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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Frumundah Finnatic, Nov 25, 2013.
How old are you? When did you first seriously begin to watch football?
Never had 1000.
But he did indeed.
Al Bundy, the character, played Fullback for Polk High. unlike our beloved phinsational, who played QB, at Mayberry High, or where ever it was. Ed O'Neill, the actor though, was a DL at Youngstown State, and went to training camp with the Steelers in, IIRC, 1969. There was a more well known college player of that era, named Ed O'Neil, one L, who played LB at Penn State, and was in the NFL for a while after being the 8th overall pick in 1974.
Perhaps the phoniest 1,000 yard rusher in history. 3.6 yards per carry.
really have not read throught the entire thread (cause it was giving me a head ache) but this post pretty much sums it up. Wallace was flat on his chest at the 1 1/2 yard line with the DB on him... all catching that ball does is pad stats...
The inability to find good quality backs over the past few decades has been maddening...besides rick
There's a huge difference between making a completion and making a great throw. I didn't record the game so I'm working from memory alone here, but let's start with the 4 deep passes to Wallace. On the first two, he had single coverage and he jogs off the LOS both times; the only difference being that he was played fairly tight at the line on one and had a huge cushion on the other. He does this for two reasons- (1) to set up proper timing for the play (so he's not breaking while TH is dropping back) and (2) to lull his defender into a false sense of security. As he's taking the first few steps, the corner is running backwards while watching the QB, not fully committing to Wallace. After a few steps though, Wallace kicks it into high gear and bolts...literally.
At the 1.3 second mark (again, I'm guessing here because I don't have the plays in front of me...I watched them each about a dozen times yesterday though), Wallace breaks and you see him staring down Ryan with his hands in the air waving frantically. He's only ran 7-10 yards at this point but he's dead even with the corner, who's still halfway turned, and Wallace knows that he will have a 3-5 yard cushion within the next two strides. The time to throw this pass is right now, at around the 1.5-2.0 second mark and it's going to be about a 30 yard completion through the air...with nobody around to catch Wallace the rest of the way. We both know that the first two passes were 50+ yards in the air though, which would have been fine if Wallace was hit in stride. Yes, they were both caught so the point may seem moot, but we easily left 7 points on the field on the non-TD throw. Google "Rothlesberger Wallace TD" to see what I mean, there are dozens of plays where the ball is thrown to perfection and Wallace is gone.
On the third deep pass, Carolina realized that Wallace was deadly and double teamed him. This changes the timing because you either have to hit Wallace early (after he smokes the corner, before he reaches the safety) or you have to let the route develop (which we normally don't have the protection for). If you watch Wallace's route on this throw, he slows for a step as he passes the safety and looks back for the ball. It was incomplete but I honestly think it was the most precise ball thrown to Wallace all year; if he had looked a quarter-second earlier then the ball was there in stride.
The fourth pass to Wallace was completely different because there's no timing involved; he ran his route and there was nothing there. At this point, it's a wing and a prayer because two players need to communicate perfectly, despite being 40+ yards apart. Wallace had a good idea, he was breaking towards the left side of the endzone since it would give him maximum separation and great visibility, but Tannehill didn't see it and heaved it straight down the middle. Wallace had to spin around to get in position and completely take his eyes off the ball, which is why he didn't make the grab. In my opinion, your star receiver better pull that pass in all day long but it was a very difficult catch that was thrown to the wrong part of the field. It's nobody's fault on a busted play, mind you, but it shows that they weren't on the same page in that type of situation. Still, that was a great heave in any circumstance.
Someone also brought up the slant pass in the 4th quarter and this is an excellent example of the problem. I can't remember how deep the route was but when Wallace breaks across the center of the field, he has a lot of space to work with. If the ball was thrown ahead of him, then it could have easily been like one of those plays in the quote I asked you to Google. The pass was a 1/4 second off though and it left Wallace turning for a pass at full speed...which is the entire offensive problem. Even if he makes the catch, he's getting nailed and not going anywhere.
In terms of yards after the catch (YAC), our top dawg is Clay with 257 yards on 46 receptions. That's 5.5 yards YAC and this guy is a bulldozer, meaning it doesn't really matter if he's wide open or not to get the extra yardage. If you look at the league leaders in that stat, Miami only has one player in the top 50 (Clay) and three in the top 100 (Clay, Hartline, Wallace) despite being one of the heaviest pass-play reliant teams in football. This is another huge tell towards what I was illustrating above; the ball is not being placed where our receivers can make a play. I'm not trying to knock Tannehill but it is what it is; he's inaccurate on timing patterns in general unless he's throwing a rocket to the sideline. The only problem with those throws, however, is that there's no YAC there either.
