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Calorie Deficit is King – A simple guide to cutting fat

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Clark Kent, Jun 9, 2012.

  1. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Here is the simplest guide to fatloss you’ve ever read. It’s free too!

    1. Restrict Calories - Calorie Deficit
    ***Eat at least 1g of protein per pound of lean body mass
    ***Eat .45g of fat per pound of body weight *If very overweight, per pound of lean body mass
    ***Fill the rest of the caloric deficit with whatever you want (carbs, fats, protein, etc...)

    2. Resistance/Strength training 3x per week (full body)

    Here is a Calorie Requirement Calculator to help step 1. Done and done. That’s pretty much the fundamentals of solid cutting. If you're going to cut/diet, the best one if the one that you can stick with. I could end this thread now. And if you feel confident enough that you understand these basic rules without further explanation you can save yourself the time of reading further.



    -Calorie Deficit is King –​


    Daily expenditure of energy (calories) has to be greater than the intake of energy (calories) for fatloss to occur. To simplify this concept further, eat less/move more and you'll lose weight. This is scientific fact. As Lyle McDonald explains in his article about the energy balance equation,
    The only way to lose fat is by creating a caloric deficit. Creating a caloric deficit can happen happen in three ways.
    1. Eat Less calories than your body's requires
    2. Exercise more to increase energy output and raise daily energy requirements
    3. Both

    Fact.

    - So Is A Calorie a Calorie? -​

    The short answer is yes. The long answer is, pretty much yes, but it requires an explanation... There are four macro nutrients which all posses energy (calories). These four Alcohol, Protein, Fat, and Carbohydrates. Each has a different value of calories per gram.

    1g Alcohol = 1g = 7 calories
    1g Protein = 1g = 4 calories
    1g Fat = 9 calories
    1g Carbs = 4 calories

    However, there is a discrepancy between listed values and real values, which is explained the Thermic Effect of Food (TEF). For example, protein is listed as 4 calories per gram. This is true. However, in order for your body to digest protein (hardest to digest of all macros) your body must work harder (energy output) and therefore it's real value is considered to be more like 3.2 calories. Same for alcohol. Alcohol is 7.1 calories per gram, but because of TEF, it's really about 5.2. There are some negative calorie foods like ice water (body must warm itself) and celery for example. However, for the purposes of dieting, use the standard values.

    Each macronutrient offers something different. Here is some text on Macros. I'll just do my own explanation of things otherwise. Alcohol will not be covered. If you want to learn about alcohol and it's relationship to health and fat loss, go HERE. Martin Berkhan's thoughts on the subject are considered the standard by nutritional experts.


    Protein- Is King of macros. The word is derived from greek, meaning the first, which is where it ranks on the hierarchy of macronutrients. I don't want to sit here and describe all the benefits of protein, as it would take a while. It's your muscles primary source of fuel, provides the most satiety (feeling full), and just generally kicks *** all over the place. You need at least 1g per lean body mass as this will provide the minimum grams of protein needed to repair muscle. Some nutritionalists say 1.2-1.5 is best, esspecially if lifting (which you should be, we'll get to that). More protein is always a great idea.

    Lyle McDonald has some interesting thoughts on why studies that show "calorie is NOT a calorie" (basically, people who think carbs are bad) are misleading. Read Me.
    Eat.Your.Protein.


    Carbs - The devil himself. The most hated macronutrient the world has ever known (or at least since that idiot Dr. Atkins made a book). If you want to lose weight, you MUST AVOID CARBS BECAUSE THEY MAKE YOU FAT! AT THE VERY LEAST, STOP YOU FROM LOSING FAT!


    Read THIS to see the carbs are evil myth get destroyed. Martin Berkhan also debunks some carb myths. I can go on if further proof is needed. EDIT: One more for road

    Carbs are awesome. They're delicious. They provide energy, both short term and long term (in the form of glycogen). Carbs are really important (IMO) when weightlifting because lifting really burns out your muscle glycogen. A lot of people frequently report that low carb diets (all KETO basically) make them lose strength in the gym and ultimately muscle. This because if you lack energy, you will not lift your heaviest. You need the snap energy. Our goal is to maximize fat loss, not just weight loss. We're not 15 year old girls here (and if you're, you should still cut and follow this guide, rather than "diet". Thank me later).

    Carbs are also important from a hormone standpoint. If you read the article just above, you already why to some extent. However, other hormones are screwy without carbs. Namely your neurotransmitter serotonin. Serotonin is the feel good hormone. Serotonin and carb connection. If you can't stick to a diet, what good is it? It's a huge reason why dieters fail. In fact, hormonal **** ups from lack of protein, carbs, fat, or all of the above are why people fail most of the time. Maybe you don't need carbs. Maybe you haven't eaten more than 50g of carbs in a day in 5 years. Cool. You don't HAVE to have carbs to survive. It doesn't mean their bad or worthless.

    And no... There's NO such thing as good carbs or bad carbs.

    Ice cream or an apple? If you can fit it in to your calories and macros, who gives a ****? Whatever makes you happier.

    Fats - Hormones, hormones, hormones. To start, dietary fat does not equal body fat. Too many calories equal body fat. Eat some fat. Saturated fat especially. When dieting hormone production drops (depending on the size of the deficit) some. Don't exacerbate the problem. EAT FAT. Try and avoid trans fat, as that is the only fat that is bad. Will a little hurt weight loss? Not at all... It might actually help as it clogs your arteries and makes your heart beat more. Just kidding... Not really. Maybe? Probably. It kind of puts a damper on the whole "healthy" thing. 2-3 grams a day isn't going to do very much harm to you. Keep the TF number in mind, but don't be all weird about it.


