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With Marshall on the Dolphins, why trade Ted Ginn?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. FinFan316

    FinFan316 Banned

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    IIRC, he catches the deep ball well. Its the passes across the middle or in the flat that he has problems with. Hes not going to fight for the ball. Hes a runner, not a fighter. BM and BH will fight for the ball.
     
  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Too cheap, how about to DC for Fat Albert?

    Nah, that work ethic would last 2 days in Sparano's Miami, if he went to the Titans we'd have to have Jason Jones for him.
     
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  3. FinFan316

    FinFan316 Banned

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    I disagree. It comes down to value. Who is of more value, this year, to the Fins? Who has the potential to help our team more; Teddy Ginn or a sixth rounder?

    Now, if we are in the third round, and we need to move up to get a NT, for example, and we have to give our third pick and Ginn to get that player, I wouldn't be opposed to it. But there IMO that has to be some strategic thought behind it, not just some random move to save a few bucks and get a late round pick.

    We cannot think about the past. We can only think about what kind of player Teddy Ginn will be for us in this season. I think for the first time, we have the other pieces to make him a good fit.
     
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  4. FinFan316

    FinFan316 Banned

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  5. FinFan316

    FinFan316 Banned

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    I think Ginn is a BIG help. If he is in the game in a four WR set, who is going to cover him? A Safety? I don't think so.
     
  6. BLITZ

    BLITZ New Member

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    Now that we have Marshall, I wouldn't mind seeing if Ginn could kick it up to another level. You never know, he does have great speed...

    ~IN TUNA WE TRUST~
     
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  7. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    Feel free to explain. The guy is a terrible WR. The guy is an average KR. Ginn blows, face it.
     
  8. bluehaze

    bluehaze New Member

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    In Tony Sparanos words "This team won't tolerate mediocrity" Ginn is too inconsistent, you never know wether the guy is going to catch the ball or bat it into the other teams hands. Having Marshall isn't going to fix that.
     
  9. Phinatic425

    Phinatic425 MIA State of Mind

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    Now that we have a big reciever that can make plays underneath that means the safteys have to play up, thus giving Ginn a better chance to burn 'em deep.

    I know we all hate on him, but I would love to see Ginn have a big year
     
  10. TheMageGandalf

    TheMageGandalf Senior Member

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    I dont think I have to waste my time writting on here about my distaste for Ginn which goes back to the day we drafted him.

    BUT LET ME MAKE ONE THING PERFECTLY CLEAR...

    Now, with this aquisition, we SHOULD NOT get rid of Ginn until later this season (closer to the deadline) if at all.

    WHY? What.....?!?!?! Has Mage gone mad?

    No.

    Its because Ginn (as we all know) is NOT a #1 WR...or even a 2. He's a SPECIALTY WR. His specialty is to run down the field and (hopefully) catch the bomb.

    Thats it.

    Itd be a lot easier to accomplish this goal when he is not double covered.

    Pick your poison...either you double on Marshall and let Ginn get open and possibly score an immediate TD or do you double Ginn and let Marshall chew you up inside?

    Maybe you decide to cover both guys tightly and then you now have to contend with Bess, Camarillo or Hartline chewing you up?

    DAMN PEOPLE.

    Its like what I and MANY on here have been saying for awhile now.

    This team needed a WR. A TRUE #1 and you'll see how this offense (with Brown - or whomever - and Williams) suddenly begins to destroy opposing teams.

    Focus on fixing the Defense now and possibly getting a better TE through the draft.
     
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  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The stats don't lie, TG will not be a consistent #1 type of Wr but what he does do is create long plays, he is explosive, and holds up in comparison to the other big named Wr in the NFL.

    BMarsh across from him will only elevate his game and maximize what he does really, really well, mainly turn on the after burners and create long plays.


    Hat tip to Fineas up in Club for this excellent work.
     
