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Would we have been better served taking Ryan?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dorfdad, Oct 14, 2008.

  1. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Color me surprised, impressed and a little jealous.. Matt Ryan has proven so far hes going to be an ELITE quaterback in this leauge. I like Jake Long he will ancher our offensive line for years, but I was not expecting Atlanta to be better than us.

    They were horrible last year, rebuilt from scratch, new coaches, new everything like us, but they are doing great.. Granted they need to play more games before its all counted up, but Im wondering if we would have taken Ryan where that would have put us on the QB scale.

    It seems Chad is having a great year so far, 1 bad game in Arizonia but otherwise great. So Im not sure Ryan would have been any better but we will have to go through a new QB again within 1 or 2 years and hope we have a QB while Atlanta will be 2-3 years into an Elite QB's progress..
     
  2. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    Ryan has made a few rookie mistakes that james chadwick pennington hasn't. we also don't know what kind of QB chad henne will be but we've got a great impression of who jake long is. quarterbacks are hard to find but so are franchise LTs. We know long is awesome and i'm suspect to think that henne will be a great francise QB.

    I think the majority of first round QBs don't live up to their potential.
     
  3. Dolphin1184

    Dolphin1184 Member

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    Probably not. Parcells wants to build from the trenches up, starting with the o-line. Jake Long is part of the reason why our O-line is playing much better this year (in addition to Penny's pocket presence). Henne is our future, and I think he will turn out to be a fine QB in the future.
     
  4. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero

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    I disagree.. I am very happy with Long. It all starts in the trenches and our line was horrendous last year (Aside from Satelle).. Well not HORRENDOUS, but not good at all.. Now look at our line, it is becoming one of the best in the league.
    . If your line isnt set, it doenst matter who is back there, the QB is toast.. Prime example is Peyton and Ben this year. Both had very good lines until this year, and now have been getting killed lately. (not so much manning as Ben). Im very happy we didnt pick Ryan and picked Long instead.
     
  5. Phin-o-rama

    Phin-o-rama Well-Known Member

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    even if Long ends up a bust (very doubtful) and matt ryan becomes a HOF'er (even more doubtful)....we made the right decision at the time with the information that was available, and the team's needs.

    end of story...we HAD to take Long.
     
  6. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think this is a fair question. However, hindsight is always 20/20.

    I'll take an All-Pro QB over an All-Pro LT any day of the week. Assuming Matt Ryan becomes an elite QB, I think it is fair to say we made the wrong move. Ryan's doing a great job behind a very average offensive line.

    Look, I love Jake Long. I wanted us to draft him. I bought his jersey. But if Ryan proves to be elite, we made the wrong pick. However, if Ryan turns out to be the next Peyton Manning, and Jake Long is the next Joe Thomas, then the DEGREE by which we made the wrong pick is lessened.
     
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  7. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    If your quarterback is getting his head knocked off by an opposing defenseman it doesn't matter who's behind center if he's on his back all day.
     
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  8. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Have you see the Atlanta OL? Not exactly a group of all-stars here: Baker, Blalock, McClure, Dahl, and Clabo.

    If Ryan is succeeding behind those guys, he'd do fine behind our guys (minus Long, of course).
     
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  9. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    The other day they were tied 5th best in the league.
     
  10. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero

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    One shouldnt pay as much attention to the name os a player as they should to the production of a player. Much to everyones surprise, that Atlanta line has been playing fairly good and consistent football. They are giving Ryan time to throw, and throw plenty of bombs for that matter. A qb needs more than 3 seconds to throw the bombs he has been throwing. That line has been playing well.
     
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  11. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    LTs are harder to find than QBs. So Long was the right choice. And with the draft it is about odds. Many people (including me) looked at Ryan and saw that his odds of success are not much better than some of the other options. Henne was the guy most often cited as having similar odds of success. This doesn't mean that I thought Ryan would fail, I didn't. I and many others just thought (think) that his odds of success are not much better than Henne's. And for the cost (late 2nd vs. 1st overall) Henne was the better buy. Especially when you preserve the chance to fill the LT position.
     
  12. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Not to mention he has a go-to WR in Roddy White, a stud HB in Turner, and a great change of pace back in Norwood.

    The Falcons are not as bad off as people thought they would be.
     
    alen1 likes this.
  13. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    They aren't who we thought they were? :D

    I love those beer commercials.
     
  14. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Not even close. NO

    Ryan has been good, but the big difference on the Falcons is coaching and Turner.

    We got a very good LT in Long and Henne to boot, who just might be better than Ryan.
     
  15. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wanted us to draft Long. But if Ryan turns out to be the next elite QB, it was the wrong decision. Even if Long goes to 10 Pro Bowls. However, it would be a small mistake.
     
  16. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Hopefully Henne turns out to be good enough that we dont have to ask this question in the future. We may look back and say how sweet it was that we picked up a great LT AND a great QB in the same draft.
     
  17. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    How can you say if we made the wrong decision or not? Chad Henne is being brought along slowly behind a good quarterback and we wont know his value until his time to start arrives. He may be average, he may be great and an elite QB or he may be a disappointment, how are we to know at this point?
    You could have this discussion over most of the 1st round pick we have ever made, what if?
    The new regime thought it was important in this teams rebuilding to make the offensive line a priority as they also did in free agency with the Smiley pickup.
    Its great to have an elite quarterback but its not so bad to have an elite offensive line as well but thats JMO.
     
  18. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero

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    Completely disagree... A great line can make even the most mediocre of QB's elite in giving them time to make correct reads and pick apart defenses. If Long goes to 10 pro bowls, along with Ryan, we still would have made the best decision and the correct decision.. Did you see our line the past few years? Manning, Brady, Ben, would all be equally crappy QB's behind our lines of old. I dont see, at this point in the season, how ANYONE can say we made the wrong decision as Long has been a beast and this line is quickly turning into one of the NFL's best
     
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  19. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    NFL Stats: by Team Category

    indeed we're NUMBER 3 in total yards!
     
  20. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    great great post, i would also add that chad henne is very much in the mix in this discussion. how he does will really go along ways to determining how this pick is seen in the future.

    If we had taken Ryan, we would be drafting Eugene Monroe, MIchael Oher or Andre Smith in next years draft so we would still have the same mix of QB/LOT but spread out over two years instead of one year. I think the way to look at it is compare Long/Henne to Ryan/ Monroe and see how it plays out over the next two years
     
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  21. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero

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    Having a #3 ranked offense in terms of yards is very nice and something to be proud of, but i would like to see our scoring rank move up from 9th AFC at 21.4 ppg and probably more importantly, our second to last AFC rank of converting only 33% of 3rd down conversions.

    Although the 21 ppg is a nice increase from the past few years, the 33% 3rd conv rate is dispicable. No converting on 3rd downs = no winning games.
     
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  22. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero

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    IF Atlanta ends up drafting him
     
  23. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    I agree im just opening this up for discussion. I love LONG hes been great, but I think its harder to get an Elite QB than a left tackle. I might be wrong but an Elite QB and an nfl average LG would be better in my opinion.

    I hope Henne does make it, and I think we need much better weapons on offense (wide outs!) before you can gage the whole situation.
     
  24. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    QBs are definitely harder to find than Left Tackles. Are there even ten QBs that matter in this league? Ryan was a once evry couple of years QB. We passed on him but may have ended up getting lucky that Hennne was still available when our late 2nd rounder rolled around. Most people thought he would be gone by then. Sometimes its better to be lucky than good. I like Henne and would like to see him start sooner rather than later. But I disagree that the team had it mapped out that they were going to take Long, Merling and then Henne. They just got lucky that the latter two were still available. The pick came down to Jake versus Ryan and they took Jake which is fine since he is only one of three players that deserved that first overall grade based on early season returns. The other two being Clady and Ryan. Thank God we didnt take Chris Long. Still you always take a franchise QB over a left tackle. Thankfully we got the second or third best choice so it wont hurt too much. And if Henne pans out then we might have gotten lucky enough to address our two biggest needs with one draft instead of two
     
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  25. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    100% agree.
     
  26. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Even if they dont you can compare the theoritical combinations. We definitely would have been drafting a left tackle in 2009 if we had passed on Jake and drafted Ryan
     
  27. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero

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    well at the minimum, hopefully the net would be 0, anything else.. Our favor (hopefully)
     
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  28. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    agreed. thank god because there are zero QBs this year coming out (unless Bradford declares). I really like Henne's chances. Towards the end of this season I'm probably going to want to see him start a game or two
     
  29. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    yeah hopefully henne can match ryan or be better. he has the better arm, though ryan has the better intellect. cant wait for henne to start starting. i dont think he's the type that needs three years on the bench. i think he'll be ready to go next year
     
  30. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    There are definitely many on this board who will have to start eating crow IF Ryan continues to play the way he has thus far. There were no doubts in my mind that Ryan was an elite prospect.

    That being said, our FO made a wise decision in drafting Long. Like I said, Ryan was an elite prospect, and nobody could guarantee if it would translate into NFL success. The key will be Henne. If Henne turns out to be the QB that I think he can, then we did the right thing. If not, it was a mistake.

    I'm thinking it's very lucky we were able to land Pennington otherwise this discussion could potentially be a lot louder if Henne / Beck / McCown came in and struggled.
     
  31. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    I will never consider us drafting Long a mistake unless Long himself is a bust. Just because someone else may or may not have received a franchise QB with their pick and we got a (most likely) francise LT with ours does not make it a mistake; even if Ryan goes to the PB.

    Also (though this has nothing to do with play on the field) Ryan received the most money out of the high draft picks because he is a QB. If Henne comes on strong (I think he will) we have a QB who we're paying less for than Ryan who has the potential to be just as good.
     
  32. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    You're right. Poor choice of wording on my part. In hindsight it would be a mistake. As somebody already pointed out, and I share the opinion, an elite QB is better than an elite LT. But we had no surefire way of knowing. We made the safe, smart pick without the ability to predict the future.
     
  33. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    We aren't even halfway through the season and already some are questioning our pick?

    Patience
     
  34. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    You can have an elite QB with a mediocre line and as long as he gets the ball out quickly you'll most likely be fine; but you can have a mediocre QB behind an elite line and have him play fantastically because of all the time he has. The line makes the offense look better.

    The two positions are so vital to a potent offense for me it's really hard to compare the two. You almost can't have one without the other. An elite LT makes a mediocre QB look good. An elite QB makes the line look good.

    I will say this though. If you have an elite QB but not an elite LT your run to the left might be a bit hampered whereas if you have an elite LT but not a francise QB you can at least run left if you're in a pinch. If your elite QB is shut down then what?
     
  35. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is a discussion board and we're discussing. No one is calling for Long's head or calling him a bust.

    This whole thread has been quite civil and well-articulated. We all know patience. I don't need any lessons from you.
     
  36. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    Even if we were we are discussing and that's fine. It's not like we make the decisions for the team, thank god.
     
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  37. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We can all agree on that!
     
  38. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    [​IMG]

    Take two of these and then reread my post

    I never criticized anyone, I never said that people were getting out of hand or said that they used the word "bust", all I said was have some patience.

    We already have two young QB's who have done well, most people here were drooling over Henne all preseason and calling for him to start just a few games ago, why Ryan is the topic of conversation right now is a bit confusing to me. We needed OL help and both Long and Pennington have done well, where's the problem?
     
  39. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Well I'll be the first to say "Hand me some Crow pie." I thought that Matty Ice would fail given their so-so o-line and new coaching staff. But I will have to tell y'all if Henne isn't the second comming then Parland blew it; as well as I did and then some. And will be even more so if after trading Beck he becomes another Good QB for another team (and I really don't see them keeping JB after this year-I'm glad).

    If you are going to draft a QB to be your Franchise then why wait til the second round unless you know something the rest of the world is dumb about??? Bill may be good but he AIN"T that good.

    I will have to add, a 2 thumbs up to the Falcons coaching staff for doing such a great job of molding their team into a winner!!
     
  40. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero

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    Sometimes its hit or miss, would you consider Sean Peyton a god over Parcells for drafting Colston?
     

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