As a community, it seems like there are varying degrees of confidence in RT. While some may herald him as our unquestioned leader, others are quick to want to ship him out of town. There are others that take a more moderate approach and think that drafting a QB for competition seems to be a reasonable solution, and still others yet think that we need to improve the backup situation.
I think that most would agree that we need to at least look at the quarterback position. Currently, it appears that Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, and Allen may be off the board at the Dolphins' pick. Most pundits do see a significant drop off between the top four QBs and the rest of the QB class. Additionally, most talent evaluators would agree that Jackson is not a top 10 type talent.
But last night, I started having an interesting thought. I don't think your particular value/grade on Jackson is neither here nor there. The aforementioned players could hypothetically be gone, so their grades and comparisons no longer matter. What we are dealing with at the 11th pick is a matter of certainty vs. uncertainty. We could draft Jackson and have him on our roster or have the unknown. We have no clue or no way of predicting who will be available at later rounds. All we will have is the present.
Furthermore, we have no clue what the future may hold. If RT flames out and is obviously not the answer behind a retooled line, we have no guarantee of any player that we can get next year. RT has been bad at times, but has never been consistently terrible. I think 5 - 11 is possible, but I don't think we could be first pick of the draft bad. That being said, even if there is a guy that we really like that is coming out next year, there is no promise that we could draft him.
All we have is the present. I think that the only question that should be discussed at the 11 position is, "Is Lamar Jackson a starting caliber quarterback at the NFL level?" We should not be discussing his grade, where mock drafts have him going, comparing him to current, previous, or future draft classes.
If you think he is too much of a project to develop, I think that is a fair reason to pass. If you want to give RT one more chance, understand that the future holds a lot of uncertainty. On draft day, you may very well have certainty. There is a lot to be said for certainty.
Page 1 of 2
-
Sceeto, texanphinatic, Wilkimania and 2 others like this.
-
Funny I had a feeling that Jackson is the guy even if Mayfield was there.
Normally Gase is kind of hush hush when he feels like it and for all the hype put out there about Dolphins and Gases liking of Mayfield seemed just a bit to much and was thinking "smoke screen" and since the other top liners probably will be gone by 11 was thinking Jackson might be the man all along that Gase see's as some one he can mold into a good QB.
The guy definitely has a hell of a lot of talent and potential...
but shhhhhhhhhhhhh........ -
I don't think you add more true 2 way go slot types if you plan on plucking lamar Jackson at 11
now at 42 I'd say all bets are off cause there is a game you can play with lamar ie zone read and pistol with rpo and built in type stuff that can work...while you develop the narrow base and passer...predetermined and easy primary reads/ throws etc.
but the nfl will kill that kid the same way it killed rg3 if he plays to contact...like rg3 Jackson cannot afford to lose his quick acceleration to outflank the opposition as a ball carrier... not when his passing game is such a significant work in progress at this stageLast edited: Mar 28, 2018 -
I appreciate the thought out post and I'll say upfront that I know nothing about Jackson or the draft. What I do know though is that Miami has been looking at Luke Falk hard and he will likely be available in the 3rd or 4th round. While I agree with you that it's foolish to compare Jackson to the #1, #2, #4 and #5 picks since those aren't options to us, we will have a chance to get Jackson mid-1st round or Falk about 60-90 total picks after that.
So I do think it's worth directly comparing Falk AND a starting caliber 1st rounder versus Jackson AND a potential starter in the 3rd round- which has more value?
Also, I don't think Tannehill enters into this discussion either. I am in the "for RT" camp but at the same time, he's been on the bench for a year and a half. We don't have the luxury of not having another potential QB1 in the fold regardless what happens with Tannehill, so in my mind is it mandatory to draft a QB somewhere and let them beat out Fales, Doughty and Osweiller. I know Gase is extremely high on Fales as well and I think he lands in the #2 or #3 roster slot, which means we'll have a 3-way battle for one spot.
In my opinion, that's how it should be every single season. Because of Fales though, I don't think we take a QB in round 1 unless one of the top four slide to us. And if one of them were to slide, then I still don't think we take them because we'd be trading down and picking up an extra 2nd/3rd round pick from somebody.