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  12. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    The pressure is off Ginn to be that number 1 Wr that he was never going to be. What do the teams like the Jets do with Marshall on one side, Ginn on the other and Hartline in the slot? Do they put Revis on Marshall and leave Ginn with the much softer Cromartie? I would like that matchup big time if the line can give Henne 3 seconds...
     
  13. burger13

    burger13 New Member

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    Ginn provides something that no other WR on our roster currently does, a vertical threat.

    he has elite speed that no one else on our offense does.

    it's great that he no longer has to be expected to be a #1...or even start, but he does threaten a defense over the top.
     
  14. FinsAreLife

    FinsAreLife Well-Known Member

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    Here's how i see it...

    Locks to make team:

    Brandon Marshall-Pretty obvious why haha
    Davone Bess-Young, quick, great hands, cheap, lead team in recieving last season and is a great slot fit.

    Very likely to make the team:

    Brian Hartline- Young, a draft pick from the current front office, tons of potential, football smart, seems to be able to find the endzone.

    Patrick Turner - While he has done absolutely nothing he is young, a pick from current front office, has great size and still needs an opportunity to show what he can do. No doubt he will be the last WR on the roster.

    One of these will get cut/traded:
    Ted Ginn Jr- has not had the best relationship with current coaching staff, not the best hands, has speed and can be very useful in the return game but also shows inconsistencies both in the return and recieving game.

    Greg Camarillo- Very sure handed and a 3rd down machine. He didnt produce alot last season however and is more expensive than bess, hartline, and turner.



    I just cant help but to hope to see ginn gone but we'll see how it goes.
     
  15. TheMageGandalf

    TheMageGandalf Senior Member

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    :up:

    I wouldn't say that it would elevate his game (since I think he has honestly reached a peak) but rather OPEN up his game more.

    It would create, as you said, more long play opportunities.

    I remember that during Marino's last few years thats what we wanted!

    We had decent interior guys.

    Hell, OJ was the best at short and even medium stuff but we needed that long play threat and Dan never got that as Martin came back when he was old and fading out.

    So, in the end people may argue that Ginn needs to actually catch the ball but from what I have seen from him, his abilities actually go well with what we have.

    1 Marshall
    2 Hartline
    3 Bess
    4 Camarillo
    5 Ginn - (as the specialty deep threat and KR now and then)
    6 ?? (if we carry one maybe Turner or a rookie?)

    As I said before, I wouldnt trade him YET only because I'd want to check him out in this line up during pre-season and maybe a real game or two before I say "OK this dude is total junk, he cant even play right when he's not even the featured WR"
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Man that would be beautiful, Ginn can run bye any Cb in the NFL.
     
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  17. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    It's an uncapped year. Who cares?
     
  18. burger13

    burger13 New Member

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    Barely over 1 million for 2010....Camarillo is scheduled to make more than Ginn next year....
     
  19. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    Tell that to Kevin Greene,Hershal Walker,Bryon Cox
    Zach Thomas,Tony Martin,Ben Coates,Mark Brunell
    Rodney Harrison,Steave Breaston,Brent Celek
    Dan Koppen,Michael Turner,Steve Grogan,Conrad Dobler
    Dexter Manley and the list goes on...

    for 5th rounders who don't play
     
  20. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Hmm, let's say...Dexter Manley, drafted in 1982 or so, 28 yrs worth of 5th rd picks, 30 picks, 828 or more 5th rd picks, and you identified a small handful who actually did make it.

    Those are massively long odds you are pimping for bucking miamiron.
     
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  21. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    There's no reason to. Not only is Marshall an elite receiver but he will open up the offense for everyone else. No one should benefit from that more than Ginn. He will have an opportunity now to really prove himself and he needs to take advantage of it. Marshall and Ginn on the field together will be a nightmare for opposing defensive coordinators.

    Marshall
    Ginn
    Hartline
    Bess

    That's a top 5 unit right there.
     
  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I remember the game after they took Ginn out of the starting lineup is the game he broke for the long KR touchdown and almost did it again the next time up. He fought like mad to be a starter again and was decent...if I dare I say it, cause I'm not a huge Ginn fan either...down the stretch.

