a problem when Event X and Event Y both cause such intense PR nightmares that neither party can get a job, when Event X is a minor small thing and Event Y is huge criminal problem.

    Also, I am being far more technical than you have been. You tried to play off that the POTUS and a sports celebrity have the same amount of responsibility, for example.

    There is nothing funny about what Rice did. The semantics you're pulling on that makes no sense in regards to this discussion.
     
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  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Why are you insulting me?

    You are conflating two completely separate issues and want me to apply the same thoughts to both. It makes no sense.

    Do you or do you not understand the difference and problems with civilian on civilian violence versus government on civilian violence?
     
  22. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    I really don't want to discuss political stuff with you any more. We are just so far apart and I think minds being blow at each others thought level of insight on both side. I'll stick with the football stuff with ya, where I think we can have some logical level of communication. I've delete the last post sorry if I insulted you but politics have a tendency to drive me crazy when I see a certain level of expression...have a nice day D
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
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  23. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Playing with incomplete numbers doesn't mean much. Black people have more contact with police. This is a fact. It's like saying that sharks only eat people in the water and ...well, duh! lol

    Cops need better training. Police Depts need better protocols. This doesn't excuse the black population of their wrongdoings, however. If you were to replace every black community with white people, but didn't change the culture, we'd still be seeing what we are seeing except white people would be getting arrested and shot at the same rates..
     
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  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I think you just hit the nail on the head but probably don't realize it.

    Yes, black people do have more interaction with cops....why do you think that is?

    Also, earlier you dismissed what the Fire Chief said as dumb and we shouldn't listen to it. But let me ask you, do you really think a person like that is unique? Do you also think a person like that doesn't;t make judgements based on race in terms of hiring? Who to save?

    Why?
     
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  25. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    Im telling right now hypothetically if Tom Brady or OBJ had an issue like this he would get a job because he is worth the pr nightmare IE AP, what im saying is their play and skills aren't good enough for a team to deal with the pr nightmare whether you or I think one is worse than the other. The nfl is a business and if the equation A+B=C and C isn't greater than D; A being skill and how much he will help the team, B being salary and D being the potential hit to the teams rep and success, then a team wont do it its very simple, for a team to take them on than C would have to greatly out weigh D.

    there is nothing funny to any of it im merely making light of a situation, how have you been technical because you are throwing out numbers based on your opinion? Next time you see a kid ask them if they can name 5 nba superstars or nfl superstars then ask if they know who the vice president is!!! athletes have just as much if not more responsibility to the youth in this country than the leader of the free world does and im not talking about POPPA DOC from 8 mile!!!! Ask yourself this when you were a kid did you give a crap about anything political? I know I didn't I was out in the backyard trying to throw td passes like Dan I was trying to hit last second jumpers like Jordan or having hr derby's with my hat backwards like JR. GRIFFEY. POTUS has an affect on us as adults because that's what you pay attention to as you get older because it matters and affects us now.

    But it is our job as adults to teach our kids differently, I grew up with all types of people yellow purple green blue black orange, it didn't matter everyone was cool and I had fun, as adults its on us to teach kids to accept everyone not point them down the road of failure. teach them right, but by people teaching pee wee football programs to kneel that's just putting kids right back into the situation they don't need to be in.
     
  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    This is a little bizarre.

    First of all, you're not understanding that there are different levels to PR issues. I really, really don't understand why you're having difficulty with this. In reality, CKap's issue should be a PR headache not a PR nightmare. The fact that it is a nightmare on the level of beating your wife tells us there's a real problem here.

    Secondly, I haven't made up anything let alone numbers based on opinions. You, in fact, have though.

    Third, no sports star ever, in the history of the world, has more power than the POTUS. None. Nada. Zip. Your false equivalence of comparing a child's role model to the power for the POTUS not only isn't valid, but it makes literally no sense in anyway and just smacks of flailing to make a point.

    Lastly, there's no hypotheticals here, we've seen it take place. White man kneels doesn't get blackballed. Black man who has accomplished more as a pro QB kneels and is black balled from he league.
     
  27. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Because of the culture being taught in predominantly black neighborhoods.

