1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

With Home Invasions more on the rise....

Discussion in 'Questions and Answers' started by Fin Fan In Cali, Jun 25, 2009.

  1. Fin Fan In Cali

    Fin Fan In Cali Dolphin fan since 1970 Luxury Box

    28,030
    13,840
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    So. Cal
    with the economy the way it is, what is the family here using to protect there families at home from intruders, and burglars? Looking for serious input here for a great brother of the site. I appreciate all of your thoughts and comments.
     
    first&goal likes this.
  2. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    A couple things I have learned along the way.

    A large loud Dog is a good deterrent on several levels. He will help ward off to bedin with. His bark gives you an early warning. Even the most timid of dogs will usually stand up for their person if in dire needs.

    Home security system will actually give you a substantial insurance break.

    A 12 Guage shotgun is the ultimate stopper
     
    calphin, Boik14, muscle979 and 5 others like this.
  3. arsenal

    arsenal Sunglasses and advil

    2,768
    1,081
    0
    Nov 26, 2007
    Commack, NY
    I definitely agree with the dog, a larger dog is just a deterrent, it can be the sweetest dog ever, but a buglar wouldn't know and most likely wouldn't want to find out...

    much cheaper option than an alarm system...

    as for the gun, i dont know, i think if a burglar has a gun, and you pull one, now you have a shootout and potential for death/being paralyzed to you or a family member as opposed to just having a few things stolen... doesn't seem smart to me...
     
  4. first&goal

    first&goal Luxury Box Luxury Box

    4,941
    749
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Charlotte
    Home Invasion is rampant here in Charlotte NC.
    Your typical burglary happen during the day, which still bad, but home invasions are made generally in the middle of the night, by three or four individuals armed and well trained.
    Everything happen very fast and unfortunately the resident is the one that pays with his life. My wife and I we are very concern about all this and we are trying to find the best way possible, to defend our self and be ready in the event that we are the target.
    thanks for your input.
     
    Fin Fan In Cali likes this.
  5. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    Just keep this in mind, it is only a shoot-out if you have a gun.
    Otherwise it is just a shooting.

    Scenario: You are awoken in the middle of the night by a burglar...
    what exactly do you do?
    Obviously try to call the cops,and then what? Hide under the covers till they are gone?
     
    calphin, Boik14, dolphan117 and 6 others like this.
  6. first&goal

    first&goal Luxury Box Luxury Box

    4,941
    749
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Charlotte
    Great point, in situation like that is no time to wait for the cops and we need to be ready to engage before they do.
     
    Fin Fan In Cali likes this.
  7. arsenal

    arsenal Sunglasses and advil

    2,768
    1,081
    0
    Nov 26, 2007
    Commack, NY
    you said its a burglary right? why would there be shooting? if someone has a gun to me and says they are gonna rob me, i say go for it, take whatever you want...

    if im in my room, im going to call the cops, get my bat and bunker down with the family to make sure they are safe till the cavalry arrives... i wouldn't instigate anything if someone is trying to rob from me... no amount of money or material possessions is worth dying over, or seeing a family member die over...
     
    Boik14, dolfan32323 and first&goal like this.
  8. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    I am a HUGE proponent of the Right to Bare Arms, but it is but always keep in mind it is Paramount that you respect and understand your firearm. Obviously, a firearm instantly raises the intensity of the situation, I strongly suggest spending much time shooting and time in a good firearm class.
     
  9. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

    13,006
    6,368
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    NJ
    I have a little girl, so this is something i take serious. i have an ADT alarm, although i am annoyed that they keep jackin up their rates. its almost 50 bucks a month now. the alarm system comes with a key fob, so u can just push the panic button, which i never had to use but i assume works nicely.

    i also have an 80 lb english bulldog who sleeps outside her door. he is a sweetheart, but has a loud growl and bark, anytime people walk by or approach our house. if you dont know him, he can be a little scary looking.
    [​IMG]

    i also have a fairly elaborate LEGAL weapon arrangement, if you wanted to pm me, id be more than happy to share with you.
     
