Your weekly update on referendum..all new numbers.
40 replies
djphinfansubscriberOP" During meetings last week with NFL owners in Phoenix, the Dolphins shared a confidential report on their ongoing negotiations with Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Gimenez to bring the issue to a countywide vote, according to an NFL source. The source said the Dolphins revealed they have offered to use private dollars to fund $225 million in construction costs for a renovation now estimated at $389 million, less than the $400 million figure that was the most commonly used estimate for the deal.
That amounts to the Dolphins asking for public money to fund about 43 percent of the construction costs, less than the 49 percent that was initially floated as a starting point by the team. And the Dolphins have offered to go one step further and repay Miami-Dade for the $120 million the county would be expected to put into the renovation, the NFL source said. The remaining $44 million would come from a state sales-tax subsidy."
Ross puts in writing funds will be paid back to the county over the course of the lease..
Also guarantees if we don't get Super Bowl 50 or 51, he will not accept public funds.
Stringer BellsubscriberSeems like a no brainer.
“Come on, shake your body baby, do that conga!”
shula_guyNew MemberThis is a terrific opprotunity for out of state fans to show the nation what great fans they are by sending in private donations to pay for these renovations. Ross will be the envy of the owners association for having the greatest fan base supporting him.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."
Frederic Bastiat
UCF FINaticNew MemberLoving this! The stadium needs to be a lot closer to the action. You can have front row tickets and feel like you have nose-bleed tickets currently.
Thank you giovafin for this awesome Sig!
schmoliootsubscriberIf Ross is paying back the money, why bother with this at all?
Just do the renovations.
Certainly these new proposals make the deal more palatable but the devil is in the details.
Ozzyluxury_box"schmolioot wrote:
If Ross is paying back the money, why bother with this at all?
Just do the renovations.
Certainly these new proposals make the deal more palatable but the devil is in the details.
His money is tied up. He wants an interest free loan maybe>
http://images.thephins.com/signaturepics/sigpic83_3.gif
schmoliootsubscriberWell the article says that the Fins pay back the money in 30 years, with no adjustments for inflation and without paying the county's interest and other debt service on the bonds.
It's not a great deal but better than it was previously
Stringer Bellsubscriber"schmolioot wrote:
If Ross is paying back the money, why bother with this at all?
Just do the renovations.
Certainly these new proposals make the deal more palatable but the devil is in the details.
Steve Ross' cost of capital is much higher than the county's.
“Come on, shake your body baby, do that conga!”
djphinfansubscriber"UCF FINatic wrote:
Loving this! The stadium needs to be a lot closer to the action. You can have front row tickets and feel like you have nose-bleed tickets currently.
Honestly, I don't think it's possible at 389 mill, I know they want to close the corners of the endzone by adding a bit of structure, and add a few rows to the sidelines, but these upgrades won't have anything to do with moving the stands or decks closer,it's just taking out some real estate from the uppers for the megatons, and adding down low, the integrity of the structure will be the same...
It sucks but, ill take anything at this point.
"schmolioot wrote:
If Ross is paying back the money, why bother with this at all?
Just do the renovations.
Certainly these new proposals make the deal more palatable but the devil is in the details.
I imagine that regardless of how rich he is, it is very hard to write a check for $389 million.
Ohio Fanaticsubscriber"shula_guy wrote:
This is a terrific opprotunity for out of state fans to show the nation what great fans they are by sending in private donations to pay for these renovations. Ross will be the envy of the owners association for having the greatest fan base supporting him.
was this sarcasm? any amount that out-of-state fans would send in would be a drop in the bucket and nothing more than symbolic.
plus it would make zero sense. stadiums benefit the local economy. If out-of-state fans want to show their support, they can do it by driving down to Miami, attending a game and spending money in the area.
testing
MikeHonchosubscriberState sales tax subsidy? Kinda oxymoronic.
Headcoach material wouldn’t want to work somewhere they’re not trusted with actual football decisions.
Stringer Bellsubscriber"shula_guy wrote:
This is a terrific opprotunity for out of state fans to show the nation what great fans they are by sending in private donations to pay for these renovations. Ross will be the envy of the owners association for having the greatest fan base supporting him.
Why would out of state fans care if the team plays in Miami or Alaska???
“Come on, shake your body baby, do that conga!”
shula_guyNew Member"Stringer Bell wrote:
Why would out of state fans care if the team plays in Miami or Alaska???
I cant tell you why but some of them care about seeing a full stadium on their TVs at home. They tell local fans they are not good fans if they dont go to the games and then proclaim how they definitely would if only they lived closer. This is a great opprotunity for them to put up or shut up. If each of them would pony up what the average local fan spends in a single season on going to the games then Ross could get his new stadium, and the out of town fan can proudly know they are doing their part to support thier team by doing what they can to fill up the stadium. If each of our out of town super fans would send Ross a $5K check it would only require 35K fans to participate.
