Adam Gase explains roster purge and Tannehill/Parker

I mean looking back and trying not to have a bias angle for the team, but it does look like those guys were just not being the best we needed them to be in certain capacities.

Ajayi was a pric and only wanted to run certain plays, got full of himself after some success.

Jarvis was an animal on the field but a poor leader of men, too immature.

Suh is a diva plain and simple, and also not a good leader of men, doesn't care about his legacy imo.

Pouncey is just not a smart guy, he's been overpaid for years considering the games and practice time he missed..more than compensated fairly, should of protected his legacy and taken a paycut.

I love the point about how they were in position to make a run after beating the pats and just showed their azzez..poor leadership.

I do believe a great coach should be able to connect and galvanize a team, but Pouncey, Suh, Juice, and Ajayi are not his players.

"djphinfan wrote:

I love the point about how they were in position to make a run after beating the pats and just showed their azzez..poor leadership.

I do believe a great coach should be able to connect and galvanize a team, but Pouncey, Suh, Juice, and Ajayi are not his players.

Those guys were NEVER going to step up in that capacity. We would have seen it already.

It's probably only me, but when he talked about Parker I was like, Parker? Oh yeah, I forgot about him. When I think of our offense and it's possible productivity this up coming season he's the last person I think about, if I remember him at all. I hope that changes after week 1.

"djphinfan wrote:

I mean looking back and trying not to have a bias angle for the team, but it does look like those guys were just not being the best we needed them to be in certain capacities.

Ajayi was a pric and only wanted to run certain plays, got full of himself after some success.

Jarvis was an animal on the field but a poor leader of men, too immature.

Suh is a diva plain and simple, and also not a good leader of men, doesn't care about his legacy imo.

Pouncey is just not a smart guy, he's been overpaid for years considering the games and practice time he missed..more than compensated fairly, should of protected his legacy and taken a paycut.

I love the point about how they were in position to make a run after beating the pats and just showed their azzez..poor leadership.

I do believe a great coach should be able to connect and galvanize a team, but Pouncey, Suh, Juice, and Ajayi are not his players.

I struggle to label Suh in the same fashion as the other immature players. Suh isn't immature, not a diva either. He's an extraordinary talent, but moreso, I think he sees his talent as a business asset. I don't think he plays for fun. He's competitive and wants to win, but he's in it mainly for the money. I don't have a problem with that.

Reads like a smear campaign to me

"Rock Sexton wrote:

I found the below quote interesting. Reinforces exactly what I thought was going on i.e. forcing the ball to Landry.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article208004759.html#storylink=cpy

That's the thing- we could "force the ball" to anyone so they can rack up 1k yards and 8 TD's...we did that not too long ago with Hartline because there really wasn't anyone else to throw to. And guess what? Hartline had the bigger single game. Imagine what would have happened if we targeted Drake or Grant 160 times and he had Landry's 100+ catches?

We'd probably be talking another 500+ yards and 5+ TD's (I broke this down in another thread what each receiver would have looked like with 101 catches....Landry was 2nd to worst behind Fasano).

I have always liked Landry on the field, but he's a guy you should throw to 3-5 times per game on short down/yards or across the middle on early downs. These 10+ pass games simply made others key him and killed far too many drives. Once you add in the tantrums and the fights though, he's just not a guy I want on our team. Great player, but far too selfish for someone so limited on what he can do.

"Ohio Fanatic wrote:

I struggle to label Suh in the same fashion as the other immature players. Suh isn't immature, not a diva either. He's an extraordinary talent, but moreso, I think he sees his talent as a business asset. I don't think he plays for fun. He's competitive and wants to win, but he's in it mainly for the money. I don't have a problem with that.

I don’t think anyone had a problem with that, he just wasn’t worth the overpriced amount we would have had to pay him going forward. (As evidenced by his $14 million dollar paycheck for the upcoming season.) He did everything we asked, and we paid him like it.

No, Landry is a different situation though. I am a little surprised we did the right thing and let someone else overpay for him. The old dolphins would totally make a stupid decision and overpay for a player like Landry. Less is more sometimes. I think we will miss Suh’s reliability more than we will miss Landry.

"eltos_lightfoot wrote:

I don’t think anyone had a problem with that, he just wasn’t worth the overpriced amount we would have had to pay him going forward. (As evidenced by his $14 million dollar paycheck for the upcoming season.) He did everything we asked, and we paid him like it.