    Now, someone might be saying, I'm not at either extreme (obese or rail thin)... But I can't eat X, Y, or Z because A, B, or C. At one point, someone on this board actual told me that deficits don't work because we're all different. Lyle disagrees...
    I can't find my Martin Berkhan interview (I'm looking for it), where he points out a study that shows people are pretty normal despite their perceptions they're bad with certain macros (carbs specifically). It's pretty much bunk. Most people are good to go and are just so wrapped up in concepts repeatedly discussed ad nauseum, it has become truth. Are some people more sensitive to certain things? Yeah, I imagine to some degree. But it doesn't mean you have to or even should cut out any macros. Extremism doesn't correlate to success long term. And it's proven not be anymore efficient.

    If It Fits Your Macros - Everything in moderation


    The concepts of the diet that I outlined at the start is best described by the diet known as If It Fits Your Macros (IIFYM). For example. Let's say someone is eating 2,000 calories per day to create a calorie deficit or their choosing. They have 150lbs of lean body mass. This means they must eat (at minimum) 150g of protein (4 calories * 150g protein = 600 protein calories). They also must/should (I say must because fat content depends on body fat) eat .45g of fat per LBM (45g fat * 150lbs LBM = 67.5g fat, which is 607 fat calories). Now this person has a lot of room to play with... 1200 calories (150g protein, 67g fat) are allotted to the minimum daily requirements. 800 calories are left over. These 800 calories can be spent on ANY macro. Want more protein? Eat some more. As I said, more is better. Want more fat? That's OK too... Want some tasty carbs? Go for it. As long as you reach your minimum requirements, the rest is up to you.

    So does this mean I'm telling you that you can spend your 2,000 allotted calories per day on ANY food as long as you meet your macro's and don't exceed your caloric limit (exceeding your calories per day isn't the end of the world if you're usually diligent, FYI)? YES. Can you eat cake everyday if you wanted to? Yes. Can you eat fast food everyday if you wanted to? Yes. Can you eat "healthy" foods everyday if you wanted to? Yes. It's up to you. What if I eat too little fat one day, is it the end of the world? No. What if I eat too little protein? Try and be consistent and hit your protein goals or suffer the consequences. One or two days will not kill you.

    Read Me

    This guy took Layne to heart, I guess... He ate "unhealthy" twinkies. Guess what? Body fat dropped from 33.4 (clinically obese) to 24 (close to normal). His bad colesteral dropped, good colesteral raised, and tricglicerides were down almost half. How? He ate a deficit... Calories make you fat and unhealthy, not "unhealthy" food. Healthy or healthy is a matter of perception. Google the cookie diet and tacobell drive thru diet. Same concepts... Foods that appear "bad" but when eaten in a caloric deficit, suddenly can be good for you. Just like eating "healthy" foods can make you fat and unhealthy if eaten in a caloric surplus.
    Calorie Deficit IS KING for fatloss! Before you do ANY diet, get your calories in check!



    How do I create my calorie deficit?


    This Total Daily Energy Expenditure calculator is my favorite calculator. I find it to be very accurate. If you know your body fat %, use that instead of height. If not (which you probably don't as BF% measurement is tough to do), just type in height. When filling out the exercise info, try and figure out general energy output per day (averages!!!). Try and be modest, it's for the best. Make adjustments as you go"]Again, we'll have to adjust as we go along anyway so it's not life or death that we're accurate in the first 2 weeks. After you get your number of calories spent per day (on average) we need to do some simple math.

    In order to lose 1 lb of fat you need to create a 3500 calorie deficit. In order to lose 1lb of muscle, you need only a 600 calorie deficit. In order to lose 50% muscle and 50% fat, a 2000 calorie deficit is required. This is why protein is so important (and weightlifting!) If you're really fat, you can afford a larger deficit. However, all things being equal 1000 calories per day deficit is about as far as you want to go. It will be easier to adhere to long term and the odds of muscle loss are slim (assuming you even have a lot of muscle). 1000 cals per day is 7000 cals per week, divide by 3500 is 2. 2lbs per week. Assuming protein intake is adequate and you're lifting weights, most, if not all weight loss, should be fat. As Lyle points out, inessential lean body mass will likely be lost too. No big deal. It's the essential LBM we want spared. There are two rules of thumbs as far as deficits go. 1). If you can't sustain the deficit (cravings for food become overbearing) add calories. 2). If you're suffering from strength loss in the gym, add calories. Also be warned, if your deficit is too large, it can hinder fat loss. I've experienced that myself.

    Your TDEE - X calories cut (Caloric Deficit) = Max cals per day.



    Counting calories and Macros
    -

    You must count calories and/or macros. This is NECESSARY. Without knowing your calorie count for the day, you risk sporadic weight loss, no weight loss, and/or weight gain. As Lyle explains
    Measure twice, cut once, no excuses. If you want something badly enough you’ll do what it takes. If not, best of luck to you and your fitness goals of 2012 and beyond.

    How to count –

    1. Get measuring tools -This includes food scale (that weighs ounces at least, but one that does grams is nice too), measuring cup, and measuring spoons. To be clear, not all food has to be measured. If there is a nutrition label and the servings of XYZ food are separated already, your good. Drinking a can of soda? Calories are added up for you. If you’re eating chicken, knowing how many oz is imperative.

    2. Get an app - I use MyFitnessPal with my droid x. I like MFP because it adds up cals/macros, has a huge database, adding food is simple and quick, very easy to navigate, and a barcode scanner. That is a unique feature that I love. No other app has that to the best of my knowledge. If you're technology illiterate, pen and notebook work too...

    You can eat and track on the fly or plan ahead. Whatever works for you.

    - Exercise -

    Did I mention that cardio isn't necessary for fatloss? Good news then, because it isn't. As I said before, weight loss (fat loss) is about creating a caloric deficit. If you eat 1000 calories less than you require, it is no different than eating 500 calories less and also using 500 calories worth of energy for cardio. 1000=1000.
    There are some benefits for cardio though, one of which is being able to eat more since you’re burning more calories. However, be careful. Overtraining can hurt your weightlifting.

    You use your leg muscles more than any other and if you’re constantly running and training them, it’s going to be hard to recover for your next workout. You already have a caloric deficit, recovery is hard enough.
    . Walking is probably best. Do it when you can or want.

