Your Religion or Spirituality

John 10:25-27 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

"BB Ocho wrote:

John 10:25-27 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Reading three lines out of a chapter it seems like it is obvious what he is saying. Reading the entire chapter is far less obvious

"BB Ocho wrote:

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

This is one of my main beefs with your religion.

My step-father is a jehovahs witness. I have known this man as my step father for 30 of my 41 years. He is devout in his beliefs. He is heavily involved with his church....and i say this with a clear mind that my opinion is unbiased by our relationship but, he is also the nicest, kindest, most giving, turn-the-other-cheek man that I have ever EVER had the pleasure to know. He is the embodiment of all that is good.

If your religion is the truth, and would deny a soul like my stepfather entry into heaven because he didn't follow the same path as everyone else, it would be an exclusionary religion that I would want to be a part of anyway.

Truth is rather exclusive.

The Bible is clear in it's teaching that all men are sinners, and our justification before God isn't on the basis of our own righteous deeds. We are created in the image of God and that image is broken and our relationship to God is severed by our sin. God sent his Son to be broken for us, and by that sacrifice we are reconciled to God. Our broken visage of the Glory of God is redeemed by the blood of Christ.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Reading three lines out of a chapter it seems like it is obvious what he is saying. Reading the entire chapter is far less obvious

I don't think the problem is whether Jesus is being clear in what he is saying, rather in our desire to submit ourselves to his words.

"BB Ocho wrote:

Truth is rather exclusive.

The Bible is clear in it's teaching that all men are sinners, and our justification before God isn't on the basis of our own righteous deeds. We are created in the image of God and that image is broken and our relationship to God is severed by our sin. God sent his Son to be broken for us, and by that sacrifice we are reconciled to God. Our broken visage of the Glory of God is redeemed by the blood of Christ.

Quoting the questionable document to support your argument is akin to saying " It's true because I say it's true." and I'm sorry but, that didn't fly when i was 7, and it hasn't grown wings since.

"BB Ocho wrote:

I don't think the problem is whether Jesus is being clear in what he is saying, rather in our desire to submit ourselves to his words.

There isn't a problem. Reading his words is like reading words of someone trying to explain red to someone who is blind.

John 9:35-41 Jesus heard that they had cast him out , and having found him he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" He answered, "And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?" Jesus said to him, "You have seen him, and it is he who is speaking to you." He said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.
Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind." Some of the Pharisees near him heard these things, and said to him, "Are we also blind?" Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, 'We see,' your guilt remains.

You are judging by a standard that you cannot justify. The structure that you have built is on the shifting sands of your subjective opinions.

"BB Ocho wrote:

John 9:35-41 Jesus heard that they had cast him out , and having found him he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" He answered, "And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?" Jesus said to him, "You have seen him, and it is he who is speaking to you." He said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.
Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind." Some of the Pharisees near him heard these things, and said to him, "Are we also blind?" Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, 'We see,' your guilt remains.

You are judging by a standard that you cannot justify. The structure that you have built is on the shifting sands of your subjective opinions.

why that is harsh... I can justify it though. You are quoting John, John was written 100 years after the fact. And I can tell you, in this era of 24 hours news it is pretty obvious that we can't get things that happened 24 hours ago right, most people seem to be quite able to get those things really wrong. So you expect me to believe that a man is going to get jesus' life and sayings down pat 100 years after Jesus' time? You expect me to believe that the word of mouth that was what reached him had not disturbed the text itself?

In other words you are justifiying it through personal belief... period. Subjective personal belief adscribed to a ancient book that was written a century after the facts it depicts, take into mind also that even if you where to tell me that thiese men that wrote it 100 years later where inspired by god, you have no proof for that except subjective proof. And you yourself seem to be willing to disprove that.

In other words, live and let live.

Strap in kids....here we go again! :lol:

"Sethdaddy8 wrote:

I was born and raised Roman Catholic. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't an agnostic theist in my heart. Faith is all important in religion, but I can't deny the cold feeling of the unknown. Something I've been kind of struggling with the past few years. I embrace Catholicism still, after-all its something that is deep rooted throughout mine and my wife's family history. We both embrace our families and traditions. I certainly don't agree with all of it though.
I try to be a good person, do right by others, be generous where I can. If I ever am judged, that will have to do I suppose. And I like the comparisons of Santa Claus to God, and their common lack of existence. Its funny though, Santa Claus is based on truth and a being who did exist. He's evolved into a form where simple children can understand. Kinda like the big scary guy with the gray beard who sits on his throne in the sky. People tend to like having the picture painted for them, not unlike children. If there is a God, and I do believe there is, it is certainly beyond any cynical notion I could conjure up.

