Biggest Culprit of Monday's Loss- Some Venting with Facts...

"GridIronKing34 wrote:

I just don't understand how one sack represents a games worth of pressure... or lack thereof.

it doesn't, nor was that the point I was trying to make.....I followed what you quoted with "Stats don't always tell the whole story"

"jetssuck wrote:

can't agree with that.....they looked like conservative FG drives to me.

I think you underestimate just how poorly our defense matches up with Manning and company.....I think when you factor in who he is against who we have, those 27 points seem less remarkable.

Again, not saying the defense shouldn't get blame for their performance, it was scary bad....

But there were other factors as well as to why we could maintain that much of a time advantage and still lose.....I'm sure the staff isn't excited about the fact that we held on to the ball for 3/4 of the game, ran for 240 yds and yet could only put the ball in the end zone twice...

The point is Manning really didn't have that many possessions. When he did he scored in 2-3 minutes or less. If Ginn catches both of those TD passes the Dolphins score 34 points and everyone's raving about the offense.

"Dolfan984 wrote:

The point is Manning really didn't have that many possessions. When he did he scored in 2-3 minutes or less. If Ginn catches both of those TD passes the Dolphins score 34 points and everyone's raving about the offense.

Thanks for reminding me, and its other stats that I left off the original post...

The Colts had 9 Possessions in 14 minutes... they averaged 10 possesions per game last year...

They had 25 plays (74% of total) which were part of their scoring drives...

We did not need our D to be special, we just needed them to be average at best...

"GridIronKing34 wrote:

I just don't understand how one sack represents a games worth of pressure... or lack thereof.

it doesnt lol....i was just defending j-peezy. he makes that sack regardless of peyton laying down or not

I think the problem with our pressure, specifically against Peyton, was that if it was there at all it was generated on the perimeter.
Guys like Peyton need to have pressure in their face, up the middle to get rattled. That was the only thing that seems to get to the great ones.

You hold a team to 14 minutes of possession
YOU WINN...AT LEAST TEAMS IN THE LAST 32 YEARS HAVE WON

BUT NOT US

The defense sucked but...................

I could make a very legitimate argument that the ROOT cause of this loss was the strange desire to do something other than WILDCAT. Why this team chose to do anything else is still at a loss to any argument based on logic. The Colts could not stop it. So the Dolphins did it for them.

1) missed tackles
2) dropping passes
3) sacks

"jetssuck wrote:

Well then I apologize for being so close minded:rolleyes:

Then how do you explain, your refusal to put 99% of the blame for this loss on one the worst defensive performances of all time? All time! How do you justify that, if not because of your dislike of Penny, clouding your judgment?

"Zeke0123 wrote:

Strange part is nobody was running through a breakdown...we had guys chasing on everyplay but counting the sack and 9 incompletions another slide by Manning.... the D had 24 plays in which they needed to make a tackle...7 missed tackles..30% or so missed tackles would have made a highschool coach worry about losing his job...horrendous.

I think you hit on the most important problems, which first and foremost is the missed tackles. I think I counted 4 just on the one touchdown play (the first touchdown of the 2nd half where Brown ran it in). Had we tackled at least as good as a high school team, we'd at least have slowed down those drives, and probably could've even eliminated one of their 3 possessions in the 2nd half.

I also agree with us having to chase down plays. On that last touchdown, everyone seemed to be out of position and Wilson made a terrible angle and should've cut Garcon off. We let way too many plays get behind us instead of keeping everything in front of us and making the tackle! Or better yet, get some pressure, sacks, defend some passes so the completion is not made!

i'm usually pretty hard on Pennington, but this loss can not be put on him. the WRs have to come down with those catches in the EZ ...

the defense is another story ... but with little pressure and no one to cover the middle, that is not a recipe for success over the rest of the season.

i was not too concerned that we lost to ATL ... but this last game should not have been a loss. what is most concerning is that NE, NYJ, and BUF will all be postured to do the same thing against us ... and that is bothersome - with nothing in the cupboard to fix the problem.

Its Ginns fault that he didnt tackle. Hell has he even tackled anyone ever?

I actually blame the loss on the conservative nature of our offense and defense...essentially, what Sparano is comfortable with.

Being conservative gives us so little margin for errors, that we need the other team to make errors in order to win comfortably. Looking at last year and so far this year, it's obvious that we're probably going to see a lot more of this type of ending where we have to make plays or else we lose.

I really wish we'd open up the offense and be more aggressive defensively...may be next year.

"Sam wrote:

I actually blame the loss on the conservative nature of our offense and defense...essentially, what Sparano is comfortable with.

Being conservative gives us so little margin for errors, that we need the other team to make errors in order to win comfortably. Looking at last year and so far this year, it's obvious that we're probably going to see a lot more of this type of ending where we have to make plays or else we lose.

I really wish we'd open up the offense and be more aggressive defensively...may be next year.

Miami had a lot of blitzes on defense. I do not think they were not aggressive on defense.

where is the pressure? we have all these pass rushers but we look so predictable with our Defense.......if our secondary is a weakness then our Front 7 can't be playing like this....why don't we ever look at the steelers, ravens, jets and pick up some of the stuff they do with creating pressure.....its like manning always knew where we are going to bring the pressure......not saying he isn't a great QB and obviously the best at picking up that stuff but I've seen the chargers confuse manning to the point he threw like 6 picks one night....

"Finascious D wrote:

Then how do you explain, your refusal to put 99% of the blame for this loss on one the worst defensive performances of all time? All time! How do you justify that, if not because of your dislike of Penny, clouding your judgment?

Maybe it's the man crush you have on him that's clouding yours......because if you look back thru this thread, you won't find me mentioning Penny ONE TIME.....

I don't think Penny had a bad game actually....in this particular game, he's not someone I would target as the reason we lost.