    Strength based resistance training – This is where the meat and potatoes are. You should lift. Why ?
    1. Losing muscle slows down metabolism because muscle requires energy to be sustained.
    2. You can gain some muscle (n00b gains or muscle memory) which helps metabolism.
    3. You’ll look more aesthetically pleasing. Skinny fat sucks.
    4. Psychologically feeling awesome

    Pretty straight forward… I can really relate to #4. When I first started lifting seriously and consistently (redundant?) I never felt so good. Adding weight to the bar is awesome. I love the measuring stick it provides. Also, the testosterone boost creates a great feeling. It’s hard to describe. It’s also kind of addicting tbh. I’ve walked in the gym feeling depressed or blah, and left king of the world. Nothing beats it. Get a gym membership. Worth every penny.

    So what workouts do you need to do? Strength based workouts. 3 sets, 5 reps per set, and 3 min-5 min rest. I’ll find the article later, but that has shown to be the magic numbers for maximum testosterone production.

    What lifts? Compound lifts. CL are lifts that require the use of multiple muscles. No machines or dumbbells. If you’re new to lifting, get your strength in order and learn to lift properly to start (barbells only).

    Bench Press, Standing Shoulder Press, Lat pulldowns, barbell rows, Squats and Deadlifts are the best 6 compound lifts to start with. Don’t pass over squats or deads either… They suck. But they’re King and Queen for a reason.

    Here is a good place to start and find a good workout regime. If you're new, don't jump in and start your own routine. Better to do right by listening to the vets.



    Myths and outright lies
    1. Eating X number of meals makes your metabolism fast! - Alan Aragon's response here. and also here.
    or
    2. Skipping Breakfast hurts weightloss! - Nope.
    3. Your Body can only absorb X amount of protein at a time! - Still not true...
    4. Don't eat food (or carbs specifically) after 8pm/9pm/10pm/etc...! - Lies!
    5. Eat "clean" or "healthy" food to lose weight! - Still not true...
    6. Calories don't matter! - Uhh what?
    7. The Paleolithic Diet is Superior for Health! - Added this one for a special someone... you know who you're


    I’ll try and hang around and edit/add in the future. I kinda rushed my end a bit. This took a minute and was kind of a pain. I have a ton more articles and **** I can add. I will definitely put up some websites of interest and things like that. Also a myth section as there is some much crap people believe that has been disproved over and over (like 6 meals a day stokes the metabolism!).
     
  2. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    So I am wasting my time eating 6 times a day? lol. Also if I can eat Taco Bell and lose weight sign me up haha.

    EDIT: I only skimmed this and saw that at the end. I plan on thoroughly reading it after the Heat win tonight.
     
  3. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You Club Member

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    That time you spend eating 6 times a day will be spent on the toilet if you eat Taco Bell every day. :tongue2:
     
  4. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    You could also replace your meals with straight up cocaine.


    Cocaine is 100% proven to shed pounds.
     
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  5. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    worth it.
     
  6. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    I'd do that, but I don't like the smell of cocaine.
     
  7. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    For real lol. I just wasted so much time writing that ****...
     
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  8. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Suck it up fatty, you lose your olfactory senses after a while.
     
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  9. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Thank you so much for this post! I just spent time reading through it and actually feel like I learned a lot. I do have two questions though:
    1.) "1000 calories per day deficit is about as far as you want to go... Also be warned, if your deficit is too large, it can hinder fat loss. I've experienced that myself."
    You can actually lose less weight if your deficit is too large?!? That is crazy! Is that because your body goes into starvation mode and tries to save everything as fat?


    1. Restrict Calories - Calorie Deficit
    ***Eat at least 1g of protein per pound of lean body mass
    ***Eat .45g of fat per pound of body weight *If very overweight, per pound of lean body mass
    ***Fill the rest of the caloric deficit with whatever you want (carbs, fats, protein, etc...)

    2. Resistance/Strength training 3x per week (full body)

    How would we calculate our lean body mass without being weighed underwater or with a scale that shows % body fat? I am just wondering if there is a way to figure that out. Also if I cannot strength train (due to not being part of a gym, etc) how badly will that effect me? I have been riding my bicycle about 6 miles per day the last couple days.

    If I am about 5'8 and weight 218 what would you recommend for me to eat in terms of protein, calories, and fat? I would probably want to lose weight as fast as possible so I would like to try to have a caloric deficit of 1000 like you mentioned. If you have a set break down of food I should eat each day I would be wide open to following it very closely.

    Thank you very much! And hell I am so motivated right now I might post pictures of myself tomorrow along with my weight and height in order to document my wight loss!

    You rock Superman!!! errrr Clark Kent!

    EDIT: Now I see why you said Muscle Milk is a good way to loss weight, it has low calories and high protein.
     
  10. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

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    dead on. the one that clinched it for me was the twinkie diet by Prof in TN. He ate really crappy food every day, mostly twinkies, had some healthy shakes and took his vitamins. didn't only normal amount of exercise. he did this over a period of time, making sure he had a caloric deficit. lost a good amount of weight.

    [EDIT] hah, didn't see you already had this at the end of your post.
     
  11. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    I'm going to PM after I'm done with this post.


    1. You're a big dude, probably lots of body fat and very little essential lean body mass (muscle). You'll be just fine with a larger deficit. It's when you start to get learner (15% or so) when big deficits can be an issue. Starvation mode is a myth as well. It came about because of a very flawed Minnesota study that has been debunked since. Like most other myths, "starvation mode" has been spoken of frequently it's become true. It's not. I'll add that to the myth list with sources. Totally forgot about that one.

    Most people who're overweight get huge surges in motivation. They go on crazy crash diets and don't get enough macros and start exercising like a freak. Terrible combination as it stresses the body (cortisol like a mother****er). When the body is very stressed, it stops fatloss to protect itself. I'll break your macros down for you to avoid that. This article deals with setting appropriate deficits and this one deals with the stress of large deficits and tons of exercise.

    At 5'8, 218lbs, I imagine you don't have a ton of muscle mass. If I'm wrong, add more protein to my listings.