    Look, no race is inherently more violent, more criminalistic etc, but certain cultures are. The fact is, blacks commit more crime. Now, I hope no one decides to just pull the "you're a racist" stuff with me, because no one here knows anything about me and I can assure you that I have not one racist bone in my body. However, I also don't make excuses. 50-60 years ago, even when blacks were being oppressed and segregated, they had less of a crime rate than now. Why? Their family structure was fantastic. Black neighborhoods stuck together instead of killing each other. Black single parent homes were rare back then (15-20%). Now they are the norm (70-80%). Black employment rates were much lower than they are today (9% vs 13.5%).

    Blacks have been told for so long that they can't do it on their own that they started to believe it. And this is what we have today. And it's a shame. But the ONLY way to fix what's broken is to fix it themselves.
     
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  28. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Walter talking anything political with you is pointless ive stated many times the level of pr matters towards the skills, and the pr injury however you want to classify it next pr turf toe or maybe pr paper cut, if his skills isn't up to par for a team to deal with it its not going to happen. There's a reason Tebow is playing baseball his skills weren't enough why cant you see that. your acting like cap is vick or Randall Cunningham he's far from it. But demanding money like he is, he could be easily in the league if he wants to be a backup and get backup money but he wont. so who is really at fault here for him not having a job the league or his greed? im sure someone would sign him tomorrow if he would accept a 1 mill deal or something don't you agree?
     
  29. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe anyone talking about "real" US issues should be labeled as a racists if you are stating facts and not being condescending or talking down to someone else or race then people should be open to the truth or what you have to say. as well as I hope no one takes me as a one way racists person, I as well have not one racists part in my body every race is what makes this country great, there's something wrong with every race gender etc and to think there's not is our problem as a society.
     
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  30. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I'm a little late to the party here, but I wanted to respond to the original point.

    So many people complaining that the protests are taking away from their enjoyment of football. Well, do you know what's taken away from my own enjoyment? Having the patriotism, and sometimes even the religion of others forced down my throat when all I want to do is watch sports. I don't want to watch people wave flags and cheer on the military, and I don't want to have to stand there and listen to someone pray over the loudspeaker. It all makes me very uncomfortable, and it has no place there. It makes no sense. Take those things to the proper places, not a stadium.

    How about we take all of that unnecessary baggage away and just play a game.
     
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  31. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    Hey, these MFers can kneel, masturbate, whatever they want. I'm not going to have any part in following it any more though. I follow Dolphins football to get away from this **** - not get another dose of it. 45+ years (KC 2x overtime game 71 from the 3rd Q when my Dad told me to come in and watch it). I'm done. Effing, done.

    Enjoy your politicized everything.
     
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  32. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Amen.
     
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  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Tebow is the worst passing quarterback I have ever seen in the NFL. Literally, the worst. I have never seen a quarterback in the NFL who was less accurate with such a weak arm. His throwing motion was also very slow.

    Even with that he started for the Broncos, was picked up by the Jets and then was picked up by the Patriots. Oh yea, finally picked up again by the Eagles.

    If he was willing to change positions he would probably still be in the NFL.
     
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  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Then turn on the TV during kickoff. It is very easy to avoid.
     
  35. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I agree. If he wasn't so beloved by a certain segment of the population for what he does off the field, he would likely not have even been drafted, let alone in the first round. He was a terrible passer in college.
     
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  36. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    Why are the people who have problems with this 40 to 50 year fans?
     
  37. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    Until you turn on the local news channel, or sports news channel, or read a newspaper, or get on the internet, or go to a bar, or watch FOOTBALL.

    Turning off the TV is a lame answer. I happen to like the respect and UNITY shown by respecting the National Anthem and the USA Flag during pre-game, all the ceremonies are great to me.

    Get a life you spoiled brat millionaire losers. Keep that **** off the ****ing field, and out of MY FAVORITE SPORT!!!
     
  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    if you cannot handle Americans enjoying their freedom, you should keep the TV turned off until the part that triggers you is over. It is basic logic.
     
  39. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    2009.hthttps://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/09/nfl-players-didnt-stand-for-the-anthem-before-2009.html

     
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  40. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    Do you not understand that it is my "Right" to protest the NFL's despicable actions? It goes both ways, and it will ruin the NFL completely if they don't handle it very soon.
     
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