The only good thing about the slow offseason, our optimism can be high.
But I also believe Daboll has potential. We will see improvement, especially if our rookies can make an impact.

 

''well spank my *** and call me suzy''..

This is what we call addition by subtraction. I watched his first game on a rewind and came away impressed..He used every formation in the book, and he sequenced those transitions at the appropriate times, {wildcat was used in running situations perfectly}..Delhomme executed from the pocket mostly and the plays called were all over the field..he really had the buc's defense off balance all game, and to me thats a sign of someone who has a good feel, someone who is unpredictable..Getting the ball in what playmakers they had, was obvious..I like this offense for Henne because I know the dude can make any throw from the pocket because of his excellent arm talent.

Success depends so much on the players talent...We have better offensive talent across the board..

 

Sounded like Kosar had some positive comments about Pryor too.

 

I was very positive about the Daboll signing from the very beginning. The guy has been around and impressed some of the best football minds of this era. I think far too much was made of his one year as OC for a bad team plagued by injuries and with an absence of talent at the skill positions playing in a very tough division. Not to make light of it, as that was his only experience as an OC, but I think the guy clearly deserves a chance to show what he can do. And I think Miami seems like a great fit for him. The fact that he's also known as being good with quarterbacks just makes the deal that much sweeter.

 

Me too. Never had any apprehension on the Daboll hire, or the Bryan Cox hire for that matter. I'm neutral on Dan Campbell as TE coach, but not comfortable with Steve Bush as WR coach and Karl Dorrell as QB coach,

 

Remember the long threads in the Club Level when he got hired? The sky was falling lol.

 

I still don't see why anyone should really consider Brian Daboll a "good" hire. Other than optimism, or the natural inclination of coaches to circle the wagon for other coaches.

Let's have some objectivity here. I'll be the first to say that evaluating coaching hires is basically akin to palmistry, and so you won't find me betting on the fact that Brian Daboll is a bad offensive coordinator. But the simple fact of the matter is, his offenses in Cleveland were terrible. They were bad. They had a great left tackle, a good 1st round center, some solid OLs (sounding familiar?), Peyton Hillis was running like a man possessed, Colt McCoy is playing well enough that some people are crediting Brian Daboll for how well he brought him along...and yet what were they, 31st in scoring? And I'll say this. I watched nearly all of Seneca Wallace's snaps at quarterback this year, and he was a lot better than people think...and of course, there's Peyton Hillis to be reckoned with, Ben Watson having the best year of his career...and yet they're not scoring points. You tell me what was missing there. Was the receivers unit really THAT bad, or are people merely saying so because they're running out of real estate to place the blame?

I've long held the opinion, rightly or wrongly, that in this league the talent margins are so close to one another (unlike college), that coaching ALONE should be able to pick a unit up from the bottom of the league into the low 20's, regardless of how relatively (and I do mean relatively, see the margin statement above) untalented a unit is.

It doesn't say much for Brian Daboll that he's been passed around the league like a joint and still the highlights of his accomplishment are helping Brett Favre have the worst year of his career (sandwiched in between two of the best years of his career), and guiding two offenses to league ignominy.

The sky is falling? Give me a break. Calling a spade a spade doesn't necessarily deserve that kind of ridicule. Caution is the most appropriate response to Daboll's hire.

 

Relax. I said the sky is falling because some of the people were flipping **** before knowing anything about him.

 

I think if we hit on Pouncey and Thomas, we'll be in good shape. And those are two positions that I would say have a higher rate of success than others.

 

But when does the "hit" manifest itself? First year? Pretty rare. Will this regime survive if they don't manifest in the first year?

 

In the case of Pouncey, I think being a capable starter as a rookie will suffice. In the case of Thomas, I think he needs to make an impact. He's a RB, and there really shouldn't be much of a curve afforded to him.

 

And yet the league is absolutely littered with running backs who were much better in their 2nd year than 1st year. For some reason it seems to me that people have unruly expectations of rookie running backs every year. Tailbacks have a learning curve. Just because it's shorter than other positions doesn't mean it's non-existent, as you'll most often find people implying in their arguments. Ray Rice didn't light anything up his first year. LaDainian Tomlinson had what like 3.6 yards per carry his 1st year? Chris Johnson didn't explode until 2nd year. Darren McFadden not until 3rd year. Ricky Williams was crap as a rookie. Mike Ditka made the same mistake too many people make, assuming that tailbacks come right out of the box ready to dominate. The learning curve at tailback is statistically trackable.

And as for Mike Pouncey, the offensive line is notoriously a position with a long learning curve. How many more impactful blocks do you expect a rookie Mike Pouncey to have than Joe Berger last year?