I said all of that to say this- we will take Luke Falk in the 3rd to 5th round. That's who the team wants and they're meeting with him today.
Here's a video with the Dallas Cowboys analysis of Falk (sorry I can't embed it)-
And here's an article comparing his training regimen to Brady's (and his general obsession with Brady, studying film, etc....it's a fun read since his entire college team rooted against the Pats just to give him hell)-Last edited: Mar 28, 2018Surfs Up 99 and Hoops like this. -
I can get down with falk in the 4th...doesn't have the kind of live arm that will get him overdrafted...I'd like to do better with a position talent in the 3rd if possible though
I think falk fits our o too probably better than anyone not named josh rosen
but with falk what's the upside? average nfl starter? arm strength can improve with core work etc but physical tools wise he can't sniff tannehillKeyFin likes this. -
Jackson looks like a toothpick out there. No way he lasts more than five years.
-
Lamar Jackson at combine - 216 lbs
Ryan Tannehill on nfl.com - 216 lbs
Russell Wilson on nfl.com - 215 lbs
Andy Dalton went to the combine with the exact same height and weight as Lamar Jackson.
I guess they are all toothpicks then.Surfs Up 99 and shamegame13 like this. -
Hard pass.
-
I remember last year reading “DeShaun Watson will be a bust/Next RG3/Not Accurate”.... I wonder why him and Lamar are both fetching the same label? Hmmmm.....
Watson is already better than our QB.phinswolverinesrockets likes this. -
What? Yes, Watson surprised a lot of people and made many eat crow, but saying he's already better than RT is just way too premature. He's played in 7 games, started only 6, for God's sake...ripper1961 likes this. -
Going by just weight and height isn't going to give a person a good idea about a players build. Jackson, in particular his lower body, is very slight. I'm 6'-1" and about 225lbs. I'm not close to fat or skinny (I wear 32-33 waist-36 inseam pants), but I bet you that Wilson, RT, and Dalton would "look" heavier than I do in person. I'm not so sure Jackson would.Hiruma78, eltos_lightfoot and Surfs Up 99 like this.
-
I think your thoughts on Falk sort of take us down that same road as Jackson. We are sitting there at #11, and that is the ONLY time that we can be absolutely certain that he will be available. Simply saying that we can get him in the 3rd to 5th round is problematic. Let's say we split the difference and agree that we are going to take him in the 4th round. We run the risk that a single team could view him as a 3rd round pick, and he may be gone.
Going one step further, assuming the Dolphins truly do like him, there are probably other teams that have evaluated him just as highly. If that is the case, then why not take him in the 2nd round? If you have a starting caliber QB, and you take him one round too early, so what, right? I mean, realistically, shouldn't you draft him at #11? Aside from getting roasted by Mel Kiper Jr. on draft night, what does it matter? The beauty of being Mel Kiper Jr. is there are no consequences for being wrong. Suppose a guy like Dak Prescott, Russel Wilson, or Kirk Cousins was drafted in the first round. They pick would be laughed at on draft night, but in the end, it would have been a solid pick. Mel Kiper could have ranked one of the top QBs in the class as a mid round pick. Does he get fired? Nope.
The point is, you never really know when you can get a guy. And if you are wrong by just a single pick, it is essentially the same as being wrong by several rounds.
Now, I imagine that most of you guys would scoff at the notion that we should take Falk in the first round, and if that is the case, isn't it far more telling about your TRUE feelings toward Falk than your feelings about my assertion.
I fundamentally wonder aloud, "If you are not willing to take a QB in the first round, how much can you really think that he is the answer?" -
There's a huge flaw in this line of thinking.
If you love Falk you love him for his potential. Yes, that can be said about every player you pick in the draft, but his potential becoming reality is for more unlikely than say someone like Edmunds, Smith, Fitz, Mayfield, etc, etc. Wilson, Prescott, and Cousins, by all accounts, far surpassed their perceived potential.
And if teams drafted the way you're proposing you'd get far more busts than Wilson's. -
I am a big fan of Jackson, but I am not sure Gase wouldn't want to adjust our offense to fit him. We have had a hard enough time to get guys to understand what to do as it is.
