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Your Ideal Backup QB for Tua?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Pennington's Limp Arm, Mar 13, 2021.

  1. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    Let’s Assume the Dolphins keep status quo and no big moves are made at the starting Quarterback position.

    Who do you want to bring in (or resign) as backup next year?

    Tua is still inexperienced and could probably use a vet in the QB room. Or do you risk it and back him up with a rookie draft pick ?

    Fitz returning would be perfect, they got along great and He is still plenty capable of performing on the field. But It appears he is looking for a better starting opportunity and even if he can’t find that, he will probably be too pricey for Miami.

    Free Agent Options;
    Ryan Fitzpatrick (38) MIA
    Jamies Winston (27) NO
    Alex Smith (36)WFT
    Andy Dalton (33) DAL
    Jacoby Brissett (28) IND
    Mitch Trubinsky (26) CHI
    Tyrod Taylor (31) LAC
    Joe Flacco (36) NYJ
    Mike Glennon (31) Jax
    Blaine Gabbaert(31) TB
    CJ Beathard (27) SF
    Bryan Hoyer (35) NE
    Blake Bortles (29) LAR
    Robert Griffin III (31) BAL
    Matt Barkley (30) BUF
    Colt McCoy (34) NYG
    AJ McCarron (30) HOU
    Geno Smith (30) SEA
    Brent Hundley (27) ARI

    Jake Rudock (28) is also still a DolphIn as an RFA option.

    Link with recent quotes from Flores on the topic:;
    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/dolphin...hing-for-in-a-backup-quarterback-in-2021/amp/
     
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  2. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    It should be a veteran but they have to move on from Fitzpatrick. The fan love and media love is just too much.

    Yes, he's a great backup quarterback. But, if Tua is going to be the guy then they don't need that distraction from the media if he has a bad game.

    I think a guy like Brian Hoyer makes sense. He's a veteran and has some connection to Flores and can maybe win a game off the bench if an injury were to occur.

    If Tua regresses and doesn't take the next step they will probably be looking at a quarterback in 2022 anyway.

    Fans need to put to bed the pipe dream that if Tua struggles then Fitzpatrick is going to take them on a playoff run.
     
  3. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    If healthy enough, Alex Smith. You had a good gunslinger mentor in Fitz, now have the game manager to bring Tua along the rest of the way.
     
  4. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    How about just draft another top QB and let them compete?

    They'd both be starting on a level playing field. Same teammates. Little experience. So it's a more even competition. And a franchise QB shouldn't be afraid of that.

    There's also a higher chance that the Dolphins land their QB of the future with two - which was a big part of this colossal rebuild.

    It will only cost one pick.

    If they're both good then one is easy to trade. If not, then that was the point, to gain at least one good QB.

    In terms of a veteran, they can grab a cheap emergency backup.

    This will keep the cap healthier for other pieces instead of an expensive QB.
     
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  5. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    In what range are you suggesting we pick them?

    The issue with a rookie is that you are likely to get worse performance over a small stretch, and you get no coaching/teaching from them the way you would an appropriate vet.

    Dudes who have spent their career mostly as backups holding clipboards next to the coach are de facto coordinators. I'd much rather have that, a guy who Tua can pick the brain of, than some mid round rookie going "I don't even know where that safety came from man."

    Its Tua's job. He's not losing it via practice. Let him play and see where we are.
     
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  6. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    #3.

    Take Lance, or Wilson or Trevor.
     
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  7. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Instead of using the #3 overall pick to draft Tua a premium player, or use that pick to accumulate more picks, you want to draft competition for him? lol
     
  8. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    It's not often you can draft 5 and then 3. It shouldn't be often you do a full rebuild. You need to get it right.

    Is there anyone who says the draft isn't a gamble?

    Is there ever a sure thing?

    No.

    The main priority is to get a franchise QB. Maybe that's Tua, maybe not. But two chances are better than one. If you don't land the right guy then no premium WR or RB or LT means anything.
     
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  9. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    You're totally lost.
     
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  10. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Good comeback.

    How about take five minutes to explain why I'm wrong?
     
