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2008 Mets!!! LETS GO METS!!!

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by NJFINSFAN1, Mar 22, 2008.

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  1. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Thats a bunch of good points brother. We definitely need more guys who perform in big games. You would have to wonder if Omar's plans would include Manny for that reason. Sure hes 35 or 36 but if Omar offered him 3 years and 60 mil...well its an interesting scenario and one that wouldnt upset me at all.

    As far as Murphy, like I said a few pages back, hes scheduled to play in winter ball at 2b. Hes played the position before, just not in a handful of years as he converted to 3B at Jacksonville State. Michael Young is one player who had a similar problem at one point finding a position. Like the saying goes though: If you hit they'll find a spot for ya. :wink2:
     
  2. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    true, but our dl history isnt limited to older vets. church and maine are definitely not old. Neither was beltran in past years....

    I would choose Smoltz based purely on what this team needs; leadership and a dude who just gets it done in big spots. :yes:
     
  3. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    again, wouldnt surprise me. Id rather go that route then spend 15 million per on KRod.
     
  4. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    This isnt the first place Ive seen someone suggest trading one of our core players and I cant say Im on board with it. Wright and Reyes are still both kids who havent even hit their primes yet and Beltran is still the best CF. We need to add to the core, not take away from it. These guys are the reason we are good, not the reason we are bad.

    Plus Fernando, hasnt shown he's ready yet to play everyday. He cant stay healthy for more then 2 months at a time. While injuries are more likely with kids like him who are still developing physically its not really a good idea in my opinion to leave him as a starter. Let him break in as a back up if anything and if Church isnt hitting by the middle of next year he takes over RF.

    Trading Wright does open up 3B but it also creates a 123 rbi hole in the middle of your lineup. Plus, you lose the advantage of putting Murphy at 2B, his natural position. Murphy's bat as a 3B is average like it is in LF. But at 2B, hes a huge asset because 2B is such a hard position to find offense from.

    As far as Reyes, Im not sure that theres 1 player more important to their lineup then Reyes is to us. He needs to be more consistent and learn to finish the year strong, but hes carrying the burden of a whole lineup in that if he doesnt get on base, the lineup doesnt seem to score runs. Thats a lot for any one player to carry. To expect him to be Rickey Henderson isnt only unreasonable, its just a lofty expectation. I can understand the frustration after hes had 3 bad septembers, but again hes what 24? 25?

    You know I can recall a comparable situation...some team once traded a 2B with similar stats and attributes as Reyes at the same point in their careers. The 2B once traded, went on to a HOF career, multiple WS, and is widely regarded as one of the best 2B's ever. Robbie Alomar ring a bell? Look at his stats compared to reyes'. Reyes stacks up very well. The kid hasnt peaked yet. :wink2:
     
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  5. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Just saw this

    The obvious candidates to be deleted are Schoeneweis and Aaron Heilman, but you can include Luis Castillo and take a closer look at Ryan Church (who struck out six straight times while going 0-for-9 over the weekend), too.

    And what of their two young stars, David Wright and Jose Reyes? The third baseman batted .333 in September, but hit just .243 with runners in scoring position this season. He didn’t have an extra base hit in the final six games, and took a quiet 0-for-4 on Sunday.

    Reyes is Radical Option A. His enormous athleticism has been systematically undermined by his impatience at the plate; he doesn’t see enough pitches, swings at too many balls out of the strike zone and doesn’t get on base often enough (.358) for a leadoff hitter.

    Make no mistake: Reyes is a nice, sincere kid who played harder for Jerry Manuel than he did for Randolph. But he’s not getting enough out of his skills; his .297 average and 58 stolen bases are cosmetically attractive, but otherwise a red flag .

    Beltran is another option: He’s the Mets’ best five-tool player, graceful as he is polite. Still, there’s no escaping the feeling that Beltran is cruising through his contract at Shea. The center fielder is simply better than the .284 and 27 homers he produced this year.


    NorthJersey.com: Time to clean houses after another flop
     
  6. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    I'll gladly trade you Andruw Jones for Carlos Beltran straight up. :couch:
     
  7. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    And that just proves Klapisch is not that smart.