OLPH????

And then there is this: The Bible is America’s Favorite Book Followed by Gone with the Wind

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/

"quelonio wrote:

why that is harsh... I can justify it though. You are quoting John, John was written 100 years after the fact. And I can tell you, in this era of 24 hours news it is pretty obvious that we can't get things that happened 24 hours ago right, most people seem to be quite able to get those things really wrong. So you expect me to believe that a man is going to get jesus' life and sayings down pat 100 years after Jesus' time? You expect me to believe that the word of mouth that was what reached him had not disturbed the text itself?

In other words you are justifiying it through personal belief... period. Subjective personal belief adscribed to a ancient book that was written a century after the facts it depicts, take into mind also that even if you where to tell me that thiese men that wrote it 100 years later where inspired by god, you have no proof for that except subjective proof. And you yourself seem to be willing to disprove that.

In other words, live and let live.

:sidelol:

I am sorry but I just thought it funny that you question the time the Book of John was written, and it's authority - by saying that too much time has elapsed to get it right....

yet.....and here is the funy part.......you claim, 2000 years later, that you have it right!

Oh the irony!

"Dolphan7 wrote:

:sidelol:

I am sorry but I just thought it funny that you question the time the Book of John was written, and it's authority - by saying that too much time has elapsed to get it right....

yet.....and here is the funy part.......you claim, 2000 years later, that you have it right!

Oh the irony!

I do not think you understand irony

I am a Christian. I know that Jesus is my saviour and that God is His father.
I don't argue religion or Christianity with any one, nor try to push my beliefs on them.
The church I attend is full of all kinds of people, some good, some not so good. But, we're all sinners and to me church is where we need to be to learn.
I'm fortunate to have a good Bible teaching Pastor.
I do believe the Bible is the Word of God, written through His chosen ones, to teach us.
I've always said that I'd rather live my life worshiping the Lord and taking to heart His word, than taking a chance on the alternative.
He gave all of us "free will" to do as we choose, I choose to follow Him and be the best that I can be.
I sin and fall short daily, but I rest in the assurance that He will love me unconditionally.
Thanks guys, I love the opportunity to express my beliefs.

"inFINSible wrote:

This is one of my main beefs with your religion.

My step-father is a jehovahs witness. I have known this man as my step father for 30 of my 41 years. He is devout in his beliefs. He is heavily involved with his church....and i say this with a clear mind that my opinion is unbiased by our relationship but, he is also the nicest, kindest, most giving, turn-the-other-cheek man that I have ever EVER had the pleasure to know. He is the embodiment of all that is good.

If your religion is the truth, and would deny a soul like my stepfather entry into heaven because he didn't follow the same path as everyone else, it would be an exclusionary religion that I would want to be a part of anyway.

Christianity is exclusionary, there is no question about that. God rejects those who reject Him. Plain and simple.

But.....

Before putting the final nail in the coffin of Christianity, one should first examine the question of "Is there an absolute moral authority?" Because if there is, then it really does not matter what anyone of us thinks is true, just and moral. What matters is that God alone has the authority to set the rules, and we either accept that or reject that.

Now if one concludes that there is no absolute moral authority, then the obvious result of that is individual morality, or what is known as relative morality. Then each one of us can determine what ever type of morality we feel comfortable with, without any foundation other than what we think in our own mind, what feels good, what seems right etc....The problem with that is without an absolute moral authority, we have no basis to declare that our morality is more right than any other, or less wrong.

I believe in an absolute moral authority. Am I wrong?

"Dolphan7 wrote:

Christianity is exclusionary, there is no question about that. God rejects those who reject Him. Plain and simple.

But.....

Before putting the final nail in the coffin of Christianity, one should first examine the question of "Is there an absolute moral authority?" Because if there is, then it really does not matter what anyone of us thinks is true, just and moral. What matters is that God alone has the authority to set the rules, and we either accept that or reject that.