No, Landry is a different situation though. I am a little surprised we did the right thing and let someone else overpay for him. The old dolphins would totally make a stupid decision and overpay for a player like Landry. Less is more sometimes. I think we will miss Suh’s reliability more than we will miss Landry.

yeah I agree. I've said it multiple times - I don't think we miss Landry at all with our current WR lineup (assuming no major injuries). I believe if we add a TE in the draft, our receiving corps will be even better.

The Dolphins have made plenty of big changes to the roster this offseason. The changes were sparked in part by the team’s effort, of lack thereof, during a 24-16 loss to the Bills.

“That game at Buffalo just seemed like a 20-hour game,” coach Adam Gase recently said on The Joe Rose Show, via the Palm Beach Post. “I was just waiting for us to turn the corner and really get going and nothing was working for us. There was no swagger, no attitude, and it was disappointing to see. It wasn’t everybody. You turn on that tape, there are guys that stand out noticeably as far as their effort and their play that was extremely high, and they were giving everything they had. We just did not have enough guys doing that. That’s why we felt like we needed to change some things around.”

The Dolphins had just upset the Patriots on a Monday night in Miami, a win that seemed to potentially get a rocky season on track. The loss at Buffalo sparked a three-game slide that sealed the team’s fate for 2017.

Gase’s comments represent a more specific twist on a concept he seemed to agree with during a conversation at the league meetings in Orlando. The adversity that the Dolphins faced throughout the 2017 season made it easier for Gase to determine who is and isn’t fully on board. Moving forward, Gase surely wants more of the guys who will be all in no matter what, and fewer of the guys who won’t be.

The only think I can hold out hope on is that a lot of the players that were on that team Last year we’re here before Gase..

I was so disgusted after the pats game and said on the board that I felt that the dolphins were acting way to cocky afterwards considering that haven’t accomplished jack sh## as a team, I said if they show their azz against the bills it means something ain’t right in that locker room..

There was no damn good reason why they came out looking like that except that it must be a locker room problem..

What I’m really confused about is how much blame should I be allocating to Gase in this matter, I mean maybe this team didn’t respect the move to not give Matt Moore a legit shot st the job, maybe it’s the coaches job to find ways to connect with players so that they do t let what happened in Buffalo happen ya know..

But I keep coming back to this, he gave it a shot with others people players, now it’s time to get his

"Finatik wrote:

Gase’s comments represent a more specific twist on a concept he seemed to agree with during a conversation at the league meetings in Orlando. The adversity that the Dolphins faced throughout the 2017 season made it easier for Gase to determine who is and isn’t fully on board. Moving forward, Gase surely wants more of the guys who will be all in no matter what, and fewer of the guys who won’t be.

That's a smart viewpoint because you really don't learn anything about adversity on a winning team where everything is falling in your favor. But when things go wrong, key players get hurt and a hurricane knocks down your stadium, you learn really quick who's going to work even harder because you're at a disadvantage.

The media is big on calling this a "culture change" but I think that's inaccurate- we just want folks who are committed and willing to outwork everyone else. That mentality starts with leaders in the locker room so there is some culture there, but it's really more about unselfish football and doing what's best for the franchise.

Landry and Ajayi didn't do that. Pouncey couldn't do that with his hip pain. Suh obviously didn't do that taking 20% of our entire cap space...his on-field production was irrelevant since we were paying him the cost of 3-5 solid starting players. I don't think any of these moves were about ability as much as all the little intangibles that produce 22 solid starters.

"djphinfan wrote:

The only think I can hold out hope on is that a lot of the players that were on that team Last year we’re here before Gase..

I was so disgusted after the pats game and said on the board that I felt that the dolphins were acting way to cocky afterwards considering that haven’t accomplished jack sh## as a team, I said if they show their azz against the bills it means something ain’t right in that locker room..

There was no damn good reason why they came out looking like that except that it must be a locker room problem..

What I’m really confused about is how much blame should I be allocating to Gase in this matter, I mean maybe this team didn’t respect the move to not give Matt Moore a legit shot st the job, maybe it’s the coaches job to find ways to connect with players so that they do t let what happened in Buffalo happen ya know..

But I keep coming back to this, he gave it a shot with others people players, now it’s time to get his

Yeah that's a good point. No matter how you look at it, there has to be a takeaway that we saw something from this last year that Gase just was not good at. That doesn't mean he isn't a good coach, but we know he isn't that guy that can motivate anyone, reach everyone, and finds a way to put his team in a position to win, regardless of talent. I think its fair to say while he is evaluating the team, there should also be an ongoing effort to evaluate him as well.

