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WR's who make the team

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fin-Omenal, Jul 31, 2012.

  1. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    I show a 1st time GM the same respect we typically show a 1st round pick-- 3 year learning curve.
    I really don't care what he did or didn't do during those 3 years b/c I didn't expect him to be a polished, veteran GM right out the gate.
    Plus, it's not like he didn't have someone there with greater authority who could essentially step in at will during his grooming process (which Parcells was stated as doing IIRC).

    Blaming Ireland for his first 3 years under Parcells is like blaming a toddler for his behavior in a grocery store rather than the parent who should be watching over him. Just as the parent should be in charge, Parcells was ultimately in charge here.
    What matters most is what Ireland did when Parcells stepped away and the training wheels were taken off and what he continues to do from this season forward.



    It's possible Jeff had this vision of the team dating back 2 seasons ago when he droolingly had Tannehill pegged as a 1st rounder.
    When the draft rolled around and we weren't in position for the top 2011 QBs, he could've very well determined at that moment that Tanny is his desired future, and rather than trading up for Ponder or Locker, he started working on both Tanny's future protection and the offensive skill players both he and the new zone-blocking WCO would need by drafting Pouncey, a big physical zone RB to help shoulder the load in Thomas, a speed WR weapon in Gates, and a versatile HBack in Clay.
    This year he followed it up further by hiring the perfect HC for Tanny in Philbin, his TA&M HC to be his offensive coordinator, his TA&M QB coach, a vet QB to help ease his transition if needed. Then focused again on Tanny's protection with Martin and gave him more weapons in Egnew, Miller, Matthews, and signed his TA&M WR, Fuller.

    Ireland could've bombed everything he did from '08 to '10 but he deserves to be lauded for how sensitively & methodically he's been with Ryan, as well as identifying his talent 2 seasons ago, keeping it under wraps, and then having the balls to pull the string at #8. If he continues on this current path, he's a keeper IMO.
     
  2. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Since when did the KKK get such a modern makeover?














    :shifty:
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Wow, this is the first real love I've heard for Chris Hogan other than a report of a catch here or there, but it was some pretty effusive praise.

    When the Finsiders archive the interview of Jimmy Wilson in studio, it's worth watching. First off, O.J. McDuffie and Troy Stradford asked some pretty great, pointed questions. Stradford said there's usually one guy that gives you a lot of trouble in camp, who is Jimmy's guy that gives him trouble? Stradford actually phrased it a little different, backed off the idea of it being a guy that gives you trouble, asked him to just tell us about some guys. Jimmy said forget that, I'll just go right ahead and say, I don't even know his name but #81, all over the place. He then went on to talk about how he did things last year, always gets the job done, etc.
     
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  4. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Ive said many times, this looks like a helluva draft and will define Jeff. But I cant assume the dude was looking 2 years down the road at Tannehill, when he was not even sure he would have a job here. Im not a Jeff fan or hater, Im kind of neutral actualy. But no progress by these rookies and we have a bad year then its time to move on IMO.
     
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  5. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    I'm neither a hater nor a legit fan yet, but I'd like to have a reason to be the latter.
    Given the mess this team has been through and Jeff's general lesser level of experience, I think he's off to a decent start from '10 and '11, but like you say--- these 2 drafts will likely either make or break him. I hope they pan out, not specifically for Ireland's sake, but b/c Miami and the fans need it.


    As far as thinking ahead 2 years ago. I absolutely believe it's possible b/c IMO he seems like that chess-playing, methodical type of thinker and seems to be highly intelligent. However, that doesn't mean I think it begets success on its own merit.
     
  6. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    Holy crap, how'd we get to this topic again?
     
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  7. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Ted Ginn was a better pick than Brady Quinn.
    Jason Allen didn't suck because of position changes.
    With a better QB Chris Chambers would be in the HOF
    Jake Long was the right pick over Matt Ryan
    Sparano was fired about 2 years too late.
    Nick Saban is not a ----, he just folded a bad hand.
    Parcells is/was overrated.
    Sam Madison was better than Pat Surtain.
    Zach Thomas would've sucked as a Saftey.

    What did I miss?
     
  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    It was my fault. I apologized earlier.

     
  9. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    This is MYYYYY thread!

    Go off topic and beat dead horses all you people want. Show me a polite debate, and I'll show you a bad debate.
     
  10. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    yea that's concerning. can someone explain to me how waiting until the 6th round to address the WR position makes any sense whatsoever? especially after trading away your only legit playmaker at the position and failing to replace him with any real talent in free agency? now both guys Ireland drafted probably wont even make the team.

    i didn't agree with the Jonathan Martin pick, i think he can become a good tackle but i also think it would have made more sense to take the best WR available, like a Stephen Hill or Rueben Randle, either of those guys would easily be the most talented WR on our team. we can roll with Murtha at RT. the Jets took Hill right after we took Martin, im sure they were ecstatic to see us pass on him.
     