The reality is your drafts don't impact you much in the first year. Hell you're lucky if you get maximum impact out of a veteran free agent in his first year. If anyone on the Dolphins is moving the needle personnel-wise, it's much more likely to be a guy that was already on the roster than a guy that wasn't. Maybe that's Chad Henne. I doubt it, but it fits. Maybe it's Brian Hartline, or Brandon Marshall who explodes and makes the Marshall of 2010 look mediocre. Maybe it's Karlos Dansby, who turns in the finest year of a pretty fine career. Maybe it's Paul Soliai, who goes from upper echelon to hands down the best nose tackle in football. Maybe it's Sean Smith, who this year catches the majority of that dozen or so balls that he dropped in 2010. Maybe it's Vontae Davis, who goes from being a premium cornerback half the year to being a premium cornerback the whole year.

I still say that drafting for immediate impact is a fallacy. I would target Year 3 as the peak year for drafted players (with the exception of tailback which I would move to Year 2) and Year 2 as the peak year for most veteran free agents.

I wouldn't look for Mike Pouncey and Daniel Thomas to have big impacts now. If things turn around, I really think it's going to be about guys that were already here...maybe toss in some better coaching.

 

We aren't talking about being a 1000 yd rusher. Shonn Greene had something like 500 yds with 5ypc as a rookie. Ronnie Brown had 900 yds as a rookie. I recall guys like Clinton Portis and Edgerrin James and Fred Taylor having great rookie seasons. A lot of it has to do with opportunity. I think if Thomas can give you 700-800 yds, that will be a impactful contribution.

In regards to Pouncey, he was the 15th overall pick, which is the highest I can recall a center being drafted. Guys like Mangold, Mack, and Maurkice Pouncey have all recently had success as rookies at the position.

 

Having to play three different quarterbacks in any given years is not going to do much to help your offense. You say they still played well, and you point to Peyton Hillis running like a man possessed as if Daboll should have benefited from that when he was probably the cause for that.

And you can say he was passed around the league like a joint or you can say he was so coveted by people that he moved up the ladder quickly. Saban recommended him to BB. Mangini, after working with him in New England, made it a point to bring him to New York and then to Cleveland.

I just think there are two sides to the coin you're flipping. Like Alen, I think there are enough positives to not be flipping out. Your wariness is well-founded, but there were a lot of people not making arguments the way you are and just being reactionary when this all went down.

 

Passing opinions off as a fact, eh?

The sky was falling to some... whether their reaction was appropriate is yet to be determined.

 

Obviously there are...well I hate to use the word "excuses" because it seems to offend people...but there's some rationalization for his offenses being bad. But that's not the same as a real positive reason to think he's good. The offensive coordinator's job is to put points on the board, not make individual players look good for ESPN. If Brian Daboll thinks he did his job because Peyton Hillis ran wild, rather than thinking he failed because the Browns were 31st in scoring, then he's not the coach that I want on my staff. How do all these players look good, and yet the offense as a unit looks so bad? It's a similar situation to Miami. But notice that Miami's offensive coordinator was run out of town on a rail...while the guy that was basically in the same situation comes in and we're supposed to be optimistic about him.

 

I have no idea what he thinks of his performance. I too would hope that he wasn't satisfied. I'm sure he's stated as much to the press at some point or another.

As far as the Miami/Cleveland comparisons, I think we have a lot more weapons than Cleveland did. But also, I think it's only natural for the young kid just starting out his career as a coordinator to be given a little more leeway than the old guy with a foot out the door who got talked into coming back for one more season.

 

So you're saying old Bernie has been hitting the bottle again?
(to no one's shock of course)

 

Kosar isn't an NFL assistant coach, far as I know, so his speaking highly of Daboll doesn't amount to wagon circling.

 

Helluva post. You're a pretty smart guy when you're not talking about Henne :tongue2:.

 

We had pretty decent luck with high draft picks contributing as rookies. Jake, Langford, Davis, Smith and Misi all gave at least a solid contribution as rookies. Donald Thomas and Jared Odrick likely would have if not for injuries. John Jerry's impact would have been better if not for his mystery illness.
I see no reason to expect less, barring injury from Pouncey or Thomas.

 

I think the guys life has pretty much been involved with football.
Just sayin.

 

The knee jerk reaction on the sky is falling is easy to see gettings a OC from the Browns, Its not the name Daboll that really hits you first its the Browns past decade that comes to mind first. So after relizing Dabolls history was very short with that organazation is a little easier to swallow and might have potential.