While it is unfair to expect the impossible, at least some measure of blame has to find its way to Gase. Its clear it was more then just a few guys that didn't buy into the program. An attempt to change culture means that it was more negative then good in that locker room, I would have hoped that change should have been a key point in adjustment at the start of the 2nd year.

He gets a pass from me on the actual outcome of the season. I had written it off when Tannehill went down. However, I had hoped to see what type of a leader he was when things didn't go as planned. That was what we got a glimpse of this last year.

"Phins_to_Win wrote:

Yeah that's a good point. No matter how you look at it, there has to be a takeaway that we saw something from this last year that Gase just was not good at. That doesn't mean he isn't a good coach, but we know he isn't that guy that can motivate anyone, reach everyone, and finds a way to put his team in a position to win, regardless of talent. I think its fair to say while he is evaluating the team, there should also be an ongoing effort to evaluate him as well.

While it is unfair to expect the impossible, at least some measure of blame has to find its way to Gase. Its clear it was more then just a few guys that didn't buy into the program. An attempt to change culture means that it was more negative then good in that locker room, I would have hoped that change should have been a key point in adjustment at the start of the 2nd year.

He gets a pass from me on the actual outcome of the season. I had written it off when Tannehill went down. However, I had hoped to see what type of a leader he was when things didn't go as planned. That was what we got a glimpse of this last year.

I think the mistake he made was thinking cutler could save the day and not taking into account the dynamics of the locker room when you say no to Matt Moore.. that’s the blame I can assess to him..

If Moore got hurt then you get your guys ready to play with whoever and you take the hit for the year.

"djphinfan wrote:

I think the mistake he made was thinking cutler could save the day and not taking into account the dynamics of the locker room when you say no to Matt Moore.. that’s the blame I can assess to him..

If Moore got hurt then you get your guys ready to play with whoever and you take the hit for the year.

Looking back a few months later, it's not hard to see what Gase saw in Cutler. I mean, just in week one when the guy didn't even know the playbook and everyone's name, he's stepping up in the pocket, slipping around and making effortless plays. Not too many QB's around can do that in this league. So I can see why Gase thought he was the best possible answer- Cutler has all the tools to be a Hall of Famer. He just doesn't have the consistency.

At the same time though, Gase also said Moore his starter....and then he was QB2 without a single on-field competition. That's the one thing that really upset me and I'm sure it pissed Matt of something fierce.

Gase knew this team was going nowhere with matt Moore from the prior year. As soon as gase started having to get away from the pa and motion based coverage ids matt Moore showed up ugly.

You put week in week out starter scheme and game plan and qb ask on his plate and he fails.

He found out that cutler mentally checked out of taking contact to make plays in the pocket execution wise when he decided to take the tv gig.

Thus the qb execution was in the toilet. Miami left a ton of plays on the field in 2017 completely due to qb execution.

You can’t check a qb box off by making a proper pre to post snap read the grad carries from there to letting progressions develop and execution of the throw both from a leverage aspect and placement.

And the latter half of that was completely missing with jay cutler.

But Miami couldn’t have asked the qb to do the same things as cutler either play calling wise with matt moore. Much more limited.

Frankly I’m just glad it’s over. On both.

"djphinfan wrote:

I think the mistake he made was thinking cutler could save the day and not taking into account the dynamics of the locker room when you say no to Matt Moore.. that’s the blame I can assess to him..

If Moore got hurt then you get your guys ready to play with whoever and you take the hit for the year.

#SHOCKER, but I still maintain he royally f-d up forcing Cutler on the team when Moore earned the right to at least be given a chance. It's pretty well established how much he's liked in that locker room, not to mention he earned the right.

Dunno what is with this franchise thinking they should bring in dopes like Brady Quinn and Jay Cutler to usurp Moore.

"Hoops wrote:

Gase knew this team was going nowhere with matt Moore from the prior year. As soon as gase started having to get away from the pa and motion based coverage ids matt Moore showed up ugly.

You put week in week out starter scheme and game plan and qb ask on his plate and he fails.

He found out that cutler mentally checked out of taking contact to make plays in the pocket execution wise when he decided to take the tv gig.

Thus the qb execution was in the toilet. Miami left a ton of plays on the field in 2017 completely due to qb execution.

You can’t check a qb box off by making a proper pre to post snap read the grad carries from there to letting progressions develop and execution of the throw both from a leverage aspect and placement.