    Macro minimums *NOTE* If you're riding your bike 6miles per day (how old are you? if under 18, eat more) than you're going to need carbs or risk burnout

    Protein - 150g (600 calories). 150 is pretty good number for beginners, which is why I used it in my example. More is always fine and maybe preferable.
    Fat - 60g (540 calories) - If you feel some brain fog, add more (10g). Rinse and repeat if needed.
    Carbs - 200g (800 calories)

    Total Cals - 1940 (1950 or 1900 is fine).


    If you're not losing at least 2lbs per week (give it 2-3 weeks to let water/glycogen fluctuate down, your numbers will be deceiving week 1 and maybe even 2) then subtract 100 calories. Anytime you subtract calories, never subtract from fats or protein! Carbs can and will be adjusted anytime you want. Eat too much fat? You're going to have to eat less carbs. Too much protein? Subtract from carbs. Too much fat and protein today? Subtract from carbs. Obviously consistency is best, but carbs are flexible. As you get learner your body burns less energy, so you'll end up having to lower cals to induce the same weight loss. You at 218lbs will not need as much energy for you at 200lbs.


    2. Body fat is hard to measure, period. The best way to do it is with pictures and have other people in the know tell you. Most people your size are 30%+ bodyfat. If you have a bunch of muscle mass (people overestimate that usually, myself included) then you'll be less.


    Just remember, calorie deficits are based on the idea you can sustain it. Same for exercise. More is less if you can't stick to it. Don't do something you can stick to. It sucks to hear and it's tougher to accept. You get motivated and want to be done by the end of the month. It's not going to happen. I wish just accepted that a long time ago when I was heavy. It's truly a day by day thing. Good news is, when you do it the right way, it's ****ing easy mode. good luck.
     
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  12. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    It's great right? I'm a member of bodybuilding.com. If you want, I can dig up some food logs (with before and after photos) of people cutting/dieting on fast food only, ice cream, etc... They got their required protein and hit their calorie intakes. I'm talking fat people too, not bodybuilders (as the site suggests, it's community is made of normal people).

    When you know the rules, diets don't have to be mind numbing and terrible. It's only when we apply complicated bull**** do they really become challenging.
     
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  13. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    UCF - PM's are full. Can't send one.

    Also, I forgot to mention your problem with weights. Search your area for gym membership prices. I'm in CT and I only pay 10 per month. If you can't (and I mean can't, not unwilling) then do the best you can with body resistance work. This includes pushups (even if you have to start on your knees), standing squats, etc... Google would probably help you find more.
     
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  14. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Sorry about that, I just cleared them out.
     
  15. finsincebirth

    finsincebirth Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    UCF if you're looking for a gym in the area check out Planet Fitness. 10 a month.
     
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  16. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Thanks for your post!

    I am 23 years old. I just took pictures of myself and tried to post them here, but I keep getting an error message. If you want to PM me your email address I could send them there just so you can have a general idea of my body composition. While I weight a lot, most of my weight is in my thigh muscles and calves (I have a really thick base). Most people guess my weight around 200ish. It would probably just be easier for me to send the pics to you though.

    In terms of motivation, I am 100% devoted to this. Whatever I have to do I will do without hesitation. I plan on devoting at least the next 10 weeks to this diet/workout regime. I don't know if you want to play physical trainer with me, in terms of telling me what workouts to do, what to eat everyday, etc. but I would follow it to a T. I can post my results every week (or day if that's better) along with a picture just to keep track of how things are going if you would like.

    Tomorrow I plan on going to Publix to weight in on one of their scales. I will wear the same outfit and shoes every week when I weigh in to keep everything consistent. I am going to search around for some cheap gyms that I could become a member at to workout there. If I find a cheap gym you can tell me what workouts to follow or do everyday as well.

    The one thing I don't understand about that formula is how to score certain items: Let me use Muscle Milk for instance
    Calories - 180
    Total Fat - 7g
    Total Carbohydrates - 10g
    Protein - 20 g

    How would you score this? I guess I am confused if overall it would count as just 180 calories or if we are supposed to factor in the Total fat (where 60g = 540 calories), Carbs (where 200g = 800 calories), and protein (where 150g = 600 calories). So would the Muscle Milk count as 180 calories (out of the 1900 limit), or would it count as 363 calories(180 calories + Fat calories 63 + Carb calories 40 + Protein calories 80)?

    Honestly, it probably would be easier if you just planned out what I could eat everyday lol. Even if I eat the same thing everyday like this:
    8:00am- Banana
    10:00am- 1/2 cliff bar
    12:00pm- 1/2 sandwich (wheat bread with turkey and cheese)
    2:00pm- 1/2 sandwich (wheat bread with turkey and cheese)
    4:00pm- apple
    6:00pm- cliff bar
    8:00pm- Chicken Breast and salad with dressing
    10:00pm- frozen low carb yogurt eaten like ice cream

    Thank you again for all your help. It really means a lot to me.
     
  17. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    No problem. If you get a gym membership, weigh yourself everyday. Only pick one day as "official." but it doesn't hurt to track at all times. I've jumped on the scale and weighed 10lbs more than the day before. Weighed 12lbs less the next day (this isn't common but it happens). Water and glycogen storage and shifting can goof up numbers. The more data the better.

    Weight training on a deficit is pretty simple. Goal is to add whatever LBM you can/maintain what you have. If you've never lifted than you'll add some. My routine is simple (In a cal deficit so I don't want to go nuts). I forgot to mention lifting on non consecutive days. I do..

    Sunday: Bench 3x5, Lat Pulldown 3x5, Barbell rows 3x5, Standing Shoulder Press 3x5, Squats 3x5.

    Tuesday: Bench 3x5, Lat Pulldown 3x5, Barbell rows 3x5, Standing Shoulder Press 3x5 (No legwork)

    Thursday: Bench 3x5, Lat Pulldown 3x5, Barbell rows 3x5, Standing Shoulder Press 3x5, Deadlift 3x5

    It's a simple, full body workout, 3x a week. I don't do legs on the middle day because Squating and Deadlifting are harsh on the lower body and I want some recovery. Be ready to barely be able to sit down or stand up for a few weeks until you get adapted. It's a good feeling in a twisted way lol.