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  11. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    We don't have enough cap space this year to afford an expensive backup qb. Imo, we need to wait out the expensive phase of free agency, pick through whos left afterwards, and sign them to a cheap one year deal.

    Then if things go well this year and Tua is still the clear starter in 2022, we look at a better, longer term option a year from now.
     
  12. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, I mean, Tua was not very good last season. Anyone who thinks he's gonna be great, is basing that, imo, purely on college scouting and write-ups.

    My position has not changed. I never thought that Tua was driving the offense at Alabama, I never found myself watching him, thinking "We gotta draft this kid!" Aaaannndddd nothing I saw last season changed my opinion.

    I think Tua will be good. I don't think he's going to be great. In that respect, I have zero issue using #3 on a QB, as I'm not convinced that Tua is the guy we were told he would be.

    Again, I'd LOVE to be wrong. I hope he takes a giant leap forward this season.
     
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  13. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    He can't.

    If this team is serious about making a run for a SB, they need to either trade for Watson or draft a QB at 3.
     
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  14. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I like Tyrod Taylor, Jacoby Brisett, and Andy Dalton from your free agent list. Great team guys with at least some moderate success playing in NFL games.
     
  15. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Obviously, if Fitzmagic is on the table, I would take him. I would say that his familiarity with the team, coaching staff, and dynamic with Tua are all added bonuses that no other vet has.

    My biggest fear is that we bring in "Old Established Vet" as our QB. You know the type - reliable, trustworthy, limited upside, definitely nobody's "answer." To me, having Tua as the unquestioned starter as a means of elevating his game seems foolish to me and at odds with reality.

    Let's just talk for a minute about the reality of who Tua is. First and foremost, the guy has dealt with injuries for his entire career. He missed games his rookie year due to injury. If you made me bet, I would guess that the guy does not play 16 games next year. So we need someone who can play.

    Secondly, and this is a hope and a prayer for me, but we need to run something closer to a college system next year. I think that will help Tua thrive. I think we need to do more with putting Tua in motion and letting him throw on the run. He did well with that last year. To me, all roads point toward drafting another rookie.

    Again, I am rooting myself in realism when I say, Tua regressed last year. It felt like he really came into his own in the KC game, but after that, it felt like he declined. There is a universe where at some point in the season, we look and say, "Tua is not the guy." If we are sitting with "Old Established Vet" as our backup, we are going to be in a far worse situation than the Tannehill years. The biggest problem with Tannehill was that he wasn't bad. The team was not built around him, and there were moments that we saw the guy in Tennessee in him. Even in his worse years, we were never picking in the top 7. It always felt like getting a replacement was just out of reach.

    So what do I propose for a backup? I say we target "Potential Guy." We are looking for a guy who could run a similar system, who has played against top college talent with success, and is a viable Plan B. Essentially, I am looking for the Kirk Cousins to our RGIII.

    Three names come to mind - Kellen Mond, Ian Book, and Sam Ehlinger. If the staff likes one of these guys in particular, why not take them a little higher than when they are expected to go? I think with proper draft management, we could assuredly get one of these guys. Tua would indeed have his status with the team, and the organization would not be completely exposed to a Tua bust scenario.
     
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  16. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    If Wilson is there at #3, without a great trade offer for our pick? You have to think about drafting him. Finding a franchise QB is the only thing that really matters.

    Imagine Watson or Mahomes on the Bears for the last several years. They built a pretty good team -except they whiffed on the QB. Everything Miami has done with this rebuild will be wasted if the QB does not pan out.

    If we need to find another QB in 2022? It will cost BIG TIME to move up and get a top prospect. So, spend multiple first rounders later, or ONE high pick this year?

    I really hope the Dolphins get a sweet trade deal, and that Tua turns into a quality starter. You at least have to think about a plan B though, not just 'Tua or bust'.
     
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  17. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    If I'm the GM, first thing I'm doing is re-signing Fitz.

    Second thing I'm doing is drafting another QB in this draft. Who and when will depend on how the draft plays out. But, I would not let having drafted Tua last year stop me from investing very high draft capital in another prospect. Case in point, if Zach Wilson falls to #3, I'd have a hard time letting him go. Similarly if Mac Jones is still OTB at #18, it would be hard to not take him. Mills and Ehlinger later both have value. Regardless of who and when, with all the picks we have, I'm getting one of them. Competition at every position, especially QB, is how you get better.

