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Would you play Suh next to Wake or next to Vernon?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bpk, Mar 12, 2015.

Would you rather play Suh next to Wake or next to Vernon?

Poll closed Aug 19, 2015.
  1. Play Suh next Wake

  2. Play Suh next to Vernon

  3. I Am A Defensive Genius With An Even Better Idea

  1. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Poll, would you rather play Suh next to Wake for the overload effect or next to Vernon because it's a better position for Suh in terms of placement along the line?
    Mexphin and UCF FINatic like this.
  2. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

    Apr 17, 2008
    I'd rather him play in the backfield, eating QB's for lunch and HB's as appetizers.
    Rocky Raccoon and Bpk like this.
  3. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

    Apr 17, 2008
    in all seriousness though, next to Wake.
  4. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

    Nov 26, 2007
    Hamilton, Ontario Canada
    Why limit him. Play him whereever. If we face a team with a crap RG...make sure Suh is lining up over him. LG? Same. Playing a crap RT....force Suh on him and let Wake match up on the TE.
  5. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

    May 9, 2008
    Wake/Overload. Vernon get's plenty of 1-1 matchups and fails to win as it is. Besides, how many times have you seen Wake beating his man on the outside, only for the QB to take 1-2 steps up into a clean pocket, and Wake blowing right past him? Those 1-2 steps up in the pocket are now fatal. You're just shortening the distance between you and Suh. Damned if you do, damned if you don't...
  6. cbrad

    cbrad .

    Dec 21, 2014
    I agree. You want to play him wherever you get the greatest mismatch. Only caveat is you switch Suh's position mid-game if the offense seems to take advantage of where he is (e.g. if you overload one side and the offense designs and executes plays towards the other side well, you balance out more. Or if balance isn't getting the necessary pressure - QB has too much time - then you overload).
  7. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Waiting for Coyle to come in and vote "Suh next to Vernon"
  8. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

    Nov 29, 2007
    This **** is gonna be great!
  9. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Keep in mind Suh and Wake are only as strong as the other side of the formation.

    If Mitchel/Vernon do not step up Offenses will simply roll everything their way until they stop it
    Phins Up Wins Up and RoninFin4 like this.
  10. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I voted that way. He'll play 3 technique mostly, where Odrick used to play, which as I recall was mostly the RDT.
    smahtaz likes this.
  11. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    Nov 29, 2007
    I'm all for moving him around. Don't let the opposing OL know where he will line up. Every now again have him play DE and move OV to DT. If we just play him RDT we are just giving the Bellicheks of this world enough information to come wp with schemes based on where he knows Suh will be. Suh isn't a lardass llke Wolfork that has to play line up over the center.
    gunn34 likes this.
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    Nov 27, 2007
    How about a 3-4 with

    OV - Suh - Wake
    Jordan - Misi - Jenkins - McCain
  13. JimToss

    JimToss Thank You Chad Pennington

    Oct 11, 2009
    Coyle thinks we should play Suh next to Dion Jordan the beefed up 300lbs DT!
    resnor likes this.
  14. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio

    And, I'm sure Suh will be doing plenty of both. He's primarily a 3-technique, but he can play 1-technique as well. Miami adjusts to Over/Under fronts frequently based on the offense's formation in base packages. Miami doesn't flop their DEs, so Suh will be playing next to both of them based on formation and Miami's subsequent adjustments. More often than not, when in base packages, Miami plays an Over look, so that'd put Suh next to Wake.