I agree with most of that, good stuff, I do think Wallace misjudged the trajectory of the ball, thus turning his body and unnecessarily made the degree of difficulty go up 10 fold.
You mean he is cheating on Lauren or lining up some threesomes? The dog rape though, that would be Mike Vick.
It is rather humorous though how any critique of Tannehill is defined as blind hatred.
Don't wanna join in all the fun?
Without knowing exactly what plays your referring to this isnt really all that helpful, but I appreciate the thought and effort. However what I think you're failing to realize, its easy to say that at the 1.3 second mark or whatever of this and that play he shoudl have thrown the ball, but I know for sure on two on those deep balls, its easy to see when the time for Ryan to throw is, however he's unable to throw at that point in time because he's either still carrying out an ill timed playfake, or too deep of a drop back or whatever nonsense Sherman's play is calling for. So its easy to say, throw the ball now! But uh... from what I, and others saw on Sunday, it was impossible for him to do so because he's still turning around after a playfake when the ball needs to be thrown, that's not a knock on him, that's your coaching staff, in particular the OC. I think what we see alot of is Wallace improvising on his routes out there alot which is throwing things off timing wise too likely.
I get what you're saying in regards to the YAC situation... however I dont particularly think our WR's are that great after the catch anyways. Hartline in particular. Alot of these short passes we've been throwing are simply meant as well to be a substitute for our inability to run the ball, that factors in here as well. We're not really getting guys wide open in space, because teams really dont have to play us to stop the run, just the pass, which to me makes what Ryan has been able to do with this awful OL and no running game even more impressive. He's got a long ways to go though still.
This forum always has the best self-crucifixions.
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Exactly, I don't know why people arent blaming Tannehill on this throw. If he throws it 10 yards to the left where Wallace would have been wide open we would have won. Instead he makes wallace turn around and lose the ball and wouldnt have made it to the endzone if he caught it anyways.
Because they are smart.
He was drilled while throwing the ball 60 yards down field. That's why people aren't blaming him.
Because the WR said in an interview he misplayed the ball?
I think I have socks that old......
To all those asking why "every little criticism about Tannerhill" gets label as a hater, I think you need to look no further than this:
Wallace said it was his fault. He said he didn't track the ball correctly. Yet, people are still blaming Tannehill. That is hate or agenda based, there is simply no other reason at this point.
First of all on the first two deep passes what was Ryan doing? As I recall both were play fakes and the first a sprint out. How the hell is Ryan going to throw the ball 1.5 seconds into a play like that? Wallace was not lulling the db into a false sense of security, he was faking run action.
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It's obvious Wallace turned the wrong way and misjudged the ball.he didn't have to go right,if he stayed on his original path he would of put himself in the best position relative to the ball flight,he didn't on a pretty amazing throw..whats there to argue?
There's always something to argue, on this board.
But I have no interest in arguing it anymore as Wallace's own admission killed the argument. He saw the ball take off and thought it was coming to the right hashmark which he was already at and so he thought he needed to turn up the field and then switch shoulders. He misjudged the ball as it was still going to the left hash mark where it was in all likelihood supposed to go by design of the team's scramble rules.
you guys are all hiliarious... What is Wallace supposed to say? "Ya if the ball was thrown out in front of where I was running, it would have been a touchdown easiliy."? Give me a break. And to think that on a scramble play Tannehill is only allowed to throw it at a certain hashmark is ridiculous. So if there are two defenders on the hashmark its supposed to go to, you just throw it there anyways? NO, you watch the play develop and throw it to where the reciever is going. And finally, he got hit because he held it a half second too long, as usual. If he puts air under it, throws it to the proper spot with anticipation, this thread doesnt exist.
I like Tannehill, but we wasted tons of money on a speederster who is getting WIDE open all game, because Tanne cant throw the long ball. One of the two will have to get cut if they don't turn it around by the end of next year. I hope they do.
and to morons that post replies like "because we are smart"... dude, you contribute absolutely zero to a thread with that stuff, what is the point? You might as well not post at all.
He didn't have to say anything. He could have said anything that didn't specifically state that he misjudged the ball in the air and that's why he looked over the wrong shoulder.
Really, really poor line of reasoning here. Shows very little understanding of what is being argued.