    Bottom line, you have to have a franchise QB. So, you gotta pull out all the stops until you get one.
     
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  18. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    How exactly does drafting a quarterback at #3 make them a Super Bowl contender? lol
     
  19. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Tua showed nothing of being a franchise quarterback in 9 games?

    Or do you just want to draft a quarterback in the first round every season until one throws 35 TD's in his rookie season?

    I get alot of you suffer from Herbertitis but you need to relax and see what he can do in a full season at 100% health.
     
  20. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    So
    You failed to address any of my points. Including the one where I said Tua might be the guy.

    Tua might be the right QB, and he might not. The Dolphins have an uncommonly good opportunity to come as close as possible to ensuring they land their QB of the future.

    What's to stop them from drafting two young QBs and have them compete?

    Do you have a guarantee Tua will be the guy?

    What if he isn't?

    Taking two young QBs in successive drafts might be unorthodox but it's cheap, it allows you to keep building, and it increases your odds of finding your franchise QB. It's not every year you're rebuilding and have a haul of picks.

    So again, why not?
     
  21. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I think you need to find out if Tua is the guy this season at 100% health, a full off-season, and with a better roster and using those draft picks to fill needs.

    Another young quarterback with a top 5 pick is not a need right now. Skill position players are an immediate need for this team. That was blatantly obvious during the season.

    If Tua isn't the guy and doesn't take that leap alot of people expect him to make, they are probably picking in the top 10 next April. Then you can draft another quarterback.
     
  22. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    Great post. I was actually thinking of mentioning the Cousins/Griffin III situation.

    I can’t get behind the idea of wasting #3 on another QB. We pay people
    Lots of money to scout/evaluate/coach talent for a reason. If these people still have faith In Tua... then you don’t overdraft the position! Especially when Generational talent at other positions will be available.

    But if our evaluators like a QB that is sitting there late 2nd or early third. I don’t mind having a prospect/upside backup.

    .... Just Not Ian Book ! I’ve seen enough of him to confidently say absolutely not !

    Guys like Hoyer, Flacco and McCoy as coach type backups doesn’t fly for me. Those guys specifically look absolutely cooked and wouldn’t help if they were called into primary action due to Injury.

    Alex Smith would be a great fit if affordable! Perfect vet and showed he is still a winner.

    I also really like Tyrod, Jacoby Brissett and Matt Barkley on merit and ability. Those guys would be respectable and certainly give us a chance IMO in event of injury. I know Brissett was heavily linked to us, so he is interesting.
    Maybe I’m suffering from recency bias on Barkley after he came in and torched us week 17?
     
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  23. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    The last thing going through anyone's mind in the Miami Dolphins building right now is drafting a quarterback at #3. It's completely silly.

    I do agree with the idea of them drafting a prospect in the middle rounds if they really like him.

    Ideally, whoever the backup quarterback to Tua is will be holding a clipboard for the entire season.
     
  24. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    They should be asking, "What's the plan if Tua fails to develop this year?" and then having a plan. Spending the #3 pick on another QB is drastic, but it might be the right move. Tua develops and you trade Zach Wilson for a first rounder in 2022. Tua falters, and you let them compete to start in 2022 and trade the loser away in 2023.

    It will cost Miami much more (granted without a great offer for the #3 pick this year) more in draft capital to try and find another QB in 2022. Flores won five games with an expansion roster in 2019, the Dolphins will be winning at least 6-8 games every season he is coaching. That means giving up multiple first rounders plus other picks to move up to get a top prospect.

    Also, are not most of the same people who traded a second rounder for Josh Rosen (AFTER a year of NFL tape on him) doing the evaluation of our QB options? I don't trust them to know what they are doing, until they prove they can find a good QB. Did they pick the THIRD best QB in the 2020 draft? The next couple years will tell us for sure.
     
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  25. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Fitzmagic. We need a closer if Tua continues to struggle.
     
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  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Tua did nothing to convince me that he's the guy. Given how he finished the season, I'm actually far more down on him than I was when we drafted him. I was actually really excited when he started playing.