    Wright hit 333 this september and over 400 the 2nd half last year. Yeah, lets trade that guys! Hes definitely part of the problem. He said it himself, Wright was terrible with risp...oh how many players would beg to be as bad as he was and still drive in 123. The agony of being accountable and 'fessing up to underachieving...yeah lets trade him. The silliness of the idea should not be overlooked. :yes:

    Reyes and Beltran have flaws, but both have shown improvement. Beltran has finally toughened up to New York. Hes finally started to come through in big spots. Maybe whats holding Beltran back isnt his "putting it on cruise control" but rather the lack of what the Mets are asking him to do. Ive said for 3 years hes a #2 hitter. thats where his best seasons were. If you ask him to be a power hitter, he presses and you get good, not great results. We need to get him in a position where he can use his speed more. Let him be the doubles hitter he is. With him behind Reyes, thats an insane top of the lineup.

    As far as Reyes, hes just going to have to suck it up and be patient. He was at .370 last year and .360 this year in OBP. Why walk when you can hit your way in to scoring position on about 35% of your hits and your SB% isnt great? And for the record Reyes was pretty good in pitches seen per AB.....he certainly was 3-2 on a couple of AB's yesterday.

    If he wants to clean house, then clean the crap out: Show, Sanchez, Heilman, Slapstillo, Castro...get rid of the guys who dog it. The guys who are always injured, complaining, or just not getting it done.
     
  8. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    :no:

    Nice try though. :shifty:
     
  9. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Per Rotoworld (take it for what its worth considering the source):

    According to SI.com's Jon Heyman, the Mets will retain manager Jerry Manuel in 2009.
    As far as we can tell, the Mets' recent performance wasn't entirely "gangsta," as the team blew a 3 1/2-game lead in the NL East by going 7-10 over its last 17 games. Still, the 55-38 record the team had in Manuel's tenure will allow him to keep his job.
    Source: SI.com
     
  10. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well Wright did hit well, but was awful with runners in scoring position.

    I don't want to trade him, but he was awful and a big part why we fell on our face in Sept.
     
  11. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I marvel at the ability of Mets fans to come back year after year and take their beatings. You guys are like battered wives. "I know he hurts me, but deep down I think he really loves me" I guess that one ring you get every twenty years makes the beatings worthwhile
     
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  12. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    I second that. And we'll even throw in Juan Pierre for Jose Reyes...
     
  13. NyPhinfan

    NyPhinfan Season Ticket Holder

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    I am just so dusgusted right now and need to vent but there is time for all that..all winter. Wanted to congratulate the Phillies and the Brewers on a job well done and a hard fought battle. Good Luck in the Playoffs!:up:
     
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  14. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Santana has left knee surgery

    Mets ace Johan Santana had left knee surgery on Wednesday to repair a torn meniscus, SI.com has learned. He is expected to make a full recovery and be ready in time for spring training.
    Adding to his legacy as one of the game's elite starters, Santana was pitching with a hurt left knee on Saturday when he shutout the Marlins on three days' rest to keep the Mets' postseason hopes alive.

    Jon Heyman: Santana has left knee surgery - MLB - SI.com


    WOW, JUST WOW, this guy is worth every penny!
     
  15. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Chris Leible, one of Santana's agents, said Santana's knee had bothered him throughout September, but that Santana did not want to have it checked out for fear that he would be advised not to continue pitching.
     
  16. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Well we know one thing..johan was worth every cent so far. Now lets get some studs around him.

    Im definitely warming up to the idea that omar will make a big pitch for manny. We need a RH bat and its likely going to be either manny or Ibanez if I had to guess. Let ollie walk to even the payroll out.

    Also contract talks with manuel have hit a snag according to newsday and the NY daily news.
     
  17. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I would love Manny, the only thing that scares me is what will he play like with that big contract?
     
  18. Higgi

    Higgi Numb Club Member

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    Bobby V interested in coaching the Mets again if Manuel doesn't resign?
    link
    Don't flame me for this, but i kinda miss the late 90s, early 00's Mets... something about them that I will always love.
     
