Your Religion or Spirituality

I think the main reason it still "works" after all this time is the hope people see in it. I wouldnt try to use basic psychology to characterize an entire belief system, but its pretty simple when looked at in a few basic terms.

Those terms being that it softens the fear of death in the human mind. Death is the main fear all species have. Survival at all cost is the main primal instinct encoded into our DNA. Not love, compassion, empathy. Survival.

The idea of religion in our minds is an easy one to accept because people become less afraid of death. Furthermore, it is nearly impossible for human beings to fathom what it would be like to have no concious thoughts or inner monologue.

Thus the theory of a 'soul' or never ending life force was created. I wrote a paper on a similar subject in my college psychology class that you might find interesting. Im not badmouthing the idea of religion. I just personally believe its an easy answer to a much more complex set of questions regarding the universe and our species' place in it...

 

Oh pleeze, if survival was such a basal instinct, then why were Samurai stabbing themselves in the gut or jihadists blowing themselves up?

And "religion" is a slippery term, what do you define it as?

 

My bad then bro...I thought you were defending.

And of course it works. Organized religion has been a crutch for people to lean on for as long as anyone can remember. Think about it, where do you find most converts? Jail and rehab.

Gee, I wonder why? Possibly because they've hit rock bottom and there's nothing else for them to turn to so they're easy pickins?

As for it still being popular. At one time the Knack was the biggest band in the world, people actually root for the Jets, and Jimmy Carter was actually elected president.

I rest my case.

 

not sure if i should thank you or "respond".....

 

A buddy of mine explained to me his *sshole theory, that everyone, has a real *sshole inside them, some people can ignore the urge, others just let'r rip with the *ssholery, there is no escaping from it, it's a part of human nature.

 

HEY NOW! "Good Girls Don't" has some social relavence.

 

Well first of all, Those samurai you speak of weren't actually samurai at all. In Sun Tsuh's 'The Art of War' it tells of the General forcing those sentenced to death to take an honorable way out by killing themselves in front of his enemies for a psychological advantage.

Secondly, those Jihadists are a perfect example of what I was speaking about. Obviously they have lost their 'fear of death' because of the religion they worship. 72 virgins for the cause blah, blah, blah.

I dont think one can 'define' religion. Characterize it? Yes, possibly. But this can also be done in many ways. Im not dodging the question, but I could give you a thousand reasons why people choose to believe in a deity or afterlife.

 

one thing i have learned is that life is what and who we make of it. the events of my life, once they have passed are just the last to the next part of my life. i try to have as many people around as i can stand, and it takes a lot for me to not like some one. it's the experience of life that makes it worth while.

 

*ssholery?

Where I come from we call it douchebaggery. Nice to hear the different variations used across the country!

 

Either way, the survival instinct does not seem to be the pillar that your OP made it out to be.

But but..you said that basic human instinct was to survive...a catch-22, if they die, then they go to paradise, if they live, then they have all the more reason to rely on animal instinct to keep themselves alive..which is it? Fear of Death or Hope of Life?

Exactly, one has a hard time defining the word, because it means different things to different people.

 

Or *ssholia, but that is more a Govt function..."Fill out these thirty forms so I can reject them because form #12 is not filled in with your first middle and last name.."

 

By the way bro...not to change subject and completely go off topic, just want to tell ya real quick.

Got my tix for Maiden at Madison Square Garden June 15th, and Judas Priest, Heaven & Hell, Motorhead and Testament at Jones Beach Theater on August 10th.

 

Nice...

Is Halford with JP again? i've lost track to be honest about it.

 

lucky bastard!

i've seen Maiden twice, Judas Priest twice(last tour with Halford and the reunion a couple of yeas ago) Motorhead at least 3 times, and Testament once. would love to see H&H.

 

correct me if i'm wrong but i think they getting ready to release a new album.

 

I believe they are about to release one.

Hmm.. I'll have to put this thread back on some sort of track...

 

Well, yeah, but this goes back a bit longer than the Knack or even Namath. I gotta think there's a psychological need for it and just because you dislike most organized religion doesn't mean it's going to go away, or that it's necessarily a bad thing. Cultures need their myths.