Scramble rules involve a set of rules about how receivers are supposed to tag (extend) their routes when the play gets into an extended time situation (i.e. the QB scrambles or buys more time). The rules are based on the route being run by the player at the beginning of the play, the coverage, and most likely the position of the quarterback.
Receivers do indeed have a set of rules based on these things for how they are supposed to tag their route, and in this case against a three-deep zone with Wallace having already gotten behind the deep defender in the middle zone, his tag was vertical.
I dont care what anyone says..the core is...it was one hell of a ****ing play by Tannehill. Launched from 33...
Ck..I read it was 68 yards in the air..on the run...is that accurate? Tell us how rare that throw is..
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That's why it's a message board.
I think it's really a silly argument to begin with. It was an amazing throw, a long chance of difficulty of being completed and Wallace erred.
I'd be much more willing to have a discussion about Tannehill's inadequacies throwing the deep ball on other throws in this game, this past year, and even a few last year.
While he didn't make that play, he made two other nice adjustments on a couple deep balls..curious, your take on the play that Philbin said both the Qb and Wallace completely blew? Happened around the fourth minute in the fourth?
What is there not to understand? You all think this was some amazing play, and I say it was a an S of a throw that was late coming out and in the wrong spot. And don't get me started on the overthrow in the 3rd quarter... This isnt new either, remember him overthrowing Hartline who was wide open at the end of the Raven's game? Tannehill sucks at throwing deep, time for everyone to just accept it. Either replace Tanne next year or find a cheaper fast guy to pull safeties for us, a decoy isnt worth what we are paying Wallace. Sorry but the truth hurts.
Your on complete crack if you think that was a **** throw. Not even worth arguing over..
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Thank god your uninformed and ridiculous opinion means diddly **** considering, Mike Wallace himself, said that play was his fault. You are wrong. Its ok though, it happens to all of us.
If you bothered to read what you quoted me on, Wallace was wide open at 1.3...only because he delayed his break due to the play action (which took around 1.5 seconds each on those 2 plays). I also said that the ball should be thrown between 1.5 and 2.0 seconds, not pushing the 4 second mark. Do you know what they call a NFL QB that takes 4 seconds (on average) to throw? The league-leader in sacks.
Again, I'm not trying to bash Tannehill here, I'm just not looking at things through aqua-colored glasses. His biggest weakness, by far, is timing his passes and it's an area where he either improves or makes it his downfall. There's not a team in the NFL (apparently besides us) that takes a QB that can't hit his receivers in stride though, so your savior is reaching the end of his "learning curve" in terms of team patience. For now he will get away with it but if it doesn't change, there's a really nice QB corp moving up next season.
I really don't know what there is to argue here. Tannehill has missed some throws but the guy is carrying the whole offense as has been stated over and over. You know he's going to hit some of those too. Get him some decent protection and a run game to rely on and move forward with him. Those were some LONG tosses.
I still see a ton of upside. The way he was moving in the pocket last week was much, much improved. That is the only concern I have with him at all. Move forward with this guy for another year.
Edit: On topic....Mike Wallace still can't catch.
And he got absolutely drilled less than a second after he let that ball go.
That's usually the type of pass that gets picked because it gets lofted up so high.
Nope, it hit Wallace right in the hands.
Im not really even worried about it. Im convinced Tannehill is our franchise Qb. Cant wait to look back on some of these posts a few years from now.
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It was 63 yards, not 68 yards. People are embellishing a little. And a 63 yard completion is extremely rare. Have seen very, very few of them. Can count them on one hand.
Really not sure which play you're talking about. Can you describe it any better?
Well..still. Like you said extremely rare. On the move..about to get crushed. God I wish someone would do a mashup of that throw...the two throws at the end of the Baltimore game...the throw at the end of the Buffalo game...
We have a rare physical athlete at Qb. Who has improved not regressed in year two. Yes..he has flaws. Yes..maybe he will always have some. They all do. But like Marino...learn to appreciate what we have. Tannehill is not a QB you can find on any given day. Appreciate..savor his development.
Also..nobody says alot about it...but look how hes becoming more and more of a team leader. Can you imagine a better face for our franchise?
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Are you trying to say that Ryan holds the ball too long? If that is the case, why is it that only Peyton Manning gets rid of the ball a higher percentage of the time in <2.5 seconds?
This is just more baseless criticism of Ryan.
Maybe you should bother to read what you wrote?
No mention of playaction, which was the reason wallace "jogged out", he had to look like he was setting up to block. On the first throw Ryan continued the action into a sprint out. Exactly how does he throw that ball at 1.5 to 2 seconds on a play action sprint out? That's silly.