    I think the competition of Marshall coupled with him not being double teamed as often will leave him open a good bit more, and he may just turn out to be a go-to guy after all. I would take Camarillo, Bess, or Hartline over Ginn almost any day of the week...but on that 7th day when Ginn shows up (like that deep pass he caught for a TD in week 14 or 15) he's definitely worth having. For that reason alone, I'd say leave the guy on the roster and give him a few more years.
     
  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    If Turner couldn't even get on the field past season, with as poor as Ginn played, why in the world would anyone think that Turner is better to keep than Ginn? For real, guys, you gotta stop looking at Ginn as if last year was the only year of football he ever played. He hasn't been known to have bad hands. I wouldn't expect to see him have that problem this coming year. He actually made some really tough catches the last four or five games of the year. He's definitely worth keeping around for this year.
     
  24. bluehaze

    bluehaze New Member

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    And then bobble the ball back into the CB's hand once he tries to catch it :lol:
     
  25. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It happens, BMarsh was known as a fumbler himself.

    and Bro, I'm vibing on the idea of BMarsh drawing the other teams #1 Cb, and Ginn facing some #3 cb, Ginn can get deep baby, this should be a great season.
     
  26. DHPVW

    DHPVW DuB addict

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    I don't see Ginn getting much better with or without Marshall. He still won't be able to catch the ball and it doesn't change the fact that he's scarred like a little school girl of getting hit. I would like to keep him around to have that special teams weapon though.......I would like to see Hartline start opposite of Marshall, that or hopefully Turner can get some playing time and come out like gangbusters. I think Bess is best used as a slot rec. It will be tough to cover Bess with two other good rec on the field, dude knows how to get open
     
  27. bluehaze

    bluehaze New Member

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    I can see where your coming from, dont get me wrong. I just think we have 3 other recievers that are more consistent than Ginn and in the end the consistency is what wins the games. Doesn't matter if we move the ball down the field 10 yards at a time or 80 yards at a time as long as we do it consistently and I just don't see us ever doing anything consistently with Ginn being jammed at the line and dropping passes. Having Marshall opposite him will help him get open no doubt but it's not going to help in his biggest problem areas.
     
  28. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    Ginn has never had problems catching the ball until last season, even then it wasn't throughout the entire season.

    We aren't going to get a high round pick for Ginn, we're better off keeping him.
     
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  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ginn rarely, if ever, drops a deep pass, and with BMarsh in camp, Ginn has maybe 6 routes to run, he can manage that much.

    -Stop and go

    -Hook

    -Out route

    -fly route

    -Post route

    -Skinny post

    He was even running slants later in the season, his two bad games color to many opinions of him imho
     
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  30. bluehaze

    bluehaze New Member

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    Im not even worried about his route running at this point. i'm just concerned with him getting off the line and also being able to catch the ball. I don't remember seeing a Ginn that rarely ever drops a pass. Maybe I have selective memory who knows regardless Marshall can work as a deep threat, Not on a consistent basis but if you've watched his games he usually sets up for a deep pass sometime during the game and he knows when he's going to break it open. Watch the mic'd up thing with him for a perfect example. I think that is a much better option than Ginn as when you throw the ball to Marshall you know it's not going to be a wasted play.

    IMO the FO will find a way to trade Ginn now that we have Marshall...and if they can't find a trade they probably put him on the roster as the #5 to try and up his value and trade him during the season. If they played him sparingly they have a good chance to up his trade value as we've all seen he does seem to play better when he knows his job is on the line but still it just seems like the more chances he gets the more he exposes himself.

    It's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out regardless, it's a great time to be a Fin fan! :knucks:
     
  31. Delfin Alejandro

    Delfin Alejandro Premier League Champs

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    I will exit this thread now. I smell a I hate Tedd Ginn Jr. thread in the making...:pity:
     
  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Anyone who thinks Ginn has always dropped balls has a VERY selective memory. He was pretty sure handed, college and pros, until that two or three game skid last season where he dropped everything. Even his game against Indy... He had what, 10 catches? But all people want to talk about is his drop in the endzone at the end, as if it was all hisnfauot on that drop, and discard the rest of the game.
     