    As far as muscle milk goes...

    Calories - 180
    Total Fat - 7g
    Total Carbohydrates - 10g
    Protein - 20 g

    There are 4 calories in 1 gram of protein and carbs. There are 9 calories in 1 gram of fat. These numbers make up the total calories.

    Muscle Milk contains 180 calories. 7g of fat * 9 calories per gram = 63 calories. 20g of protein * 4 = 80 calories. 10g of carbs * 4 = 40 calories. 63+80+40= 183 calories. They obviously rounded down to 180. No big deal. See how that works? Calories are just derived from macronutrients.

    Do you have a smartphone? If so, get myfitnesspal app. It's free and it's boss. If not, sign up to myfitnesspal's website and they'll track it all for you. Or excel spreadsheet and plan everyday ahead of time. Give it two weeks and you'll get comfortable with counting. It seems over whelming at first but it's pretty easy. Soon, you'll know the values in your head. As a matter of fact, forget fats and carbs for now. Focus on your caloric goal of 1900 and make sure you hit at least 150g protein. That's it, only pay attention to those two numbers for now... Get comfortable with that and then start focusing on fats and carbs later.

    Here are 2 strategies I use regularly to hit my goals:

    * No liquid cals (I want whole food to feel somewhat full). Not a rule, just preference (I sometimes break it). I drink black coffee, water, diet soda all the time. *Your drink isn't bad. Maybe switch to whey protein? Probably cheaper cost wise. Body Fortress (PB and chocolate is pretty ****ing good) is like 15 bucks. 1 scoop a day is 28g protein for 30 days worth.

    * Load up on protein right away. Protein = King. I want to hit my goal, no exceptions. Eat heavy protein meals until night so I have free reign to pound fat/carbs to fill rest of deficit. Beef, dairy, fish, poultry, etc... What's your food budget look like? If you're on a budget, chicken, eggs, and tuna are good sources (although I hate Tuna, so I don't **** with that). For example, I eat chicken almost every day. Almost no fat, no carbs, and tons of protein. I eat Perdue skinless breast. Every 3oz (cooked) is 1g f, 0g c, 26g protein. 9oz (with 0 cal franks red hot) is 3g fat, 0g carbs, and 78g protein. Over 1/2 my protein goal in one sitting. Very filling too.
     
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  18. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    I am on my fitness pal on my iPhone. Based on my height/weight (6' 225) they got me at 1800 calories a day. I work out like 3/4 times a week. Doing a light jog (about 2/4 mile or so depending on my joints) I have pain in knees and ankles thanks to football.

    If you hadn't seen on here in the past I used to be real big. 293 at my worst. I got all the way down to 206 as recent as about 9 months ago. I put on some pounds as I stopped working out as hard as I was (it was getting crazy) and I obviously leveled out.

    I really like the idea of getting 150g of protein a day and my 1800 calories. Based on my workouts consisting of dumbbell work like flys, curls, squats, shoulders, snatches. And basic calisthenics like 6 inches, crunches, planks, supermans etc. do you think I'll lose weir sticking to that formula? I eat a lot of grilled chicken, salads, beef.

    I am trying to understand this in simple terms: if I eat whatever, as long as I hit 150g of protein and only 1800 calories, with full body workouts I should continue losing?

    What's your thoughts on "cheat" days for shocking the body? I've heard those myths and never known if they were true or bull****.

    I lost a ton of weight to get where I am now, I have a good amount of muscle mass from my football lifting days, I have always been a big thick dude, so my weight at 220-225 looks normal for me. So my trouble is getting passed this number and getting into a healthy 185-195 range.

    I am good with crunching the numbers and ****. So for my weight, decent athletic background and history, would you say 1800 cal 150g protein? Also what would you suggest for daily carb intake? Thanks man.
     
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  19. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Just downloaded the Myfitnesspal app. :up:

    Great points about liquid calories! I might buy some diet soda just for when I am really craving some soda. I am definitely going to try to buy some Body Fortress ($15 bucks over a month is way cheaper than Muscle Milk).

    Chicken is so damn good! I could eat it everyday! So is Tuna and dairy. I am ready to roll with this! I think I am going to start my own thread on here and post what I eat and do everyday. I can't wait to see how this works out long term!
     
  20. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    I would think 1800 might be a bit low for someone your size. How many lbs do they have you dropping per week? If you can sustain 1800, cool. If not, feel free to add a few hundred. I'm smaller than you height and weight (5'10, 180) and I cut at 2000 calories. I also have a job that requires me to move a bit though, so maybe that's a big difference. Which is why I don't care for MFP in terms of their calorie calculator. If you like crunching numbers, go here and check out the formulas for determining cals per day and macros.

    Also, don't jog. If your joints are bad, walking is fine. Don't take one step back by hurting yourself.

    Just remember, anything not sustainable is a bad idea. If your workouts are punishing you to the point where you say "**** it", you're pushing too hard or your diet is bad (not enough cals). I read briefly the keto diet thread, is that the one you did? I think I saw your name mentioned.

    One problem with keto and being active is energy levels. Keto is good for people who don't move a lot because they don't really need carbs for energy. The problem is when you become active. When you're active, your muscle glycogen (stored glucose from carbs in the muscles, which acts as quick acting energy) depletes making fat the only source of energy. Fat does not process quickly enough for things like jogging (even if light) and weight lifting. In fact, Keto is considered to be pretty trash by most people who lift/do cardio. That could be a reason for burnout.


    150g protein is a good number for a n00b with little or no LBM. You've played football, so I imagine you're not the beginner I was when I started. You've probably got some decent muscle under the fat. Macros (fats and protein specifically) have to be tailored to the individual. If you went over to the thread I linked, you'll read all about it. I would start at 170g protein for you.

    I would also try and think about changing the workout a bit. By adding in compound lifts. The goal when lifting on a deficit is to hit every muscle. Too much volume and frequency (sets and reps) are bad on a deficit. So doing compounds is kind of the best alternative. For example, I see you doing curls, which work biceps. By benching, shoulder pressing, lat pulldowns, etc.. you'll get plenty of bicep work. Starting Strength may be a great place to start.

    As long as you reach your protein goals (whatever it may be, you'll need to decide if 150g per day is right for you), you can fill the rest of your calories up with whatever you like (odds are you'll get enough fat).

    I'm cutting at 2000 cals. my Macros: 150g protein, 67g fat, 200 carbs. I make sure I hit my protein everyday and I eat like ****. I eat cheesecake, mcdonalds, tacobell, cookies, brownies, ice cream, pretty much every food a normal person would consider "unhealthy." I am losing 2lbs pretty much every week. There's going to come a point where I will have to adjust my cals down (gotta make adjustments as you continue to lose weight), but in the end, as long as I hit my protein and don't exceed my calorie limits, I will continue to lose fat. It is the law of physics.

    Cheat days are great contextually, depending on what you consider a cheat day. When you say "shocking the body" what you're really referring to is up regulating metabolism, hormones, etc... which can be very good physically and psychologically. However, If you eat soooo many calories that you ruin multiple days worth of progress, than they're likely detrimental. An extra couple hundred calories (depending how on large the deficit is) isn't going to kill you. My cheat days, I usually eat at maintenance (3100-3200 calories or so). That way, no progress is made or lost. It's just my personal preference.

    Lyle McDonald has a good article about flexible dieting and it's importance to long term success here.

    I would aim for 170g of protein if I were you, but like I said, you'll have to decide if that's in line with your own body's muscle mass. At minimum, you want 1g of protein per lean lbs of body mass. If you are a strong *** dude who looks thick because of muscle mass underneath fat, assume you have a lot of muscle that needs to be fed.

    I would try 170g protein, 60-70g of fat, and the rest fill with carbs. And don't worry about shuffling more carbs and less fat one day. Like Lyle says, as long is protein is on point, the difference in body composition (fatloss and muscle maintenance) is approaching 0.



    Oh, and if you have the money, I want you to check out Controlled Labs Multi-Vitamin Orange Triad. Controlled labs is a highly respected company in the field of supplements. These vitamins have something special too, which is a joint lubrication complex, which I think could help you tremendously. 28 bucks for a 45 day supply, 6 pills a day. So many vitamins it turns your piss neon lol (I'm not kidding) because you can't absorb them all. Guaranteed to be healthy as a horse. Helps with digestion too. Worth every ****ing penny. I recommend these to everyone and anyone, but with your joint pains, it might be something to consider even more so.
     
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  21. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Sorry I keep asking so many damn questions, I just want to make sure that I understand this 100% before I begin. Lets say I meet my Macros and have 600 calories remain to use up for anything; does that mean I can eat anything with 600 calories (without regards to the other Macros, ie: Fat, protein, carbs, etc.)?

    Say I eat a slice of cheese cake that has 600 calories, 30g of fat, 8g protein, 20g carbs since I have 600 calories to use on anything, would I also increase my Macros count? Or do I simply just call these "calories" and call it a day.

    Thank you so much! Heading to GNC now to buy some Body Fortress. Any other supplements or fat burners that you would recommend?
     
  22. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Track everything and try and be meticulous about it. If you have 600 cals left over after hitting macros, eat with reckless abondonment lol. Record those 600 cals and their macros. Myfitnesspal will do it for you by the way. As long as you hit your minimums, feel free to use those 600 cals on any food regardless of their macronutrient content. Record for accurate data.

    Get a multi vitamin. A cheap one will be just fine.
     
  23. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ironically, booze and a steak is actually a healthy meal.

    I quibble a bit about the carbs, as simple carbs such as processed sugar have ancillary effects on the body, a calorie is a calorie there are other issues to nutrition then losng weight.

    Andy Gibb comes to mind, he was trim all his life, but his heart was destroyed from all of the excess booze and coke.
     
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  24. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Ironically, I checked out Publix and compared their prices to GNC and it was a huge difference. I saved at least $10 by buying a shaker and Body Fortress from there.
     
  25. FasanoPaisano

    FasanoPaisano Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is a good guideline for those with high bodyfat levels, but at some point in your journey to lower bodyfat levels, calorie composition does matter. Those with low bodyfat levels looking for that 6-pack for the summer may have a harder time getting there than just eating at a deficit. At least Lyle McDonald whose opinion seems to matter in the opening post, and who wrote Ultimate Diet 2.0, thinks so. (See http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/ultimate-diet-20) His book has a Chapter called "The Low-Carbohydrate Phase" and another chapter called "The Carb-Load"...so if carbs don't matter for losing fat, why would his book have 2 chapters on carb manipulation?

    "You’ll have to count/decrease calories and carbohydrates 3-5 days out of every 7." (from the excerpt)

    Granted, it's written for those with low bodyfat levels, but I think whats missing here is the relevance of hormones. The hormonal makeup of a trained individual w/ sub-15% bodyfat is very different from the untrained obese individual. That's why you can do almost anything to LOSE bodyfat when you are obese vs not, including eating twinkies every 3 hours like the Twinkie Diet guy did (did anyone ever figure out how much lean body mass that guy dropped while doing that by the way?), as long as you are eating at a deficit.

    So while a calorie is a calorie, and deficit is important, hormones set the landscape for everything. If you are over 15% bodyfat, it is very simple. All you need to do is eat less than you are eating now and some portion of the weight you lose will be fat. Exercising would be advisable for the hormonal benefit....and really, not doing so just results in smaller moobs. So the IIFYM may not be the optimal solution for everyone, particularly those with low bodyfat levels interested in body recomposition.
     
  26. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    What are you getting at fast food joints that are high in protein?
     
  27. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    KFC's hardcore or the Taco Bell chicken burritos..sans lettuce..stuff is like green death for your digestive tract.
     
  28. FasanoPaisano

    FasanoPaisano Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Good point, this IIFYM thing is aimed at body composition. The health benefits of phytochemicals, antioxidants, etc....are not necessarily the focus. From an overall health standpoint, 100 calories from spinach, and 100 calories from a dr. pepper are not equivalent IMO.
     
  29. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    At work atm. When I get home ill write the responses to everyone. I do want to make it clear though, this diet will work regardless of body fat %. Full explanation later.
     
  30. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Just go to their websites and check out their nutrition charts to see what's packing protein. Subway (double meat) is pretty awesome too. I love the dbl meat footlong club. Like 840 cals and 80g of protein. Just be careful with sauce. I never get any. I don't want some 14 year old goofing **** up for me lol. I am anal about tracking every cal I can. For Macdo, burger king, etc... I usually stick to their value menu. If I ever get a double cheeseburger, I order two (for a buck, why not? lol) and toss the bun on one away and make a quad burger. That way I'm packing 2-1 for protein and carbs. I'm always trying to make sure my protein intake is on point before anything else. It just works best for me.

    Correct. 100 cals for spinach and Dr. pepper do not provide similar micronutrients and thus offer different or negligable health effects (in the case of Dr. P.). Take a multivitamin and call it a day. Fact is, it's nearly impossible (or really hard and annoying) to get micro's perfect when restricting calories. Or even in a surplus for that matter. I'm not a huge fan of supplements (because most are trash) but the basics are fine (vitamins, fish oils, protein). You'll be alright.

    Agreed, which is why this thread is called Calorie deficit (consumption) is king. Do you mean macro consumption? If so, carbs will be removed bit by bit anyway. As I explained throughout this thread, when you set a protein goal, it needs to remain stagnant (assuming it's sufficient to begin with). Fat as well to a certain degree. Carbs will therefore have to removed over time.

    Someone weighing 200lbs will have a larger energy expenditure per day than that same person at 150lbs. Therefore, the deficit needs to keep lowering as fat is lost. Some people carb cycle at lower weight to help this process. For example, Someone 5'10, 200lbs (140lbs lbm), and is moderately active has a caloric maintenance of 2950 cals or so. Their protein must be 140g at minimum (560 kcal) and their fat must/should be 63g (567 kcal) for 1127 calories. If they're trying to lose weight at 2lbs per week, their maximum cals should be 1950. 1950kcal - 1127kcal = 873 kcal left. Assuming they spend it on all carbs, that's 873/4 = 218 carbs. Their macro breakdown is 140p, 63f, 218c.

    If this same person drops to 150lbs and is still moderately active, their new caloric maintenance is 2,732. Assuming they're still trying to drop 2lbs per week their new caloric maximum is 1,732 kcal. Their protein and fat intake should be the same at 140g p and 63g f (1127 kcal). However, their carb intake has to drop to make the difference up. They can only spend 605kcal on carbs. 605/4 = 151g carbs.

    One strategy used when very lean is carb cycling. This involves eating less fat on workout (lifting specifically) days to add more carbs for energy (plus carbs are very anabolic and aid in recovery). To make up the difference on off days (no lifting) the diet has more fat than usual and less carbs than usual. this is a little more advanced then what this thread is intended for (a simple guide to fatloss). At the end of the day, get your calories and protein in check, you'll get to where you need to be.



    Calorie deficit will get you there.

    I should of explained my sources better. Lyle McDonald is a world class nutritionalist. He is considered by a vast majority to be the best in the business. I use him a lot for that reason. PLus, unlike other nutritionalists he doesn't nickle and dime you on his website. All content is free and it's pretty vast. I love his snarky writing style too lol.

    The ultimate diet 2.0 is not a good example for the point you're trying to make. UD2.0 is also described as hell on earth by people who've done it (or tried it). The diet is designed to cut fat incredibly quickly on already lean individuals while maintaining muscle mass. It involves huge calorie deficits by removing as much fat and carbs as possible (protein remains stagnant to individual needs) for a short period of time (like 5 days I think). After 5 days, Lyle makes you refeed (at or above maintenance) with high carbs to refill your lost muscle glycogen. Rinse and repeat until single digits (7-8% body fat). It's a lot more complex than that, but that's the gist. UD2.0 also has a very specific workout plan (cardio + weights) that is grueling as well, and to make matters worse you're carb depleted.

    Basically, if you have the will power of a god and the tenacity of a lion, UD2.0 is right for you. Most people pass on it. Like his other books, I'm sure it's great and full of good info, but it's not the standard of cutting. It's a very specific diet tailored to specific interests. Just like his Keto book (He's the one who brought that diet to the masses) and rapid fat loss (a modified Protein Sparing Modified Fast) which details intelligent crash dieting (also grueling, a lot like UD2.0).


    Hormones play a role. In fact, Lyle recommends only bulking (gaining muscle through caloric surplus) from 10% bf up to 15% bf and then cutting back to 10% and up to 15%, and so on and so on. 15% body fat and above, their can be some carb intolerance (insulin resistance) because you were eating so little to get that lean in the first place and now you're at a huge surplus of them (as well as other macros since you're in a calorie surplus). Most fat people get fat because they had huge calorie surpluses and carbs were the weapon of choice (400g-500g or above). There's actually an issue of leptin resistance too in fat people (leptin is considered a very good hormone but that's another story) However, when cutting, the calorie restriction (and carb restriction as a result) fixes any temporary problems.

    As far as the twinkie guy, you're right. Obese people can get away with a lot of bad dieting for the short term because their bodies don't want to fight the fat loss. It has no desire to redirect energy shortages to lean body mass or elsewhere (don't have to, fat is in a massive surplus). However, it doesn't change the law of physics. Energy in and Energy out.

    As for the twinkie guys LBM... There are two kinds of LBM, essential (organs, bones, muscle) and unessential (connective tissues). Unessential LBM will always be lost at some rate, but it's the essential we want to strive to keep. I imagine the twinkie guy lose a bit of both (but very little essential because he was obese. 1). His protein intake wasn't likely efficient for his daily needs. 2). He didn't lift weights.