  10. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

    19,529
    9,219
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    CNY
    I agree with what some folks already suggested. Even though the home security system is meant to be your first line of defense, alot of times it's the dog that alerts you to trouble first, so it's best to have both. And I can't agree with Ken enough, having a firearm is a huge advantage, but it's also a huge responsibility and I would suggest that anybody who is thinking of getting one for home protection should take a safety class and spend time firing the weapon in order to get comfortable with it. There is nothing worse than reading about a homeowner who ended up shooting a family member because he either overreacted or didn't know how to properly use his weapon.
     
  11. HolliFinFan

    HolliFinFan Not a Face Painter Luxury Box

    2,219
    1,480
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    South Florida
    We have an alarm system and firearms. No dog, but I believe that they are the best deterrents.
     
  12. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,363
    31,258
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I'm a big proponent of dogs. I have smaller dogs which tend to be very good at alerting. I don't have a gun and while I have nothing against them I doubt I would use one to protect my home. I'm a martial arts guy and I tend to have assorted weapons laying about my home. And test after test by military and police personnel have found that within 10 yards the guy with the knife beats the guy with the gun the majority of the time. And these are guys with plenty of training, I'd imagine that a person with less training than those people would fare even worse.

    And despite the multitude of weapons in the house I think the most effective weapon I have for a middle of the night invasion is my flashlight. It has defense grade brightness meaning that if you shine it in someone's eyes they will experience temporary blindness (often for a couple of minutes) and acute pain. It is made of aircraft aluminum and with the batteries inside it would be like punching someone with a roll of quarters in your hand. It also has a crenulated (notched) bezel which would be effective and painful with any kind of hammer-fist strike. And I can leave it next to my bed ready to go with out concern about myself, my son or one of his friends getting hurt. I also don't have to worry about it penetrating a wall and hurting my son if I use it against an intruder.
     
    Mainge, Boik14, dolphan117 and 3 others like this.
  13. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    43,997
    21,652
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Generally, robbers are going to avoid houses that appear to be more of a hassle. Make visible signs that indicate you have a security system. Keep your front yard and back yard very well lit at night. Make sure everything stays locked.

    Also, when I was a child my dad always told me if we ever got robbed, yell "Dad, get the shotgun".
     
  14. Fin Fan In Cali

    Fin Fan In Cali Dolphin fan since 1970 Luxury Box

    28,030
    13,840
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    So. Cal
    Brother Peter perhaps you could set up some fishing line that wouldn't be seen at night with cowbells or something on the end that when tripped would give you a heads up that trouble is coming. I have my three dogs, and my K-Bar knife from my Marine Corps days myself. If I lived in a area or if things got worse, I would probably buy a gun, and sign up for training lessons. I haven't used a rifle or gun since I was in Marine Corps in 1993. Also have a plan if something were to happen where are you going to go within the house. Maybe have an extra cell phone there in case of an emergency. You could also talk to the local police dept. to find out response times, so that will give you an idea of how long you will have to defend yourself, the misses, and your dogs. Stay safe bro.
     
    azfinfanmang and first&goal like this.
  15. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

    19,861
    5,792
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Melbourne, Fl
    scary times were living in huh?
     
    first&goal likes this.
  16. first&goal

    first&goal Luxury Box Luxury Box

    4,941
    749
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Charlotte
    In our neighborhood we did never experience such thing, therefore we are not prepare to answer this kind of violence. I did talk to a police officer and also I did some research in reference to home invasions which is different to your typical robbery, is much more violent and rarely gives you enough time to defend yourself.
    We do have a very good watch dog " Reina " our boxer, also we went to training lessons for the weapons that we purchased and we are going twice a week to a shooting range, to take our rust off.
    I'm working on the possibility to install a window&glass protection films that would make your windows almost unbreakable, this product is made in Georgia and I'm waiting for the cost.
     