 

IMO Henning was so bad last year that any hire would be an upgrade. It seemed to me that at times it became a pissing contest where Henning was calling plays that he knew Henne hated and/or struggled with just to show he was in charge. I also thought that the timing and use of many plays was often really poor. I really think that our offense might have been better if had used a magic 8-ball or a random play generator. As for Daboll, I thought that he did a good job of recognizing Hillis' ability and using him in a way that helped him achieve success. I belive that if Hillis had been in Miami last year he would have ended up on the bench or used only sporadically in short yardage situations. I also believe that Daboll did a good job of protecting his QBs and using mutiple formations and attacks to stop the offense from becoming overly predictable. So I see the offense as benefitting from addition by subtraction from the retirement of Henning and I see Daboll as an addition on his own b/c he seems like a good fit. I also wouldn't rely simply on scoring as a measure of OC effectiveness b/c my impression when I watched Cleveland was that there defense was really bad at getting opponents off the field. I would guess that Cleveland may have had fewer offensive plays than most teams. Obviously the number of plays is a factor of both the offensive and defensive efficiency so it's difficult to make any conclusions from just that stat (if they in fact had fewer offensive plays), but my impression from watching a few games was that the defense was much worse at getting off the field rather than the offense being bad at staying on the field. The point is that is that it may be a bit simplistic to point to scoring and blaming it solely on the OC.

 

all we really know is his offenses in Cleveland were terrible. things change, people change, situations change but he was a disaster in Cleveland. what he'll do in Miami remains to be seen.

 

Did Bernie sound drunk?

 

It's going to be difficult for Daboll and/or the rookies to shine this season with the lockout.

I believe that Pouncey will be at least very solid or better because, after being drafted, he said he will be where and when Mr Long wants him. That means he is in our workouts, and under Big Jake's wing. No worries there.

Thomas has talent, and if there is blocking, will produce. He will make an impact, regardless of who we get in FA.

Then, there are questions. If Gates and/or Clay can make some plays, I'll be happy. I don't expect all that much this year.

Back to Daboll. If he can make Henne into a bit above average QB, he will have had success. Anything past that is optimistic but, could happen.

 

He seemed a little out of breath to me.

 

I'am worried about other teams not having to implement a new offense and how big of an advantage that really is.

 

I've listened to Bernie on air a lot and many times I'd catch myself thinking he sounds drunk. It has to be a speach impediment. At least I hope so. He's made some terrible buisiness decisions recently, and he filed for bankruptcy. He had a nice Steak House by my friends job. We talked all the time about trying it. So the day we decide to go, we pull up and there is a note on the door. This establishment has been closed by force.

Some say he's been a smart buisiness man but all that makes me wonder if drinking himself into a depressed state of not paying his bills is part of it.

 

IMO it won't be as big a deal as some may think, provided there's a full training camp and preseason. The starters and backups are going to see increased reps in practice as the coaches try to get them up to speed. The preseason games will be taken more seriously by the teams looking to do new installs. Instead of vanilla plays and misinformation, we may actually see some of the grade A stuff as the OC tries to get a feel for what looks good and what doesn't. Who I worry about is the roster bubble guys, UDFAs and other reserves. They're not going to get many reps and barring injury, wont get much of a chance to show what they can do.

I'm surprised people are still banging the competition for Henne drum, IMO the ship has damn near sailed. We'll barely have time to get 1 QB ready to play by Week 1, the idea that we'll have time for a full fledged install and (fair) QB competition w/ 2 different QBs, that'd take some magic.

 

It will be a big advantage, Guaranteed, DJ. HOWEVER, chances are Nolan is going to have the same 11 guys on D as he had last year, with a year for him and them to learn. IMO, that more than balances the books.

The wolf pups are HOWLING, they are more than ready for bigger game. Count on it!!!

 

GM, In all due respect, there is no way in hell Daboll can put in what he wants to with the lockout.

That being said, he does not have to. All he has to do is to make Henne an average, or better, QB.

 

I wonder if there are ways to indirectly communicate with your players {Daboll to Henne} without breaking the rules, messengers of sort.?..

What I can't believe is, that for those teams who had offseason workouts, will not have an advantage of those who didn't..and there's a lot of those...I mean for example, The Jets, all they have is some players in Cali that sanchez has brought out, and the Patriots have not met at all up until I last checked.

 

I would bet that Mr Bill, and his Patsies, have things well in hand. I am going to REALLY ENJOY kicking their *** in game #1.

 

I got the saints winning the whole thing for the very reasons I stated...new orleans almost fully together with Brees handlin business... Packers, a soft ball game. I don't think you can give a team that good that kind of advantage..

 

Pain pills