    My opinion is, with the resources we have again this draft, and the QB talent available, compared to 2022, we've got to take a shot. If Tua doesn't have a massive jump this season, we are screwed. Basically, if we don't take a QB high this draft, then we're putting all our eggs in the Tua basket, and that makes me incredibly nervous, because nothing I've ever seen from Tua tells me that he's a superstar.
     
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  27. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    While I feel the same way that you do about Tua, the only QB in this class that I like a lot is Lawrence. And while I would advocate doing nearly anything to trade up and draft him, or to trade for Watson, I am firmly opposed to drafting another QB this year.
     
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  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah Lawrence or Watson. Of course, getting Watson means getting rid of Tua, I imagine. Not sure Jones is any better than Tua. Lol
     
  29. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    That escalated quickly into another ‘Tua debate/draft debate’. Was just looking to shoot the **** about some backups.

    Even prefaced it by saying ‘assuming Dolphins keep status quo at starting QB and no major moves”.

    You dont draft a backup 3rd overall. that is a MAJOR move and immediate competition for starter spot.
     
  30. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    That's the thing. I don't think they are picking that high. Plus, who knows if the QB class will be as good. There's certainly no guarantee of either.

    In terms of a backup QB another rookie and then a low end third stringer would be better than spending on a decent veteran.
     
  31. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I think Alex Smith gets a pretty penny. I think he could wind up doing a deal where he could competes to start, or he goes to a team with a rookie QB and starts for the first X amount of games. I think he gets around $10 mil per year. With the cap going down, I think that we try to roll backup QB on the cheap which again points to rookie.
     
  32. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    The lol is the most intelligent part of that post. How does drafting a QB anywhere make them a SB contender? By drafting the right one.
     
  33. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Rookie quarterbacks lead teams to Super Bowls all the time. You're right.
     
  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I mean, you raised the question of drafting a rookie QB in the initial post, so not sure why you are surprised at people talking about potential rookie QBs.
     
  35. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    With the new league year about to start, I would say that there are potentially as many as nine teams, and probably at least four or five at a minimum, where a QB like Alex Smith or Ryan Fitzpatrick, or someone like that, could be a short term starter in 2021. Some teams will be starting over with rookie QBs and would have a situation similar to our own this past season. Others will be left out and not have much of anyone. If the Dolphins aren't able to trade for Watson, then its probably in their best interest that as many teams with known quanities at QB hang onto them as possible, to create as few holes around the league. Fewer clear options means fewer veteran QBs sign quickly in free agency, leaving more of them on the outside looking for any job they can find, and then we can pounce.
     
  36. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    I did. Meant more 3rd round.
    Assumed people knew #3 would be considered a ‘major move’ and not ‘status quo’.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2021
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  37. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    They're all rookies the first year, you just have to be sure they're the right rookie. You can't actually be trying to argue, in this day and age, that having a superstar QB isn't key to getting to the SB, can you?
     
  38. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Guy, your original post made it seem like the Dolphins are Super Bowl contenders THIS SEASON with Watson or a drafted quarterback at #3.

    And, you can't say that Tua won't be a star in this league based on 9 games unless you suffer from Herbertitis.
     
  39. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    it might be unrealistic but I really would like Kellen Mond as a backup...yeah he is a rookie and I have no idea where he gets drafted on PFN Mock Draft you can always get him around pick 100-115, don´t know how accurate this is but that would be my dream scenario.
     
  40. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    No, it didn't, and if you had any interest in being honest, you'd admit that it didn't. What it says is that if the Dolphins want to be a SB contender, they need to bring in a top-tier QB. Period. Full stop. No, "this season!", no "Tua sucks and will never be any good!" or any of the other bullcrap you're trying to put onto my keyboard. Tua will be a good QB in the league most likely. What he won't be is a top-tier QB. You can say I'm wrong, but I'm saying I'm right. Which means we can spend all our draft capital on building up a team around him and wind up JUST missing his whole career, stuck fighting for that wildcard spot because we can't beat Josh Allen, or we can spend what it takes to bring in a superstar, top-tier QB and start making a run at being a perennial SB contender and the beasts of the AFC East.
     
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