  33. aquatix

    aquatix New Member

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    For the love of all that is holy - Don't trade Ginn!

    Hear me out...

    Ginn is NOT a #1 WR, we all know that. Other team's #1 CB's shut him down and they were able to shade a Safety over Ginn to prevent the deep ball, as we had NO other deep threat on the roster.

    Now that we have Marshall, we need to KEEP Ginn for 2 reasons:

    1. Without Ginn, we have no other deep threat and opposing defenses will shade on top of Marshall all day long. This will frustrate Marshall and we don't need that. Camarillo/Bess/Hartline opposite of Marshall just doesn't strike any fear into opposing defenses. Those 3 guys are slot players.

    2. Imagine Ginn and Marshall on each side of the field. That is a ton of deep threat and the safeties will have to play more honest. If they want to shade on Marshall, I'll take Ted Ginn on deep routes vs #2 CBs in the league (remember, Ginn continually faced the opposing best CB, now he'll get their #2). If both WRs are shaded by safeties, we can run the ball all day long.

    Ginn is the definition of a #2 WR along with a KR/PR. I believe he will thrive in this role as he will play weaker CBs and be isolated more (anyone have the video of Ginn's monster bomb TD that was called back for a penalty?). I believe much of Eddie Royal's success came due to the fact teams concentrated so hard on Marshall. I can see Ginn having success for this reason as well.

    If we trade Ginn for a low pick, it'll be a shame. Give this kid a chance to have the pressure off his back, relieve some pressure from Marshall, and show us what he can do when he doesn't have to be "the man."

    The odd man out, in my opinion, has to be Camarillo. He, Bess and Hartline are all too similar and the latter two have youth on their side. I understand Camarillo has great hands, but someone has got to go.

    Imagine if you will, a 4 WR set with Ginn and Marshall on the outsides, and Bess and Hartline in the slots... Not to mention Ronnie or Ricky in the backfield.
     
  34. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

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    I am ok if Ginn is here next year, but also ok if we move him. I am not sure we will draft any WR's in the upcoming draft, but often you can find some small guys who fall though the cracks.....we have some 6th round picks so maybe take a chance on one of these guys. Marshall, Bess, Camarillo and Hartline sounds really good right now.....and it not only makes Henne happy but our running backs also should benefit.
     
  35. namor

    namor New Member

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    I don't care for Ginn..But I wouldn't just give him away for a Fifth or worse.
    Maybe he can be usefull this year
     
  36. bluehaze

    bluehaze New Member

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    That's still dropping the ball is it not? I don't want to harp on it though i've stated my opinion no sense beating it to death. Will be fun to see what happens this season. Without a doubt I haven't been this excited about the Phins since back when we had Marino, Duper and Clayton and I don't want to spoil it arguing about Ted Ginn so will just leave it at that! :hi5:
     
  37. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Perhaps, but the odd thing about dolphins fans is this collective mental issue about "we need a #1 Wr! And Ted Ginn isn't it!".

    With BMarsh on the roster, Ginn can do what he does well without the mental issue.

    TG was #4 in all purpose yds in 07, #10 in 09, and to reiterate:

    Ginn haters can keep on hating, as a big play creator, Ted Ginn is among the most effective in the NFL...which is why we all should laugh a bit at them..
     
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  38. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    I said just last night i would have loved to see ginn packaged in a deal to land marshall
    well that didnt happen and it might turn out to be for good reason
    teds speed helps us now
    i would keep him now unless you get a deal you cant refuse
    doubt that happens imo
     
  39. Handbanana

    Handbanana New Member

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    I think we're just dangling players out there trying to see what kind of bites we can get. I think in the long run if the catch isnt big enough, they're just going to throw em back.
     

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