Come on guys, get err done. Make the team feel your love.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."
Frederic Bastiat
shula_guyNew Member"Ohio Fanatic wrote:
was this sarcasm? any amount that out-of-state fans would send in would be a drop in the bucket and nothing more than symbolic.
plus it would make zero sense. stadiums benefit the local economy. If out-of-state fans want to show their support, they can do it by driving down to Miami, attending a game and spending money in the area.
Their wives wont let them and the travel expenses are too much for them or they would.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."
Frederic Bastiat
PhinishLinesubscriber"shula_guy wrote:
Their wives wont let them and the travel expenses are too much for them or they would.
I feel like this was directed my way. My comment was specific to "every weekend". All of my family is from Florida, I went to school in Florida, and my pops is from Miami. I can get by with 1 or 2 trips to Miami to see a game a year. But NO wife is going to let their husband shoot down to South Beach every weekend. Not going to happen. It just doesn't make any sense to do so. That would rougly cost about 5000-7000 dollars a season, way more than what the typical local fan would pay. The logistics of an out of town fan coming to a game is way different than a local fan. Apples and Oranges.
Dolphins Football. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
Stringer Bellsubscriber"shula_guy wrote:
I cant tell you why but some of them care about seeing a full stadium on their TVs at home. They tell local fans they are not good fans if they dont go to the games and then proclaim how they definitely would if only they lived closer. This is a great opprotunity for them to put up or shut up. If each of them would pony up what the average local fan spends in a single season on going to the games then Ross could get his new stadium, and the out of town fan can proudly know they are doing their part to support thier team by doing what they can to fill up the stadium. If each of our out of town super fans would send Ross a $5K check it would only require 35K fans to participate.
Come on guys, get err done. Make the team feel your love.
My point is that the out of town fans would be better off paying money to have the team play home games in their city, not another.
“Come on, shake your body baby, do that conga!”
shula_guyNew Member"PhinishLine wrote:
I feel like this was directed my way. My comment was specific to "every weekend". All of my family is from Florida, I went to school in Florida, and my pops is from Miami. I can get by with 1 or 2 trips to Miami to see a game a year. But NO wife is going to let their husband shoot down to South Beach every weekend. Not going to happen. It just doesn't make any sense to do so. That would rougly cost about 5000-7000 dollars a season, way more than what the typical local fan would pay. The logistics of an out of town fan coming to a game is way different than a local fan. Apples and Oranges.
It was directed at the people calling local fans bad fans for not going to the games then making excuses why they could not go when they were asked why they dont attend games. Then we also have out of state fans telling Florida residents that they should gladly want to loan Ross the money to renovate.
Assume for a moment that a new stadium will boost the local economy around the stadium, how does that benefit the rest of the state. That added tax will discourage tourism and negativily impact the local economies.
I appologize for coming off like such a Dick in this thread and I have no ill will toward any of you, I am just trying to drive my point home. It is a significant commitment of time and money to be a season ticket holder. I have tons of respect for those that do it but I would never criticize somebody who chooses not to do it. I'm doing it sarcastically right now only to show some people how unreasonable they are being about stadium attendence and where the money should come from foe the renovation.
FTR: I do not live in the Miami market so my numbers may be off here but think about this for a moment.
Average fan season ticket holder:
1. At least two seats, nobody buys just 1 $50 each? 10 games? $1000 on tickets
2. $40 to park
3. Food/Beer/Program
Its not cheap to go to a game and from what I hear getting in and out of the stadium is a slow process so it costs lots of time too. Forget the 4 O'Clock game, you aint gonna see it. Add to that the dejected feeling you have because your team loses its home games. Just because people are getting tired of that does not make them fair weather fans.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."
Frederic Bastiat
shula_guyNew Member"Stringer Bell wrote:
My point is that the out of town fans would be better off paying money to have the team play home games in their city, not another.
My point is that the team would benefit if they sent them money
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."
Frederic Bastiat
FinNastymoderator"schmolioot wrote:
Well the article says that the Fins pay back the money in 30 years, with no adjustments for inflation and without paying the county's interest and other debt service on the bonds.
It's not a great deal but better than it was previously
Unless he's paying for it 100%... you aren't going to think its a great deal...
Stringer Bellsubscriber"shula_guy wrote:
My point is that the team would benefit if they sent them money
You're missing the point. Out of towners have no inherent reason to see the organization benefit in that market. The Dolphins could pack up and leave Miami, and it would make 0 difference to out of towners.
This shouldn't be a difficult issue. Do you believe the Dolphins should stay in Miami? Do you even care?
“Come on, shake your body baby, do that conga!”