  17. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,102
    4,175
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    There is (or was) a show on TV (discovery) called something like "It takes a Thief" where these two ex burglers would go around and do a simulated burglary on a family while they were away to show them how crap their defense was.

    Basically, keep your house and yard clear of easy cover a robber can use to stay out of sight of neighbors etc. Get strong locks for all doors, and make sure they are real, actual solid wood or steel. Just the doorknob key is way to easy. Same for windows. Strong frames and shatter resistant glass. If your in a bad area bars could also be used. If you a basement, consider any basement windows or doors as well as things like skylights, windows on accessible roof areas etc. The dude in the show got in through second floor windows a lot that way.
    Visible signs for an alarm company are nice, and actually using an alarm system. Dont make your house a target by leaving open garage doors, expensive cars in the drive, open windows to get a "drive by appraisal" etc.

    Dogs are great as a deterrent, but not a be all. Guns or other weps are fine as a last ditch deterrent/defense, but I would suggest training if you get one.

    Bottom line, make your house not stand out. Dont let on that something valuable is there for the taking, and make it seem like your house is way to much of a hassle to intrude upon. Other than that its just a matter of actually using what youve put in place-ie: actually lock the door!
     
  18. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

    4,090
    2,337
    113
    Dec 10, 2007
    NC Mountains
    1. Dog...well covered
    2. Motion detector lighting if plausible
    3. Break patterns when entering home, do things differently.....
    4. Establish sight line before entering home
    5. Remove items that provide cover near home
    6. Close drapes at night
    7. Set nightlights at different times/places
    8. Establish interaction with neighbors and make sure they know your general patterns
    9. Personally shotgun is a good idea if you are comfortable with weapons, however I also recommend a revolver (also) if ladies might use weapon. Women tend to not like clips..........
    10. Have hardline phone and cell near you when sleeping.
    11. Establish a panic code word with neighbors.
    12. if kids are around make sure they know where to go for their "safe place"...neighbor or place.
    13. if plausible make sure kids know address and how to dial 911 and it's purpose....

    Just my 2 cents..........................
     
  19. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    This is and should be a valid concern to us all and there are some very good answers here IMHO.

    Some things about guns you should deside on before getting one. First, and foremost, are you REALLY willing to use it. You will NOT have the time to think about this if the SHTF. Secondly, and just as important, you must become proficent which means practice, practice, and more practice. You owe that to not only yourself but also your family. And last, but not any less in importance, make one room a SAFE room and practice with your family on what to do and when, often. That way they WON"T be in the line of fire when the bullets fly; because by now you must be willing to let those bullets fly.

    rafael, WADR, it is called the 21 foot rule and its a Police stat.

    I would say all bets are off in a house invasion. Are they really trained, I for one won't give them that much credit, but they are using numbers as intimidation. IMHO it is your will against theirs and you are fighting on your turf and for your family, don't let the numbers get in the way of the truth. You have the high ground DON"T EVER GIVE IT UP!

    Just my 2 cents.:wink2:
     
  20. first&goal

    first&goal Luxury Box Luxury Box

    4,941
    749
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Charlotte
    Thanks brothers for your help and expertise. I'm realizing that I still have a lot of work to do to put myself and my Family in a safer position against this awful trend.
     
    Fin Fan In Cali and azfinfanmang like this.
  21. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007

    Perhaps you do brother, and actually, probably the most important factor is realizing their might be a threat and educating yourself...training yourself ahead of time.

    Anytime we open up these discussions, we all grow and learn from them.
     
  22. opfinistic

    opfinistic Braaaaains!

    30,659
    14,683
    0
    Dec 7, 2007
    Peeking in Nabo's Basement
    I don't own a gun, but I have two dogs that alert me whenever the fence to the porch is opened up. I also keep a baseball bat at the ready in case **** happens. I know that bringing a bat to a gun fight isn't the greatest idea, but with a South American wife it is safer to not own a gun.
     