    That being said, I believe there was a PFF breakdown and it showed Suh's best pass-rush spot coming from playing a 2i technique (inside shoulder of the G), which is a nickel look. I think this will be especially effective at getting the DE to his side, regardless if it's Wake, OV, Jordan, Shelby, etc. singled up with a one-on-one matchup as Miami in that look has typically sugared both A gaps. It hasn't worked as well in the past as it could have when Miami's blitzed from this look as teams have been able to single-block guys like Starks, Odrick and Shelby (Shelby aligns in this look in the "speed" package). That won't be the case with Suh. Jelani Jenkins emerged as a good blitzer last year, so now I envision Coyle cooking up looks where you have Jenkins coming through one of the A gaps, Suh slanting inside and you have whichever DEs are on the field getting one-on-one looks. If Miami can find another sub-DT to pair with Suh in this look, it'll be even more effective. Earl Mitchell isn't that guy. I don't think Anthony Johnson is that guy, and you can do better than Derrick Shelby. Coyle also used the same blitz look bringing Reshad Jones on a delayed safety blitz behind Jenkins and whichever DT stunted in front of Jenkins. This resulted in sacks in 2 games (that I can recall off the top of my head) - Green Bay and Jacksonville - and I imagine this would be a more frequently used look by Coyle.

    Long story short, Suh will end up playing on the same side as Wake and Vernon quite a bit; given Miami's history under Coyle, look for Suh to play next to Wake in the base packages more frequently. Maybe less so when Miami goes to nickel and sub packages. For all the grief Coyle gets, certainly from me included, he's done a really nice job in cooking up sub package looks and effective blitzes. Having better personnel will certainly aid that endeavor (i.e. someone not named Jimmy Wilson coming off the edge and someone better than Wheeler/Misi/Ellerbe teaming with Jenkins in the middle in those packages - Jordan did it a lot in 2013, FWIW, not so much last year).

    Bpk, where's he "Both" option? That's how I'd vote.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
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  15. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Dec 11, 2007
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I'm sure Coyle will employ sub packages with that look. He's done a lot of 3-3-5 looks in the past that have been effective, especially in 2013 when Dion Jordan was aligned as an OLB, spy/blitzer up the middle, etc.

    As a base look, not sure if you're serious or not...but, you'd be neutralizing Suh and Wake and OV are both way too small to hold up as 3-4 DEs, especially against the run.
    Fin D likes this.
  16. MichiganSportsTalk

    MichiganSportsTalk New Member

    Oct 29, 2014
    Midland, MI
    Honestly, play him wherever and whenever he is needed. During his time in Detroit, he rarely sat out a play, and the dude never gets hurt. He truly is a freak. Even with the genius of Teryl Austin and signing Ngata, losing Suh significantly downgrades the Lions defense.
  17. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

    Dec 10, 2007
    Suh himself actually said he's looking forward to lining up next to & opposite Wake.
    RoninFin4, smahtaz and Brasfin like this.
  18. JimToss

    JimToss Thank You Chad Pennington

    Oct 11, 2009
    Take down the poll...seems as though the question has been answered about well as possible from anyone but Kevin Coyle.

    Thanks Ronin.
    RoninFin4 likes this.
  19. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

    Dec 2, 2007
    This so much. No more clean pockets and much less room to move around to avoid Wake.
  20. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Sep 13, 2011
    Jupiter, Fl.

    Coyle might vote: "Drop him in coverage...."
    Bpk and dolphin25 like this.
  21. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    PFF did a review of how Suh lined up and his pass rushing grades at the position:


    Last year Suh was largely the left defensive tackle. He lined up largely at different techniques on the right side. I think there's value to moving him around though.
    MrClean, RoninFin4, Bpk and 2 others like this.
  22. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

    Nov 27, 2008
    Move them both so the opposing team never has an idea where its coming from

    imagine having to prepare for that scenario
  23. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2013
    Plantation, Fl
    I voted to spread the love. Get him & Wake apart so there is consistent pressure from the end & the middle. Instead of overloading one side, Give Vernon the help and make both sides stronger.
  24. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    Mar 22, 2008
    I read on twitter that Coyle wants him to play DE.
    ToddPhin and Bpk like this.
  25. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

    Nov 1, 2009
    This just put a huge smile on my face.
    dolphin25 likes this.
  26. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

    Mar 21, 2013
    Might depend on the skills and development of the young guys who may be seeing snaps this year. We may want to run some base 3-4 sets where Suh is right over center and Fede and Jordan are playing 5-tech's with Wake and Vernon at the 9 tech's, especially if there center is weak and their guards are slow footed.