And the latter half of that was completely missing with jay cutler.

But Miami couldn’t have asked the qb to do the same things as cutler either play calling wise with matt moore. Much more limited.

Frankly I’m just glad it’s over. On both.

Translation: It was a complete waste of time and squandered potential rollover cap space to bring in Cutler. Either way development of the offense was going to be delayed until 2018.

Moore should've been the starter. Anyone with eyeballs knew Cutler wasn't there to stand in the pocket. He was collecting a check and doing everything to prevent getting carried off on a stretcher.

"Hoops wrote:

Gase knew this team was going nowhere with matt Moore from the prior year. As soon as gase started having to get away from the pa and motion based coverage ids matt Moore showed up ugly.

You put week in week out starter scheme and game plan and qb ask on his plate and he fails.

He found out that cutler mentally checked out of taking contact to make plays in the pocket execution wise when he decided to take the tv gig.

Thus the qb execution was in the toilet. Miami left a ton of plays on the field in 2017 completely due to qb execution.

You can’t check a qb box off by making a proper pre to post snap read the grad carries from there to letting progressions develop and execution of the throw both from a leverage aspect and placement.

And the latter half of that was completely missing with jay cutler.

But Miami couldn’t have asked the qb to do the same things as cutler either play calling wise with matt moore. Much more limited.

Frankly I’m just glad it’s over. On both.

Right, it was a pick your poison type situation, but I don’t think the locker room and the dynamics of team chemistry were properly thought out when they didn’t let Moore compete for the job

It was only a waste of time because jay cutler checked out on contact

As in willingness to take it to make plays.

I don’t know how gase could have known that off 2015 in Chicago unless cutler showed it then.

Cutler always relied on that arm to offset poor mechanics and footwork. Once that labrum tore he lost that 40 yard flat footed rope fastball but we still got the same shit mechanics and footwork.

In that regard it was an absolute fail but I can’t knock gase for knowing that team was going nowhere with matt Moore. And looking to another option and given it was August when tanny went down options barring trading for someone elses trash frankly were gonna be very limited.

"Hoops wrote:

It was only a waste of time because jay cutler checked out on contact

As in willingness to take it to make plays.

I don’t know how gase could have known that off 2015 in Chicago unless cutler showed it then.

Cutler always relied on that arm to offset poor mechanics and footwork. Once that labrum tore he lost that 40 yard flat footed rope fastball but we still got the same **** mechanics and footwork.

In that regard it was an absolute fail but I can’t knock gase for knowing that team was going nowhere with matt Moore. And looking to another option and given it was August when tanny went down options barring trading for someone elses trash frankly were gonna be very limited.

So let me get this straight .....

A guy who was ready for TV sportscasting, coming off a major labrum surgery who's very own wife had to convince him to return and play for the Phins ------ wasn't a risk to play too cautiously back there?

I'm sorry, but the front office counting on a guy like that was a panic move and one of the utmost stupidity. This is a guy who's entire career has been marred by concerns regarding effort. Suddenly he'd turn a corner playing relief pitcher at the backend of his career when he was on the way out? In what alternate dimension?

"djphinfan wrote:

Right, it was a pick your poison type situation, but I don’t think the locker room and the dynamics of team chemistry were properly thought out when they didn’t let Moore compete for the job

Gase panicked pure and simple. He also didn't want the possibility of his offense's development taking a seat for a year. That very fact also extends the mindlessness given that they should have replaced Moore a while ago if he wasn't the right fit.

I think it had more to do with limitations of one qb far outweighing the other in terms of qb ask as a play caller and game planner.

You couldn’t run all that empty stuff pre snap with matt Moore and him not screw it up.

He also blew every protection adjustment call or account for the unblocked man by design even at times as in ball must come out immediately.

Bottom line is matt Moore as a starter is a brutal option. Too much limitations.

Thus the proper dubbed matt diminishing returns Moore.

"Ohio Fanatic wrote:

I struggle to label Suh in the same fashion as the other immature players. Suh isn't immature, not a diva either. He's an extraordinary talent, but moreso, I think he sees his talent as a business asset. I don't think he plays for fun. He's competitive and wants to win, but he's in it mainly for the money. I don't have a problem with that.

Don't remember when he started "Brooklyn?"

:D

media guys out here in LA were saying the ''diva'' word when describing suh, citing they can tell, and that he's cancelled two pressers because he doesn't want to share the stage.. the business man is fu##in up his legacy..