    NaboCane, 1armychick, calphin and 2 others like this.
  23. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    Or a sharp knife :up:
     
    first&goal and opfinistic like this.
  24. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

    28,433
    15,185
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    Here's another question: what's more likely to happen? use your gun to either ward off or shoot a burglar, or one of your children getting his/her hands on your gun and hurting themselves? Odds are, it's the latter.

    I know when I was a stupid teenager, had a few drinks, I'd break into my Dad's cabinet and showoff his Smith and Wesson-Dirty Harry-44 Magnum.
     
    first&goal likes this.
  25. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    Throwing alcohol into the conversation COMPLETELY changes things, especially illegal consumption by a teenager :pity:

    I assure you, in my household, my girls would have a better chance of getting hit by a car than getting ahold of my guns.
    Every single one of them is under lock and key. I understand things happen, but I take every opportunity safegaurd that I can.
     
    Fin Fan In Cali and first&goal like this.
  26. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico New Member

    1,215
    267
    0
    Jun 8, 2008
    My personal opinion on the subject.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Mainge, muscle979, hof13 and 4 others like this.
  27. USArmyFinFan

    USArmyFinFan Maximum Effort

    7,579
    4,575
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Houston Texas
    It is very important to note that this if the weapon is holstered, if the weapon is drawn and semi aimed at the target, the gun wins the majority of the time. If I have my Colt .45 locked and loaded, at the low ready, I take your bet; I believe I would win any rush as close as 5 yards.

    .45 stemmed hollow points are the best for up close and personal self defense. They are easy to handle, have great knock down power, and big enough to be seen in low light. Where I live I can not have a dog, alarm systems, well, you are relying on other people to call the police (after they call you to make sure it’s not a false alarm) no thanks, too much tame wasted for my tastes. So, save your self a bunch of cash, put alarm stickers in your windows (if an alarm scares them, the stickers saying you have one will to). Buy the gun, learn to use it.
     
  28. USArmyFinFan

    USArmyFinFan Maximum Effort

    7,579
    4,575
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Houston Texas
    Sorry, this is more a fault of society then anything. We are told to hide the guns away, to keep kids safe. BS, teach kids, take then shooting. Help them to understand how dangerous a weapon can be. I remember my father letting shoot a watermelon after showing how much like it felt like my own head. It is a lesson I have never forgotten. If you don’t teach your kids, curiosity will kill the cat. So, take that curiosity away.
     
    NaboCane, 1armychick, hof13 and 3 others like this.
  29. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,363
    31,258
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I'm familiar with the 21 foot rule. It's what makes almost all police shootings in that range, where the victim has a weapon be deemed justifiable. But the FBI and military have also done tests and they didn't always use the 21 foot rule terminology.

    There's the old joke about bringing a knife to a gun fight but within 10 yards the knife holder has the advantage. What many police departments are finding is that in high stress situations their cops have very little accuracy. Most training involves shooting using your fine motor skills, but as your pulse rate rises (as it often does in high stress situations) you lose fine motor skills. The body is limited to gross motor skills and all that training at the gun range is virtually useless. You can see the numbers in those publicized cases where some suspect gets shot like 30 times but there were actually a 100-150 shots fired. Multiple police studies have found that their cops actually hit 20%-30% of the time. So based on this some police departments are changing their shooting training to use gross motor skills rather than fine motor skills. I have no idea how this works.

    And BTW that 20% - 30% hit percentage was not for lethal hits. That included shots that winged attackers or were otherwise non-lethal. So in my house which has no areas where I'm likely to be attacking or being attacked by someone at more than 10 yards away I'd rather bring a knife (or a bat, sword, escrima sticks, nunchucka, golf club, flashlight, etc) against somebody with a gun.
     