Last edited: Mar 29, 2018 -
-
Perhaps. But it is entirely possible that there would be fewer busts. Think about how the scouting process would change. It would essentially be, "Do you think player X is a starting caliber QB?" If yes, you draft him in the first round, if not, he becomes a late round guy.
So in a given year, there may be three names on your list and in another year there may be six.
So think about it this year. Let's just say that the ultimate consensus was that Mayfield, Allen, Darnold, and Rosen are the only ones that team scouts believe are starting caliber QBs. Those guys would be the only picks. It's only if scout were to go out limb and could convince the front office that a fifth guy really could be a starter is where the Wilsons and Cousins would rise up.
I really think that teams being luke (pun intended) warm on a QB winds up as more wasted draft picks.
Think about our recent history of Beck, Henne, and White. Was the first sign that they were not going to work out that fact that we passed on each of them. -
watsons intermediate accuracy was missing in college...been better in the pros...of course the qb ask read wise and route concept wise under Obrien has really helped
they did a complete 180 offense scheme and play call wise when Watson was inserted...smart not to ask him to make multi reads from the pocket
lots of one read and primary throws...hide his pocket weaknessesdanmarino likes this. -
Russell Wilson is probably the smallest Qb out there at 5'11", 215. He has played 6 seasons...he's played in all 16 games every year.
Again, give me talent over weight and build. -
There are several other teams interested in Falk from what I read- New England in particular. Some have suggested that he's the obvious heir apparent to Brady in a few more years....again though, I'm just repeating what I read and I have no idea how accurate it is. The Bears ad Cowboys have also had him in for a visit.
-
Again, going by just height and weight in order to judge a players build will not get you any worthwhile information.
Have you ever seen Wilson in person? I have. He's built like a brick. Jackson is built like a spaghetti noodle. In particular his lower body.eltos_lightfoot likes this. -
So, 11 out of 14 years he's played every single game? That's pretty good for a quarterback prone to contact as he is.
-
Jackson and RT are actyally very similar in their skill sets and deficiencies. But RT is definitely better overall. I dont see Jackson as a potential upgrade over RT so there is no point in drafting him imo unless he drops to the 3rd or 4th round.
Redwine4all likes this. -
This is funny. I recently mentioned that I have switched and I want them to take Jackson.
Totally. That's the stage I've reached in my fandom. I'm in the f--k it kind of stage, you know?
Draft him, sit back, have a beer, have some fun. Eff it.
I too would be worried about his build. However, if he's properly coached up, he shouldn't run as much as he did in college.
I usually prefer a good, more classic pocket passer, though I would always like that extra dimension if possible.
He can throw a nice ball and though he' s a good runner, when he does, he often keeps his eyes downfield and looks first for the pass if there, which is key. When done well, that really opens up the D and gets guys out of position, etc. That could be big in the NFL.
Hey, if Tanne is healthy and continues on that upward trajectory and plays well, then great! We have our guy and Jackson sits for awhile.
You know........eff it.Last edited: Mar 28, 2018 -
Not interested in Jackson...his arm is not what it needs to be. Great athlete...but bad passer.
-
Did you see where they compared Jackson's rushing TDs to Saquon Barkley's? I don't expect Jackson to be as productive in the pros. Guys are faster and bigger and perhaps more prepared, but Jackson's productivity is intriguing. I have sort of backed off saying I would like to see us trade back and get him, but I keep wondering if it would be a mistake to pass on him.Sceeto and Redwine4all like this.
-
No he was saying the opposite, only has played a full season 3 times in his 14 year career.
-
We had one in Tannehill. I understand the team's strategy in cleaning house, but it would have really been nice to see what Flores and Chad O'Shea could have done with Tannehill.Galant likes this.
-
I was sky high on the kid coming out....Dolphins messed up as usual
phinswolverinesrockets likes this. -
Most everybody was focused on the "sure thing", two time Heisman winner, not just the Dolphins. Just like this year.
-
I wasn’t sad to see him go. He showed a lot of flashes and we’ve seen what he can do when everything around him is perfect but we weren’t going to be there for a few years. I’m still interested to see how he plays under pressure when we watched him take too many sacks and turn the ball over.
Page 1 of 2