 

i don't believe that religion in it's self is a bad thing. it's what some people do with it.

 

weeellll, things were getting a little...elevated. so, a little relief is ok.

 

Vanity DOLPHAN 1, vanity, these groups will fade from memory, like good Mississippi Delta Blues, sooner or later it is "who...?"

 

You misunderstand me, I don't dislike religion...it's the followers of the religions that are the problem.

Yea...what he said.

Before you do...it's called Nostradamus. Two disc concept album. Listen to the pre-released title track here.

 

Why Pagan, are you proselytizing for Judas Priest...?

I actually do have problems with the concept of religion, especially when it reduces Christ to mere forms of worship that are not really spoken of in the Bible, Christianity at it's core aims for the heart, not for the wafer and grape juice.

There is nothing wrong with the wafer and grape juice as long as one also tries to do the Will of God, things like love for people, industriousness, charity..

 

Damn skippy.

 

People can do bad stuff with almost everything...religion, philosophy, political beliefs, sex, literature...we have an almost infinite capacity for it.

 

i agree. it just so happens that we are discussing religion in the religion forum, though.

 

Yeah, we've got Pagan the Bassist leading the way to Judas Priest...

 

"Metal is my shepherd, I shall not want; It makes me lie down in soft beds with nubile groupies. It leads me away from still mosh pits; It rattles my soul. It leads me in paths of headbanging for Iron Maiden's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil; for Metal art with me; Thy Marshall and Thy Strat, they comfort me. Thou preparest a setlist before me in the presence of posers; Thou anointest my head with Jagermeister, my cup overflows. Surely volume and intensity shall follow me all the days of my life; and I shall dwell in the house of Halford for ever."

 

so. you like...a lyricist...or somthin'....

 

Do you think that it is just as possible, that people have a psychological need for finding "answers". Regardless of what you think of Christianity or other modern religions, the old religions were very much about explaining things they could not explain. Its no surprise that has science began to explain things in our natural world, religions began to change from a god for the sun and a god for the moon, to a single god that was more interested in the dynamics of intra-human interaction. Things, which, science is still trying to explain (the complexities of the mind, emotions, etc.)

Longer than there has been religion, people, have sought explanations.

 

Well, "maybe" even in Psalms it says "The fool says in their heart there is no God"

Written at least in 350 BC, the idea is nothing new.

Now even more interesting (to me) is Abraham was a Idol maker before he left it all behind so to speak, sometime when he was chipping away at a block of wood, somethign must have dawned on him about the Nature of the Divine...

 

I think, in a discussion about the nature of man, as it pertains to his need to believe or find answers, that using a book such as the Bible, is counterproductive to that discussion. We could also use the Book of the Dead and cave paintings, and in many ways, it helps my side of the discussion.

 

In my spare time.

 

I disagree, there is nothing new under the sun, the Bible merely details things, it is a mirror of for mankind to gaze into as it's all been done before..

 

We don't really know if Abraham ever gave up the idols. After all, the anti-graven image thing didn't come about till Moses brought the laws down from the mountain. Sarah even stole the household idols from her father when she and Abraham headed out together.

 

But there are a lot of old things we don't know yet.

 

Hmm.. as I recall, Abram stopped making idols, and it wasn't Sarai, it was Rachel that stole the idols made of gold when they left the comfort of Laban's employ...

Now Laban was a "bad" employer..

 

I'm honestly not trying to be disrespectful, but that sounds good when you say it fast. It doesn't really hold up much when you start to think about it. The first thing I can think of is the differences between the modern & ancient occidental religions and the modern & ancient oriental religions and even the ancient religions of the Americas. They are all very different from one another.

Now if you're saying, that they are all just tweaked forms of one another, then why are you so sure Christianity is the correct version?

 

Logos is Logos Finascious.

Nope, that is not what I'm saying at all.

 

i think the only commonality that you could apply is the desire to get closer to the source. how ever described. beyond that...?

 

Sorry, you're right...it was Rachel.