Now if one concludes that there is no absolute moral authority, then the obvious result of that is individual morality, or what is known as relative morality. Then each one of us can determine what ever type of morality we feel comfortable with, without any foundation other than what we think in our own mind, what feels good, what seems right etc....The problem with that is without an absolute moral authority, we have no basis to declare that our morality is more right than any other, or less wrong.
I believe in an absolute moral authority. Am I wrong?

So the problem is that without absolute moral authority, people cannot be judgemental?

"Dolphan7 wrote:

Christianity is exclusionary, there is no question about that. God rejects those who reject Him. Plain and simple.

But.....

Before putting the final nail in the coffin of Christianity, one should first examine the question of "Is there an absolute moral authority?" Because if there is, then it really does not matter what anyone of us thinks is true, just and moral. What matters is that God alone has the authority to set the rules, and we either accept that or reject that.

Now if one concludes that there is no absolute moral authority, then the obvious result of that is individual morality, or what is known as relative morality. Then each one of us can determine what ever type of morality we feel comfortable with, without any foundation other than what we think in our own mind, what feels good, what seems right etc....The problem with that is without an absolute moral authority, we have no basis to declare that our morality is more right than any other, or less wrong.

I believe in an absolute moral authority. Am I wrong?

I think you're asking the wrong question. The question is not, "Is there an absolute moral authority?" it's "Does any mortal man know for sure WHICH claimant to the absolute moral authority is correct, if any?"

Also shouldn't a lot of this discussion be in a different thread since this one is just about what an indivisual person's beliefs are?

"Rick 1966 wrote:

I think you're asking the wrong question. The question is not, "Is there an absolute moral authority?" it's "Does any mortal man know for sure WHICH claimant to the absolute moral authority is correct, if any?"

Can't argue with that, its up to each person to figure that out for themselves.

"Finascious D wrote:

I'm a stone cold Atheist.

I don't believe in God. Or the devil, or angels, spirits, souls, afterlife, numerology, astrology, the healing power of crystals, fate, destiny, faith, or anything considered spiritual.

I'm not an Atheist, because I hate religion or religious people. I don't. The woman I'm marrying this Saturday is a non-denominational Christian. I am an Atheist, because it makes as much sense to me as whatever religion makes sense to believers.

Congrats on getting married! I hope for a lifetime of happiness for you two :up:

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Also shouldn't a lot of this discussion be in a different thread since this one is just about what an indivisual person's beliefs are?

No bro...haven't you figured it out by now?

I am conflicted on my beliefs when it comes to this topic.

For example: i cannot stand religion yet i have come to love God regardless of what form you accept him in.

I believe all religions are inherently good in their intentions yet they cause too much strife over too many stupid subtle differences for me to ever support one.

I was born and raised Jewish yet I have not set foot inside a temple (or any other religiuous home) since I was 13 other then for cermonial events (weddings, funerals etc) and the only reason I went for that long was because it was forced on me by my parents understandably so when you read on....

My Grandfather on my mothers side was a Holocaust survivor so at an early age I learned to dislike religion for the predicament it had landed him in (a wheelchair at a young age). I learned to dislike it for the stupidity it brings out in some people, for the conflict it causes, for the hate/intolerance people have for others. Granted its only a moderate percentage of people in this country who feel this way but in other countries its more prevalent.

My experiences in holy places has not been pleasant.

I went through a stage of atheism I guess as a form of rebellion to the above statement. Later, I realized my mistake (at least imo it was a mistake) and came to realize I could accept that there is a God without actually liking any of the religions I have come across.

I think it comes down to this for me.

I think its up to each individual to believe what they want about religion. I may have questions of that believe, but who am I to say they are wrong?

I do think that if there is a god, he is spinning in his grave (Pardon the pun) with the way the world is. I don't think he wanted his name being used to be a tool in killings like it has been for centuries, whether it be in the name of God or Allah or whomever ones believe in.

I can't fault people that don't believe either, with what is going on around the world makes it hard to believe there is a mighty being looking over us.

Like I said earlier, I believe in God, I'm don't believe everything in the bible. I also don't believe you have to go to church each week to be a good Catholic. But that's what's good for me. But I won't tell anyone else they have to believe like I do or the wrath of God will destroy them.

I also hate when people of faith try and tell you what you should believe, its up to each individual to find whats good for them.

"NJFINSFAN1 wrote:

But I won't tell anyone else they have to believe like I do or the wrath of God will destroy them.

I also hate when people of faith try and tell you what you should believe, its up to each individual to find whats good for them.

Bravo. :clap: