Black Monday thread

"Vendigo wrote:

I think you nailed Ross' dilemma there. He would really like to retain Philbin, and he would probably like to retain Ireland, too, but unless he plans to play in front of an empty stadium next season, he simply can't do that after yesterday's game. So what do you do now? Blow it all up? Then you'll lose a coach you think very highly of. Fire Ireland and install a new GM with full authority? Then you'll likely end up in the same situation. Fire Ireland and install a GM who agrees to work with Philbin? Then you've got yourself a lame duck HC.

If you genuinely believe that Philbin is the right guy for the job (as Ross obviously does), all your choices are lousy.

This is why BOTH Philbin and Ireland have almost 0 chance of being retained. It's one or the other or both going down.

After this collapse, I'm willing to bet season ticket sales come in at all time lows. The question is by how large of a margin. Retain both of these guys and it's a wide margin.

The last couple of seasons you were at least able to entice people with a new shiny first round rookie QB in 2012, and a developing 2nd year QB with some nice shiny weapons in Wallace, Keller, and fast LBs.

No way we make another large splash on big names in FA. A high profile staff hire will be necessary to capture respectable sales

"MonstBlitz wrote:

I think as fans, the best thing we can hope for is Ross does the right thing and hires a GM with full authority

I'm not sure that's necessarily the right thing, though. If Gus Malzahn, for instance, was available, I'd be perfectly happy to hire him right away and worry about a GM to work with him later. In certain situations, I'd also be perfectly willing to cede final say to the headcoach. Seattle certainly isn't regretting it. I used to be a firm believer in the GM first doctrine, too, but I've softened somewhat. The right people are more important than the right structure.

"Vendigo wrote:

I'm not sure that's necessarily the right thing, though. If Gus Malzahn, for instance, was available, I'd be perfectly happy to hire him right away and worry about a GM to work with him later. In certain situations, I'd also be perfectly willing to cede final say to the headcoach. Seattle certainly isn't regretting it. I used to be a firm believer in the GM first doctrine, too, but I've softened somewhat. The right people are more important than the right structure.

i could not agree more. well said.

Another was Fisher a few on this forum had me wanting him at one time I think he is about as mediocre as they get and haven't seen anything impressive from the Rams.

Glad we struck out on that deal.

"Vendigo wrote:

I'm not sure that's necessarily the right thing, though. If Gus Malzahn, for instance, was available, I'd be perfectly happy to hire him right away and worry about a GM to work with him later. In certain situations, I'd also be perfectly willing to cede final say to the headcoach. Seattle certainly isn't regretting it. I used to be a firm believer in the GM first doctrine, too, but I've softened somewhat. The right people are more important than the right structure.

Agreed. If John Gruden changed his stance on staying out of coaching, would you give him control of personnel?

"Aqua4Ever04 wrote:

This exactly. When you're casting your net for potential new G.M.s, the world is your oysterm so to speak. You can reach out to anyone. But when you tell all those prospective GMs that they have to accept the job with a head coach already in position, you shrink that net you've casted almost tenfold.

No top GM candidate will want to take a job with a head coach already in place. It doesn't work that way.

Why does the GM have to be involved in the coach selection? Why can't the coach play a role in the hiring of a GM? If Ross truly feels that he's found the right guy in Philbin to lead this team on the field, then Philbin can absolutely play an integral role in the hiring of a GM that shares his same philosophy in constructing a winning football team.

Personally, I don't feel like Philbin has done enough (in light of the offensive struggles) to warrant the kind of trust outlined above, but if Ross feels strongly about Joe, a scenario similar to the one noted above can absolutely go down.

Call me crazy, but I think there would be worse things than this franchise firing Joe Philbin and hiring Lovie Smith.

"xphinfanx wrote:

Wondering if rumors of Big Ben wanting to leave will become of anything also. Could get interesting fast if he did.

The Steelers dont fire their coaches. They have has 3....Knoll...Cowher..and Tomlin. They will stick with Tomlin until they get back to the Super Bowl, and with Tomlin, they will.

"rdhstlr23 wrote:

Call me crazy, but I think there would be worse things than this franchise firing Joe Philbin and hiring Lovie Smith.

Lovie is going to be Bucs HC I think

"Rocky Raccoon wrote:

I think Philbin should stay. He's only been a head coach for 2 years. You made a commitment to him so you should give him the chance to prove himself. He knows he needs to improve. He's a smart man, and I believe he's a guy that will "get it" if you give him a little time.

Yeah, I like Philbin, so far. Seems like a good guy. I contribute a lot of our problems to the coaching staff under him and even some to the GM. I think he needs more time here.

Sherman and Turner should be fired as well. I understand why they were brought in, but simply put, it hasn't worked out.

I was under the impression that Philbin and Sherman were buddies and was wondering if you could even ask Philbin to fire Sherman. I honestly don't know, which is why I'm asking in here.

I think Sherman's done a horrible job with our offense, in general, and particularly with Tannehill's skill-set. He's shown no signs of half-time changes that would have been obvious moves to many of us couch coaches and lifelong fans, and let's be honest here, he needs to go back to coaching a college offense because he can't handle the NFL.

I think Ireland should absolutely be fired. 6 years of mediocrity is not good enough. He's also embarrassed us enough beyond trying to build a winning team. I don't have any ill will towards him. I know he's got a rough life at home, and I wish him the best, but it's time to move on from him.

This has been said every off-season for 5 years now, and I agreed with it then, and agree with it now. As far as him moving on, I gave up on that wish. I'll believe it when I see it.

"Aqua4Ever04 wrote:

This exactly. When you're casting your net for potential new G.M.s, the world is your oysterm so to speak. You can reach out to anyone. But when you tell all those prospective GMs that they have to accept the job with a head coach already in position, you shrink that net you've casted almost tenfold.

No top GM candidate will want to take a job with a head coach already in place. It doesn't work that way.

Don't necessarily agree. Only 32 jobs available in totality, and who is to say when the "right" chance will come along if you keep passing up opportunities

"MonstBlitz wrote:

If John Gruden changed his stance on staying out of coaching, would you give him control of personnel?

I've always liked Gruden, but I would be very hesitant to grant him final say. He was never one to develop players, and that, to me, betrays a certain inability to recognize raw talent. I would absolutely hire him in combination with a strong, like-minded GM, but I wouldn't cede final control to him. With the usual exception of Bill Belichik almost every successful GM/HC has had a background in talent evaluation (recruiting).

"Rick 1966 wrote:

Somehow five other teams managed the first part of it. Is Ross less competent than those other owners?

You even need to ask?

"Phinatic74 wrote:

It turns out we were right and you were wrong. Nothing personal but you need to take a timeout maybe until April or May whenever the draft is this year. Jeff scuttled this team and it didn't meet it's expectations and people want him gone. Defend him if you want but maybe on your own time, cause in the end, the firelanders were right and those who are still defending him are wrong.

"schmolioot wrote:

How is that possible?

Wanny resigned. Bates was interim coach. Saban resigned. Cameron and Sparano were fired and both deservingly.

I thought Sparano resigned too?

"Stitches wrote:

Don't necessarily agree. Only 32 jobs available in totality, and who is to say when the "right" chance will come along if you keep passing up opportunities

If the team doesn't perform as hoped ala Miami the GM always has that he never selected his guy .

Hopefully that out for Ireland has been used and won't be again.

"rdhstlr23 wrote:

Call me crazy, but I think there would be worse things than this franchise firing Joe Philbin and hiring Lovie Smith.

Some team is going to hire him this off season. I'd be fine if it were Miami.

"GMJohnson wrote:

Gues you are happy with a .500, playoff choking, no heart football team.
Good for you.

"vt_dolfan wrote:

The Steelers dont fire their coaches. They have has 3....Knoll...Cowher..and Tomlin. They will stick with Tomlin until they get back to the Super Bowl, and with Tomlin, they will.

The Steelers used to fire coaches fairly regularly before they got it right with Chuck Noll.

"GMJohnson wrote:

We love our Jeffy, don't we?

"Boik14 wrote:

Detroits head coach Jim Schwartz is meeting with ownership now.

who's ownership ? hell only Miami would do something like that.

"PSG wrote:

Gues you are happy with a .500, playoff choking, no heart football team.
Good for you.

Why, because I'm not screaming for someone to be fired?

OK, OK, OK, you win. I demand that Ken Okeefe and Dave Puloka be fired. How can so many guys at one position get hurt? If Ross doesn't do something about this I am done with this team!!!

There. Happy now?

"MrClean wrote:

We love our Jeffy, don't we?

Ireland is still the GM. He's already been extended for next season. But.

The Firelanders were right...

You gotta admit that's pretty funny.

"GMJohnson wrote:

Why, because I'm not screaming for someone to be fired?

OK, OK, OK, you win. I demand that Ken Okeefe and Dave Puloka be fired. How can so many guys at one position get hurt? If Ross doesn't do something about this I am done with this team!!!

There. Happy now?

No. Because the real problem will still be driving this franchise into the ground.

How many years does Jeff Ireland get before we go "maybe he is the problem"