Joe RobbieNew Member"shula_guy wrote:
It was directed at the people calling local fans bad fans for not going to the games then making excuses why they could not go when they were asked why they dont attend games. Then we also have out of state fans telling Florida residents that they should gladly want to loan Ross the money to renovate.
Assume for a moment that a new stadium will boost the local economy around the stadium, how does that benefit the rest of the state. That added tax will discourage tourism and negativily impact the local economies.
I appologize for coming off like such a Dick in this thread and I have no ill will toward any of you, I am just trying to drive my point home. It is a significant commitment of time and money to be a season ticket holder. I have tons of respect for those that do it but I would never criticize somebody who chooses not to do it. I'm doing it sarcastically right now only to show some people how unreasonable they are being about stadium attendence and where the money should come from foe the renovation.
FTR: I do not live in the Miami market so my numbers may be off here but think about this for a moment.
Average fan season ticket holder:
1. At least two seats, nobody buys just 1 $50 each? 10 games? $1000 on tickets
2. $40 to park
3. Food/Beer/ProgramIts not cheap to go to a game and from what I hear getting in and out of the stadium is a slow process so it costs lots of time too. Forget the 4 O'Clock game, you aint gonna see it. Add to that the dejected feeling you have because your team loses its home games. Just because people are getting tired of that does not make them fair weather fans.
My favorite ones are the hypocrites that have their own local team they're not supporting.
Ohio Fanaticsubscriber"shula_guy wrote:
I cant tell you why but some of them care about seeing a full stadium on their TVs at home. They tell local fans they are not good fans if they dont go to the games and then proclaim how they definitely would if only they lived closer. This is a great opprotunity for them to put up or shut up. If each of them would pony up what the average local fan spends in a single season on going to the games then Ross could get his new stadium, and the out of town fan can proudly know they are doing their part to support thier team by doing what they can to fill up the stadium. If each of our out of town super fans would send Ross a $5K check it would only require 35K fans to participate.
Come on guys, get err done. Make the team feel your love.
This is literally one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this site. I can't imagine you're actually serious about this idea.
testing
PhinishLinesubscriber"shula_guy wrote:
It was directed at the people calling local fans bad fans for not going to the games then making excuses why they could not go when they were asked why they dont attend games. Then we also have out of state fans telling Florida residents that they should gladly want to loan Ross the money to renovate.
Assume for a moment that a new stadium will boost the local economy around the stadium, how does that benefit the rest of the state. That added tax will discourage tourism and negativily impact the local economies.
I appologize for coming off like such a Dick in this thread and I have no ill will toward any of you, I am just trying to drive my point home. It is a significant commitment of time and money to be a season ticket holder. I have tons of respect for those that do it but I would never criticize somebody who chooses not to do it. I'm doing it sarcastically right now only to show some people how unreasonable they are being about stadium attendence and where the money should come from foe the renovation.
FTR: I do not live in the Miami market so my numbers may be off here but think about this for a moment.
Average fan season ticket holder:
1. At least two seats, nobody buys just 1 $50 each? 10 games? $1000 on tickets
2. $40 to park
3. Food/Beer/ProgramIts not cheap to go to a game and from what I hear getting in and out of the stadium is a slow process so it costs lots of time too. Forget the 4 O'Clock game, you aint gonna see it. Add to that the dejected feeling you have because your team loses its home games. Just because people are getting tired of that does not make them fair weather fans.
The added hotel tax will likely go unoticed. People outside of Miami likely know very little about the tax in the first place and aren't reviewing their hotell bill close enough to even know there is a tax. I know when I visit Miami, I am paying a premium and have no problem. I hardly ever go over my hotel bill with a fine tooth comb. I imagine most other don't either. And if its 10-15 bucks or whatever I'm not going to cancel my trip to Miami over it. Vegas does the same thing and nobody stopped going to Vegas. I highly doubt anyone will stop going to Miami. There are few locations like Miami to simply go somewhere else. Not like you can just go to Jacksonville instead. I live down the street from a newly createde stadium (at the time) FedEx Field in Landover Maryland. The area around it wasn't always the best area, but after property values have gone up and it truly has helped the local economy, so much that the residents of DC want the stadium back in the city. Good look with that though.
And my point wasn't directed at becoming a Season Ticket Holder. The Miami Dolphins attendance rate is indicative of fans not going to games at all. Expecting everone to be a STH isn't really practical, but its pretty clear most local fans aren't even popping in to see a game at all. Most of the time we aren't talking direclty to the forum members, because there is already a reasonable assumption of fanhood. However, as local fans its easy to get generalized in with the rest of the Miami fanbase. In most instance its not directed at YOU...but at the Miami local fanbase in general.
Dolphins Football. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
Stringer BellsubscriberThe Miami hotel industry has endorsed the Dolphins plan, so I'm not sure there is a strong argument that the tax would be detrimental to tourism.
“Come on, shake your body baby, do that conga!”
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