    I would also use Suh at the goal line for both power rushing and to be the guy who leaps over the pile. Suh had a standing vertical of 36 inches. How would you like to be the DB/LB responsible for meeting Suh head-on in the air. Might as well get our money's worth.
  27. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

    Nov 26, 2007
    Hamilton, Ontario Canada
    Man it would be nice to have that Saban version of J.T. back to play with Suh. Where they let J.T. just float across the line and let him freelance and pick his gaps.

    In the meantime.....let Suh find every offenses version of Dallas Thomas and let em rip.
    2socks likes this.
  28. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

    Apr 27, 2013
    Something I hadn't thought of before, we might not even need a power RB after all... :lol:
    Bpk likes this.
  29. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    Apr 22, 2014
    Suh himself had this to say about playing with Wake:

    “Man, I’ve been watching that guy for many, many years, he’s a special defensive end,” Suh said. “I look forward to, one, playing next to him, but opposite of. Because if you understand this game and understand how it works, when you have a dominant defensive end on the other side of you and you guys are meeting at the quarterback, it’s really tough for that guy on the side of the ball who’s trying to throw it and hand it off to the running back. I’m excited to be lined up next to and opposite of Cameron Wake.”

    CWBIII, MrClean, Sleepy and 3 others like this.
  30. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

    Dec 2, 2007
    Kansas City, MO
    I'm a defensive genius.

    I don't think it makes sense to commit to playing Wake and Suh next to each other 100% of the time. You now have two premiere players along the defensive line. You could - and IMO should - use that by moving both of them around, sometimes they're on the left, sometimes on the right, sometimes there's a player in between them. That way you keep the offensive line on their toes and you can maximize the impact of both players with the use of stunts and other defensive calls.

    Just my two cents.
    Bpk likes this.
  31. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

    Dec 2, 2007
    And he will get a pick 6 and destroy would be tacklers in the process.
  32. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

    Dec 20, 2007
    Chesapeake, Virginia
    Remember when Ogunleye was playing opposite JT? Maybe this will be OVs season to break out because I can see the opposing QB's rolling to OV's side to get away from Wake and Suh. If OV blows it up we could have one of the most devastating defensive lines to come along in many years. If DJ comes around it could be even more so. I would love to have opposing offensive lines and quarterbacks having nightmares about facing our defensive front!
    MikeHoncho likes this.
  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    Dec 11, 2007
    Man do I wish we traded Ogunleye for Washington's first round pick.

    Still, OV has improved every season he has played. I do not believe he has reached his peak. This year we should see how well he can improve. I am interested to see. He is working out with Wake this year. Wake's workouts have done an amazing job with him and his nutrition is top notch.
  34. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

    Nov 13, 2009
    RoninFin4, Deerless Dice and Bpk like this.
  35. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Inside Coyle's head.... "They'll never expect it!"

    Opposing coach on sideline, "Be ready for Coyle to try to drop Suh into coverage. As soon as he does hit Edelman on the crosser."
  36. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

    Nov 27, 2008
    Thanks for agreeing with my earlier post. I too am a defensive genius, although I coach the Offensive Line
    Bpk likes this.
  37. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    I think that they'll vary it up, but when you like Suh and Wake up next to one another, the other team cannot dedicate four men to stop them, so on a traditional passing play look, they're going to give the other team trouble A LOT of the time. You line up Suh against a weaker guard though, and have him blow up the other team's offense the way that Jacksonville did to us when College tried to play through a concussion. It would be a beautiful kind of ugly.

    A13OVEAVERAGE Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Aug 13, 2013
    Frostproof, FL
    ToddPhin and 2socks like this.
  39. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin Active Member

    Play him over the weakest guard.
  40. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Oct 30, 2013
    Oh, so we are going Full Haynesworth after all.

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