    Boik14 and first&goal like this.
  30. USArmyFinFan

    USArmyFinFan Maximum Effort

    7,579
    4,575
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Houston Texas
    Again, if the weapon is holstered, if you are woke up in the middle of the night by a sound, alarm, or dog, you are not going to put on a holster, then holster the weapon. You move through your house at least at the low ready. I do agree, that close quarters with someone with a knife is a very dangerous place to be. Then again, how many people out there can truly handle a knife correctly, and of those how many will break in to your house. Most people will not rush your if they have a knife and you’re a gun.
     
    hof13, gafinfan and first&goal like this.
  31. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,363
    31,258
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    The tests I've read or seen included drawing a weapon. Here are some stats from one that had been sent to me a while back. I don't have a link b/c I didn't get it from a site.

    Once he perceives a signal to do so, the AVERAGE officer requires 1.5 seconds to draw from a snapped Level II holster and fire one unsighted round at center mass. Add 1/4 of a second for firing a second round, and another 1/10 of a second for obtaining a flash sight picture for the average officer.
    The fastest officer tested required 1.31 seconds to draw from a Level II holster and get off his first unsighted round.The slowest officer tested required 2.25 seconds.
    For the average officer to draw and fire an unsighted round from a snapped Level III holster, which is becoming increasingly popular in LE because of its extra security features, takes 1.7 seconds.


    Meanwhile, the AVERAGE suspect with an edged weapon raised in the traditional "ice-pick" position can go from a dead stop to level, unobstructed surface offering good traction in 1.5-1.7 seconds.
    The "fastest, most skillful, most powerful" subject tested "easily" covered that distance in 1.27 seconds. Intense rage, high agitation and/or the influence of stimulants may even shorten that time, Lewinski observes.

    Even the slowest subject "lumbered" through this distance in just 2.5 seconds.

    Bottom line: Within a 21-foot perimeter, most officers dealing with most edged-weapon suspects are at a decided - perhaps fatal - disadvantage if the suspect launches a sudden charge intent on harming them.


    So yes there would be variables if the gun is already drawn or how much visibility you have in a night time invasion or a host of other things.

    I'm not a big fan of alarms so I agree with you that buying the sticker probably prevents the majority of the robberies at a fraction of the cost. And I agree with learning to use a gun, but I don't agree that it's as effective as a self-protection tool in a home invasion situation.
     
    Boik14 and first&goal like this.
  32. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,363
    31,258
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    IMO it's not worth the risk to have the gun for home protection. I enjoy shooting and I'm not bad at it, but I believe it's better to have the gun locked away and used for purposes other than home protection.

    My main concern would not be with my son whom I've instilled with a proper respect for weapons but rather one of his friends or a neighbor kid who is too nosy. To avoid that I'd need to put it away more and probably have a trigger guard on it which in turn makes it less accessible to me when I need it.

    I think the most effective weapon is the one that's there when I need it. For me as a martial artist it's my body and I can make it a little more effective with the flashlight and the escrima sticks I have within hands reach of my laying position on the bed.
     
    Boik14 and first&goal like this.
  33. USArmyFinFan

    USArmyFinFan Maximum Effort

    7,579
    4,575
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Houston Texas
    Raf I absolutely agree that close quarters goes to the knife, especially in a home. I questioned you reference of 10 yards, I disagree, 10 ft, I agree with you. In a night time break in, it more then likely depends on who see who first, and how big of balls either on has. I would say 6 out of 10 (my guess here) robbers would take flight, not fight.
     
    rafael and first&goal like this.
  34. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,363
    31,258
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    The 10 yards figure is from all the studies. It's not something I have any personal experience with or can say conclusively one way or the other.

    I just know that in my house I don't have a ton of open space. Certainly nothing as large as 10 yards. In the few areas where there are larger expanses, there is furniture or other obstacles for cover or rooms or hallways to duck into. The person with the knife or other weapon (and a knowledge of the house) would definitely have the advantage over an intruder with a gun.
     
    first&goal likes this.
  35. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,102
    4,175
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Use a shotgun over a pistol? :wink2:

    Seriously though, these are last line of defense type things. I would put the most concentration on beefing up your front lines. Get a dog if you think you can handle one now, home security system. Make sure windows and doors are well built to withstand easy entry. Garage side doors are notorious being flimsy and broken with a single well place kick. Make your home as unappealing as possible and hopefully you never worry about having to shoot or knife an assailant.
    IMO-one thing nobody has yet said ... Pepper spray?

    Further, if there is some bad stuff going on, get with neighbors and form a neighborhood watch. Consult your police department and request more frequent patrols in your area at night or during the day when people are working/at school or whatever the big break in times are.
     
    first&goal likes this.
  36. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    You keep stating this 10 yard rule (????) yet you bolden the 21 foot perimeter, please explain and a link would clear this up. Not saying you are wrong but in all my years of training and being trained I've NEVER heard that one.

    As to your plan of dealing with home invasion I wish you luck.

    1. We don't go looking for the invader we make him come to us, in our safe room. You NEVER give up the high ground!!
    2. He/they HAVE to break into the safe room. You advise him/them they will be killed the second they break thru the door. Think RE Lee here!!:up:
    3. As he/they begin to hit the door you fire several rounds thru said door.
    4. He/they then know you will kill them, at that moment he/they will either press you and suffer for those actions or leave.
    5. You in the mean time have called the police on 911 with your cell and have informed them of the sit. and that you have fired shots and are weapons hot.

    The 21 foot rule does not apply unless you are trying to be Rambo and clear your house yourself. In which case you had best be Damn good or very lucky because you have, by your actions, given up your advantage and your odds have dropped way down on the survival level.:wink2: JMO of course.
     
    first&goal likes this.
  37. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

    1,294
    578
    0
    Dec 11, 2007
    Tokyo!
    Small yappy dog for alerting. Big Dog for deterrence.

    It's a sad state of affairs when someone has to worry about such things. What has happened to our civilized society?
     
    first&goal likes this.
  38. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,363
    31,258
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    The shotgun does solve the issue of wall penetration and accuracy but you still have accessibility concerns.

    I'm not a big fan of pepper spray. I don't really like indiscriminate weapons. Those are the kind that those with little training can turn on you. I've heard of too many instances where victims have sprayed themselves or their friends with pepper spray in the heat of things.
     
    first&goal and azfinfanmang like this.
  39. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,363
    31,258
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I never called it a 10 yard rule. 10 yards is the distance I first read about in legal pleadings and a military study. I've seen it called 21 foot rule in police studies. Its the exact same distance.

    And you're talking above about a siege situation. In a typical home you hear a noise in the middle of the night, you go check what it was. Most often the kid, the dog, the cat or some other non-threatening occupant is the one responsible. You don't stay in your room b/c you may have to assist said kid, dog, cat, etc., so you go investigate and solve whatever issue has interrupted your slumber. And I've heard of more situations where a jumpy homeowner shot an innocent than where they shot a burglar. That's why I grab my flashlight and go investigate. It's non-lethal and perfectly suited for the vast majority of nocturnal investigations. In the unlikely instance that it is an intruder, the light alone will usually scare the perp away, but if it doesn't it's bright enough that anyone who comes at you is blinded often for a couple of minutes. That gives you the opportunity to attack or escape.
     
    first&goal likes this.
  40. Fin Fan In Cali

    Fin Fan In Cali Dolphin fan since 1970 Luxury Box

    28,030
    13,840
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    So. Cal
    In talking with Peter this is organized gang activity that is well trained with possible ex-military that are taking advantage of older families with a whole group that enters the house through the door, or window all at once after they cut the power. The police have said do what you have to. They are not afraid to be violent and have killed a man already.
     
    first&goal, azfinfanmang and gafinfan like this.

Share This Page