  11. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    you are just like the Dolphins.. you missed Drew Brees.
     
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  12. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Yeah, but not twice.What if Drew Brees over Culpeper?Bear vs Gorilla?Are nipples on over 50% of the human population necessary?
     
  13. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Very easy.
    A. Each team is only allowed so many draft picks.
    B. 31 other teams are also drafting.
    C. You stick to your board. Period.


    A. RT was the biggest weakness of our team last year, and you can't place your eggs in young Murtha's basket after he just missed an entire season. Martin was viewed as tremendous value considering he carried a 1st round grade by most.
    B. Ensuring the protection of your #8 pick QB trumps all.
    C. Taking QB protection for granted is silly.
    D. The offense is transitioning to a zone scheme and needs the appropriate linemen for that before it can truly be effective, and your Oline is more important than a 2nd round WR.
    E. Jake Long has been injury plagued lately, and he's in a contract year. Staying healthy and being re-signed shouldn't be taken for granted.
    F. Hill could take a few years to develop, whereas Martin could be an upgrade early in the season.
    G. Philbin stated that having a #1 WR is NOT a prerequisite for his offense.
    H. It doesn't matter what the Jets are or aren't ecstatic about.

    When you add it all up, Martin was the right pick. He's a guy who not only should become a stud RT but will also serve as a quality LT should Long become injured, which is a great insurance policy if we're going to be throwing the ball a lot and want to keep Tannehill upright.
    What happens if Long & Murtha get injured again? Who becomes our bookends? Exactly.
     
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  14. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Saw that interview too. Cool article popped up about him. Didnt know he was held in such high regard by scouts....and had no idea he was white.

    http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2011/04/monmouths_chris_hogan_goes_fro.html
     
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Chris hogan started out the first practice terribly, he dropped 2 passes out of the gate, then because of so many reps being handed out, he got a chance to redeem himself, and he did, however, I couldn't really tell if it was just because of the amount of reps going on, or that he was making plays, everyone was catching a lot, which makes a bit harder to decipher the talent.
     
  16. seabass0795

    seabass0795 New Member

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    These guys are all showing skill in camp but if I had to guess here goes

    1. Chad Johnson
    2. Davine Bess
    3. Legedu Naanee
    4. Brian Hartline
    5. Roberto Wallace
    6. Julius Pruitt
     
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  17. edromeo

    edromeo New Member

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    Didn't read the whole thread, but have a question.

    How is Edmund Clyde Gates doing?
    That dude has an incredible physical skillset for a WR.
     
  18. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    slower to develop than we had hoped
    great physical skill set but yet to be physical
     
  19. seabass0795

    seabass0795 New Member

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    I have only been to one camp so I dont know how he has played overall but that first day there was bad qb-wr communication with him and alldeep passes to him were incomplete, some his fault some not.
    I also read that he hurt his hamstring I think if I am not mistaken so his speed, his best weapon, has been lacking the last few days
     
  20. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    1. Maybe no Super Bowl yet, but our W-L record from 2006 on would be over .500
    2. An average adult Grizzly would tear apart the baddest gorilla that ever walked.
    3. YES!!!
     
  21. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Couldn't have said it better myself.
    Stephen Hill isn't even running with the 1s up in Cortland yet, from what I've seen and heard.
    Martin has been the #1 RT since camp opened. He draws unsolicited praise from the veteran linemen.
    3-4 years from now Hill may be a Pro Bowler, and Martin no more than an average RT...BUT...right now it is far too soon to say he was a mistake to take over Hill, Randle or anyone else.

    Sort of like calling Daniel Thomas a bad pick based on an average rookie season, as rookie seasons for RBs go.
     
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  22. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He's just typical size. His one redeeming quality is his blazing speed. I don't think that alone is enough to say he has an "incredible" skillset for a WR.
     
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  23. gandalfin

    gandalfin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Apparently Hartline and Gates are still sidelined with their injuries. These two better be concerned about being left behind. Between the appendectomy and the current injury, Hartline has essentially no work with this new offense. How patient will the coaching staff be?

    Gates has only missed a few days, but he needs every opportunity he can get to prove he belongs on the roster.

    If I was either of these guys I'd be getting pretty antsy.
     
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  24. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Agree, I think its either Nanee or Hartline at this point and not both.
     
  25. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Gates had better be concerned but I think it would be a little absurd at this point for Hartline to have to be concerned over his roster spot or even his spot on the depth chart.

    He, Bess and Chad Johnson are the only three players that have actual NFL tape of NFL games you can pop in and say, that's a pretty impressive player. The idea that guys like Legedu Naanee, Roberto Wallace, Julius Pruitt, Jeff Fuller, Rishard Matthews or B.J. Cunningham are going to supplant him just because for once in his career he's dealing with some minor injuries during camp...to me, that's absurd. But to each his own.
     