However, he does make it harder to win games like this, against a high powered offense

"Disnardo wrote:

Thanks for reminding me, and its other stats that I left off the original post...

The Colts had 9 Possessions in 14 minutes... they averaged 10 possesions per game last year...

They had 25 plays (74% of total) which were part of their scoring drives...

We did not need our D to be special, we just needed them to be average at best...

You do realize that stat doesn't help your argument, right?

The fact that Manning had an average night in terms of how many possessions or chances to score?

He just took less time to do it......big plays.

How many are surprised? Did you watch the Atlanta game?...we should have been blown out in that game. Our pass defense is terrible.....we're going to give up a good amount of points this season unless the coaches come up with a plan.....and quickly.

And once again I will state...the defense was bad.......really bad. Just like it was vs Atlanta and will likely be Sunday vs the Chargers. If we want to win games such as these that feature a strong passing attack with the ability to score quickly and often, we will have to stop settling for field goals.

"Zod wrote:

The defense sucked but...................

I could make a very legitimate argument that the ROOT cause of this loss was the strange desire to do something other than WILDCAT. Why this team chose to do anything else is still at a loss to any argument based on logic. The Colts could not stop it. So the Dolphins did it for them.

I'm shocked to see that you're the only person to bring this up.....it was obvious all game long. Out of 84 plays, we ran 12 out of the wildcat....that's ridiculous when it was obvious that the Colts couldn't stop it. Should have been no less than twice that amount.

One of the oldest rules in football........If something is working, you keep doing it until the opposition shows they can stop it.

Given the lack of scoring fire power we have.....this team needs to lean on the wildcat as much as possible.

Dupree,

I understand what you're saying, but when I look at the really good defenses, how they blitz and how effective they are, I don't see ours being of the same kind except on rare occasions. I think we have routine blitzes that seems generic in nature, and not much more.

"jetssuck wrote:

You do realize that stat doesn't help your argument, right?

The fact that Manning had an average night in terms of how many possessions or chances to score?

He just took less time to do it......big plays.

How many are surprised? Did you watch the Atlanta game?...we should have been blown out in that game. Our pass defense is terrible.....we're going to give up a good amount of points this season unless the coaches come up with a plan.....and quickly.

And once again I will state...the defense was bad.......really bad. Just like it was vs Atlanta and will likely be Sunday vs the Chargers. If we want to win games such as these that feature a strong passing attack with the ability to score quickly and often, we will have to stop settling for field goals.

If the defense that showed up against Atlanta showed up against the Colts, Miami wins.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

If the defense that showed up against Atlanta showed up against the Colts, Miami wins.

Right, because we did such an amazing job shutting down their TE that game

If Ryan is a little more accurate, it's a blow out...period

"jetssuck wrote:

Right, because we did such an amazing job shutting down their TE that game

If Ryan is a little more accurate, it's a blow out...period

Ryan was hit a lot during that game. On these magical throws where the wide reciever was wide open Ryan had to move around and got hit.

Hitting quarterbacks hurts accuracy.

"jetssuck wrote:

Maybe it's the man crush you have on him that's clouding yours......because if you look back thru this thread, you won't find me mentioning Penny ONE TIME.....

I don't think Penny had a bad game actually....in this particular game, he's not someone I would target as the reason we lost.

However, he does make it harder to win games like this, against a high powered offense

Unless your opinions change per thread, it doesn't matter that you didn't get out your Penny dislike on this thread. Your stance on him is well documented on these boards. Now to the point, the offense didn't lose us this game, the defense did. We didn't play conservative or for field goals. If one of the big laments is that there were 3 dropped TD passes then there cannot be an argument we played for field goals.

Penny didn't lose us that game, again the defense did. You cannot claim he can't win "that type of game" when there hasn't been a game anything like it, in more or less...ever.

These are simple logical conclusions. Not seeing them, leads one to believe there's a bias.

"jetssuck wrote:

I'm shocked to see that you're the only person to bring this up.....it was obvious all game long. Out of 84 plays, we ran 12 out of the wildcat....that's ridiculous when it was obvious that the Colts couldn't stop it. Should have been no less than twice that amount.

One of the oldest rules in football........If something is working, you keep doing it until the opposition shows they can stop it.

Given the lack of scoring fire power we have.....this team needs to lean on the wildcat as much as possible.

We almost exclusively run out of the wildcat. To say we didn't use it enough is to imply our standard running game wasn't working. The problem with that is, it was working just fine. I cannot understand the complaints about a unit that put up well over 200 yards rushing, produced 23 points, and controlled the clock by a ratio of 3:1.

Unless your opinions change per thread, it doesn't matter that you didn't get out your Penny dislike on this thread

I figured that's what you were about......so I'm just gonna ignore that part so that is doesn't continue to get personal. Once again, I stand by what I said... and I never said the defense wasn't bad, or at fault. I just wasn't surprised that Manning lit them up.

We almost exclusively run out of the wildcat. To say we didn't use it enough is to imply our standard running game wasn't working. The problem with that is, it was working just fine. I cannot understand the complaints about a unit that put up well over 200 yards rushing, produced 23 points, and controlled the clock by a ratio of 3:1.

We ran out of the wildcat 12 times out of 49 rushing plays....hardly exclusive. Those 12 plays accounted for almost half our total rushing yardage. And 23 points isn't a lot......not against Manning, not with this pass defense.

So basically you're saying that it's ok to stop doing something that the other team has no answer for...

"jetssuck wrote:

I figured that's what you were about......so I'm just gonna ignore that part so that is doesn't continue to get personal. Once again, I stand by what I said... and I never said the defense wasn't bad, or at fault. I just wasn't surprised that Manning lit them up.

So if Manning scored 54 points on the defense you would not be surprised?