    If you're any body fat, it's all very simple. Hormones are important and do play a role, not sure why that has to be negative as it relates to IIFYM? Are you suggesting the hormone insulin is somehow bad? I already posted an article debunking this in the opening post. You don't seem to not realize that IIFYM also plays a huge role in hormone regulation as it makes sure you hit all macros, which creates positive hormonal regulation and output, unlike diets that restrict certain ones as most diets will tell you to do. IIFYM is superior and efficient at any body fat %. Another benefit, is it enforces good eating habits. You learn to eat what you enjoy while also making smarter decisions. It's truly a recipe for success.

    Exercising is a great idea, which is why I stated one kind was extremely important (bordering necessary). Don't disagree!
     
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  31. FasanoPaisano

    FasanoPaisano Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I was just trying to add to the discussion. Of course IIFYM will "get you there" at any bodyfat. Its just math. However, I believe there are more efficient ways to manipulate your hormones, which really matters at lower bodyfat levels. This is why Lyle McDonald's book isn't just 2 sentences: "Thanks for your $20. Keep eating less according to x,y,z macros and exercising."

    And I'm not saying insulin is not bad, it is a storage hormone, which is awesome for muscle growth. My whole point was hormone manipulation is very important. It's easier at higher bodyfat levels, harder at lower bodyfat levels. It's why steroids works so well, and they are calorie free!
     
  32. FasanoPaisano

    FasanoPaisano Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I will also end by saying I don't think it is a particularly good idea to keep your serotonin levels elevated. Some folks have particularly high serotonin activity when they eat sugar. IMO this is a big reason we have the obesity epidemic we have. Due to these hormonal differences between people, it is more difficult for some to stop eating than others. The "eat less" crowd isn't pointing out anything groundbreaking. I guess it is more fun to debunk all the "fads" which seem to work. But I don't see the point of continuing to encourage sugar addicts (which is likely the case for obese folks) any substantial amount of sugar, on any kind of regular basis. The same as you wouldn't encourage a recovering alcoholic to have that occasional beer...as long as they stop before it becomes excessive. IMO, suppressing serotonin levels when eating is an important aspect of long term body composition management. And all the good hormones that get supressed by eating less sugar (which is what all carbohydrate is metabolized into regardles of the form it takes going into your mouth) like Test, GH, IGF...well those can be regulated in a positive way by fasting, high intesnity weight training and eating mono and saturated fat.

    Anyway, good luck to all in their fat loss endeavors.
     
  33. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    8am: So far today, 2 scoops protein powder with cup of milk (58g of protein)

    10am: 1 slice wheat bread, 1 tbs of peanut butter (15g protein) (will repeat at 3-330)

    Snacking on pure almonds all day.....7g of protein per serving

    Have a chicken strip for lunch, id say about 15-20g of protein, on bun theres another 8g or so

    Will have chicken breast 4oz for dinner. Thatll be about 30g of protein.

    That puts me at about 158g or so, give or take. Not bad for the first day. will run and lift after work, pounding water all day long.

    Tomorrow I am gunna mix up some tuna with some salsa (heard thats good) and have left over chicken breast for lunch.

    I am out of protein powder, and will get some this weekend. What is some good sources of high protein I can use instead?
     
  34. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Meats of any kind mostly. Beef Jerky is a good choice (if you can afford it). Fun to snack on throughout the day and tons of protein at limited cals. I also like Greek yogurt. I eat Chobani mostly, but sometimes fage plain greek yogurt. 1 cup has 23g protein. It's superlow in cals (130 I believe). Tastes blah though. Which is why I like chobani even if it is a little lower in protein.
     
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  35. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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  36. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Awesome ideas, I love beef jerky.
     
  37. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Another idea for when you go to the store is Clif Builder Bars. They are more expensive than normal clif bars, I think they are about $6.99 for 5 or 6, but they are worth the extra money from a nutrition standpoint. The Chocolate Builder Bar has these values:
    Calories: 270
    Fat: 8g
    Total Carbs: 30g
    Protein: 20g
     
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  38. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Dont even bother with soda. Everyone loves it but its actually worse then beer in terms of nutritional value and the carbonation only expands your stomach muscles meaning that when you work out and get your diet fixed up and you start shedding pounds you may not see the results you physically want to see around your waist line. Soda is quite possibly the worst thing for your body if youre trying to lose weight.

    If you really want something sweet to drink ice tea and gatorade have sugar for you and no carbonation. I stopped drinking soda and eating fast food years ago...best decision diet wise that I ever made. I have soda maybe once every 6 months and I havent eaten McDonalds/BK/TB/Wendy's etc in over 15 years.
     
  39. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Indeed Steak actually has the best kind of protein fibers. I forget the reason...someone once explained it to me but the protein in steak is actually higher quality then in chicken or fish which surprised me. The trick is somehow getting it to a lean cut which means either stripping away the fat before its cooked or cooking it well done. I prefer taking 5 minutes to strip away some of the marbling and then using foreman grill to let the rest drip off.
     
  40. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    I guess? I'm just saying, cutting out carbs stops serotonin from really being produced because tryptophan can't be sent to where it needs to go. Which is why women often become depressed on low carb diets (they produce less serotonin as is). being depressed (mentally unhealthy) will not make a diet successful. 100g per day (enough to keep you out of ketosis) is enough even for people with extreme carb sensitivity as you're suggesting.

    All or nothing rarely ever works (even with alcoholics). And I do have an issue with "sugar addicts" as sugar is not addicting. Again, if you can't handle 400g of carbs per day, then don't do it. It doesn't mean all carbs must go. Carbs serve a great purpose in life.

    Don't agree at all.


    [video=youtube;ji95UYpVsjo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji95UYpVsjo&feature=plcp[/video]

    Fun video series. Guy eats 50% of calories from ice cream (ben and jerry, hagan daz, etc...). Starts at 9% body fat and is getting down to 5-6% bodyfat.
     

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