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  26. gandalfin

    gandalfin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't really know how much latitude Hartline will be given considering how much practice he's missed. What you say makes sense though. He is a veteran player and after all, Philbin himself stated that the offense is basically simple.
     
  27. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    1) Bess
    2) Naanee
    3) Pruitt
    4) Wallace
    5) Johnson

    This coaching staff is not tied to keeping Hartline. He is in the last year of his contract and if he doesn't recover from his injury soon, I could see the Dolphins cutting or possible trading him. I feel Pruitt and Wallace have far more up side than Hartline anyway. I don't see any of the receivers drafted this past off season or any of the free agent rookie wide receivers making the final roster. I also don't see Gates making the roster. He may be fast but he just doesn't appear to a quality NFL WR going forward. I would also rather see Lamar Miller returning kicks than Gates.
     
  28. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I would be floored if Hartline didn't make the team.
     
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  29. agproducer

    agproducer New Member

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    Don't sell Fuller short. He's got the size and speed to make it in the NFL. After his junior year at A&M, there was talk he may be a second round pick. But, he came back for his senior year, had some nagging injuries and it caused him to miss some of his explosiveness. he Dolphins got him as a bargain as an UFA. I wouldn't be surprised if he took the 3rd or 4th WR position.
     
  30. Sam

    Sam Member

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    I would think having a hard set number of players at a certain position making the team, may not necessarily take into account the team typically keeping several players because of their special team prowess; It's not inconceivable that a player, like Pruitt, could be on the roster mainly for that purpose, possibly having seven receivers. Obviously it also applies to other positions like the TE, safety, corner, etc.
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think it's just easy to forget what he's done. But can you really watch the following from start to finish, and then with a straight face talk about guys like Julius Pruitt or Legedu Naanee pushing him off the roster?

    [video=youtube;n9GqPAJlY4U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9GqPAJlY4U[/video]
     
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  32. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    i really woudn't care, he is expendable.
     
  33. gandalfin

    gandalfin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I consider Hartline to be a good, not great receiver. He does some things great, like working the sidelines, but he also has some things about his play that are not so great like his inability to keep his feet sometimes. If something happened where he didn't make the team he would be missed, no question. He does make plays. I was just concerned that if he really had to take a long time to recover from this injury, how much latitude would he be given? Omar stated he was looking better so hopefully it will never be an issue.
     
  34. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You dont cut Hartline, he isnt expendable unless you are saying you only need 3 receivers. The fact that you say he can make the tip toe sideline catch means you admit there are things he brings to the table of value. Now to make him expendable, do we have someone that replaces that? So lets say you believe yes, does then are you improving the team or are you just supplanting? I think Hartline has proven enough that he gets the benefit of the doubt. Gates I have hope for but he is one that has more to prove
     
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  35. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Love dependable guys like Hartline. Seems tough, even tho he goes down so easily. Would like to see him fight harder to break a tackle or two. Seems to wear tap dancing shoes on gameday.
     
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  36. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    Holly, trip over your own feet, Batman
     
  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I would be mildly surprised. Definitely not floored.
     
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  38. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    I guess it's easier to be drawn to the exciting players like WR and think they're more important than the big uglies in the trenches.
    I remember when I was like that when I was a young lad.
    For Tannehill, my biggest personnel priority would be to ensure he feels protected so he doesn't develop any bad habits nor have his development stunted.
    Agree on Thomas; judging him based on his rookie year is quite unfair considering he's a developmental guy, one who was a little dinged up was he not?
     
  39. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    I wouldn't be floored either, mainly b/c it would mean our overall talent level at the position has improved, no?
     
  40. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I'd put the chances of Hartline being cut at about 0 percent.

    I'd also say that he is not a good WR in the league, or anywhere close to good. Welker, Maclin, Nicks, Bowe, Brandon Marshall, Colston, Steve Jackson, Wayne, etc. Those are good WRs. Then you have great WRs like Megatron, Larrry Fitz and Dre Johnson. Hartline is nowhere in the building, he's not even in the parking lot.

    IMO Hartline is the type of WR that can put up respectable numbers IF he's seeing a steady diet of 1 on 1 or soft zone coverage (i.e. CK's video). But if/when teams double him (never happened b/c of Marshall) or dispense with safe coverages (in the scoring area), guys like Hartline disappear.

    With no Marshall on the field and no one else to double, teams will have the option of doubling either Hartline or Bess on just about every snap, if they are not using that extra guy to generate additional pressure, force our backs/TE's to stay in and help protect etc.

    IF Hartline can consistently make plays w/o Marshall there to draw the defense's attention, then I prefer hot sauce sauce on my crow.
     
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