  19. finswin56

    finswin56 Get a mop

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    We've talked about Bobby V before, and I think most of us would welcome him back with open arms :up:
     
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  20. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    Manuel signed a 2 year deal with a club option for a 3rd year according to the ticker on ESPN.
     
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  21. Higgi

    Higgi Numb Club Member

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    well i guess we wont be seeing bobby v in the dougout.... manuel got a 2 year contract w/ a club option for a third. this is a good thing. it looked like the team responded well to him (55-38)... just too bad we couldnt finish the job :pity:.
     
  22. mixmaster_matt

    mixmaster_matt New Member

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  23. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    This was definitely something i was hoping for. Guess it wasnt meant to be but Ill take Bobby V over just about anyone else any day. Not only was the guy one of the best in game managers around but he got to the world series with quite possibly the worst outfield ever assembled. He deserved a WS ring just for getting there with Agbayani, Timo Perez and the Daryl Hamilton/Jay Payton platoon.

    Manuel is good but hes definitely not as sharp in game as Valentine was. :wink2:
     
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  24. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The Mets plan on targeting Derek Lowe and Brian Fuentes in the free agent market, an NL executive who has talked to team officials told the Post. The Mets are promising to be creative and explore many avenues. But Lowe (a dependable innings eater) and Fuentes (a proven closer) fit the Mets' top two needs, and are going to be pursued by the organization this offseason.

    New York Post
     
  25. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Lowe :yes:
    Fuentes :yes:

    Next: Manny :yes:

    Dont forget to offer Ollie arbitration so you get a draft pick when someone signs him.

    BTW: Tatis won the players vote for comeback player of the year :ffic:
     
  26. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

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    Looks like the Red Sox are at the top of Lowe's wish list.

    Derek Lowe interested in Red Sox, not Yankees, report says - New York Yankees baseball - NJ.com

    The Rockies may decided to up their offer to keep Fuentes. The Rocky Mountain News just reported that Casey Weathers had elbow surgery and is likely out for all of 2009, so I think they will do their best to keep Fuentes.

    The Phils are going to make a pitch for Holliday and/or Atkins, so this should free up some dollars for the Rocks to keep Fuentes. :tongue2:
     
  27. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    No surprise there with Lowe. He's always loved Boston. Interesting to see whether the Sox want him back and if so if Lowe would take less money and possible years to come back.
     
  28. GreenMonster

    GreenMonster New Member

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    I have no clue if they could get this to work, but I would be all for it. If Lowe somehow signs here I would feel much easier about letting Bowden go in a trade. Would Lowe accept a 2 year deal if the money was right, I am not sure right now?
     
  29. GreenMonster

    GreenMonster New Member

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    Great story. I am sure most of us wrote him off around 2002, 2003, when he was just bad. Does he have a contract for next year yet?
     
  30. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    No you'd have to offer him at least 3 years. But I wouldn't mind giving him 3 years for 40-44 million range.
     
  31. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Mets, Rays in trade talks
    The Mets and Tampa have had preliminary discussions about the Rays' pitching depth, notably Nos. 4 and 5 starters Andy Sonnanstine and Edwin Jackson. The Rays do not believe the Mets have the pieces necessary to pry one of the four starters projected to front Tampa's rotation in 2009: Scott Kazmir (remember him, Mets?), James Shields, Matt Garza and David Price. But Tampa is blessed with depth in Sonnanstine (13-9, 4.38) and Jackson (14-11, 4.42), plus Jason Hammel, Jeff Niemann and Mitch Talbot. They have let the Mets know there might be a potential for a deal among that group. Tampa continues to have interest in Aaron Heilman, but not to the extent it had in the past, in part because the Rays' belief that Heilman can be transitioned to the rotation has dwindled. Thus, the Mets would have to surrender more to complete a deal. (New York Post)
    Comment
     
  32. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Jackson is nothing special even though he was highly hyped a few years ago. He still hasnt learned how to really pitch, hes still just a dud with solid "stuff."

    I dont mind Sonnanstine. I think both have cheap contracts so it wouldnt be bad if one of these guys was competing with Niese for the 5th spot.
     
  33. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I think Jackson would be an interesting choice for a closer actually.

    As for Sonnanstine, I really don't think he's anything special so if the Mets can get him for a bag of balls (or Heliman) they should do it but if they have to give up anything useful it's not worth it.
     
  34. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    What about Jackson makes you think hes worthy of a shot at closer. Everything I have seen makes me think hes fragile.

    Heilman for Sonnanstine is a done deal for me, if it was up to me. TB has been after the guy forever it seems because they like him as a starter. Sonnanstine just seems like a guy who could take the ball every 5th day and be a very solid 4th/5ths starter give you 200 ip a year and not kill ya.
     
  35. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Why not give him a try? The guy obivously has good stuff and throws harder in limit innings (as he did in the post season this year), so it could be worth it to give him a try. The only negative is he could be wild at times but that goes for probably 20 closers in the game right now. And even if Jackson couldn't close, he could still be a decent starter for any team, especially in the NL.
     
  36. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The Mets are expected to pursue the top two free-agent closers, Francisco Rodriguez and Brian Fuentes. But before they spend another $10-million plus per year on a closer (they'll pay injured Billy Wagner $11 million in 2009), they are investigating several trade possibilities.
    Seattle's J.J. Putz and Oakland's Huston Street are two of those possibilities, but there are others. Mets GM Omar Minaya spoke here about how relievers often follow a bad year with a good one, and perhaps that is the hope for Putz, Street or the others. However, one Mets person suggested Street was especially unimpressive last year.
    Signing one of the two big closers remains the more likely scenario. Many here could see the Mets going big for K-Rod. However, club officials insist they hate the idea of a five-year contract for a closer, and are a little concerned about his drop on velocity (though his effectiveness remained high, as he set a new record with 62 saves).
    The Indians, Cardinals and Rangers are among several other teams interested in acquiring a closer. So the demand probably outpaces the supply.

    Hot Stove News Tracker | FanNation
     
  37. phunwin

    phunwin Happy kids are Dolfans. Luxury Box

    Metsblog has said the White Sox and Mets may be kicking around a Luis Castillo for Javier Vazquez "your garbage for mine" swap. I'd be on that in a heartbeat. Vazquez is a decent pitcher who eats innings. On a staff that's got some injury concerns, with a bullpen that was awful at the worst possible time, that has value.
     
  38. phunwin

    phunwin Happy kids are Dolfans. Luxury Box

    I'm not an advocate of the "change of scenery" deal, but I think Heilman probably needs one. He strikes me as a guy whose confidence is in the toilet, and I'm not sure he's going to get it back here. I would absolutely take Sonnanstine for Heilman. Sonnanstine is a good pitcher who's just getting better. I like his potential; he had a K/BB ratio in the minors of better than 6 to 1. (He's at about 3.5 to 1 in the bigs right now.)

    Jackson? No thanks. Granted, the Dodgers rushed his development, and probably didn't do wonders for his progress, but at 24, I don't think he's going to get much better than he is right now. Look at that K/BB ratio...UGH!

    And yes, I know I'm harping on K/BB ratio, but looking at strikeouts and walks is easily the best tool for projecting a young pitcher. Guys with high walks and low strikeouts seldom get very far. Tom Glavine's one of the very few examples I can think of where a contemporary pitcher has achieved great success despite an unremarkable K/BB ratio (about 1.7 K/BB for his career). And Sonnanstine projects MUCH better than Jackson.
     
  39. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    They were talking about that yesterday on WFAN, I would be all over that also. Even if we don't sign someone for second, I thought Reyes showed enough to play the spot. And we need an innings eater!
     
  40. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    As Phunwin pointed out below those walks arent really conducive to closing. Maybe as a 5th starter type but this pen walks too many as it is. We just got rid of Oliver Perez we dont need part 2 at a less advanced stage.

    Putz :yes:
    street wouldnt be a bad alternative. I would much prefer either over signing Krod or Fuentes for 10 or 13 mil per.

    Vazquez concerns me. Not as much as Castillo but its never good when youre own manager calls you soft and heartless. If the rumors of a Castillo-Byrness swap arr true I would much prefer that.

    Agreed.
     

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