I'm not getting it. A lot of miami media are restating this, not that I trust most of those fake news making, drama addicted, click bating, "proffesional journalists", however, I am no longer in Miami and don't get to watch every game anymore.
But, looking at pure stats, I see Kiko is #14 in the league in tackles. Only one other outside linebacker (not sure is Zach Brown played inside or out this year) has more tackles and otherwise similar stats, Christian Kirksen (sp?) From Cleveland. They are paid roughly the same at approximately 9.5M per year.
Additionally I see these same writers looking at linebacker free agents who had worse, in same cases, much worse, stats than Kiko did. But, I felt Kiko did a good job, not great, but the whole team didn't do well.
Is there something I'm missing from not seeing all the games (caught 5 of them), or is the media being media?
Thanks,
Will
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Tackles isn’t everything a LB is required to do, “Alanzo” can’t do most of what a LB is required to do.
Last edited: Jan 18, 2018dolphin25, bigballa2102 and MikeHoncho like this. -
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For instance, Kiko struggles in pass protection. Kiko has a habit of over-pursuing. Some say he's a bust because of these issues. Others (like you) see a guy playing hard and hitting runners often, so that's what you're basing your opinion off of. The truth is that you're both right- Kiko is a talented player that sucks in coverage. I personally fault the coaches for putting him in that coverage in the first place though- do we get mad that Tannehill can't cover Tight Ends as well? Of course not.SocaCasualuk, danmarino, Irishman and 1 other person like this. -
I liked 2016-2017 Kiko, did not like 2017-2018 Kiko. Not doubting his love for the game or anything like that, but he was often a bad linebacker this past year.
That being said, a lot of Dolphins players played bad this year. That's why we were 6-10.miamiron, bigballa2102, danmarino and 1 other person like this. -
I'm not on either side of this bandwagon- I like Kiko and I think he's a starting caliber LB for most downs. I just get frustrated when others point out minor problems and twist it to say a player is horrible at everything. Kiko has a lot of awesome qualities as well.danmarino likes this. -
And what good is a Will, or Mike for that matter, that is a liability in pass coverage? No one keeps their strongside backer in for passing subpackages. The Sam is the one that is supposed to be substituted out for those situations, not the other two LB spots who are expected to possess more speed and agility.
Now toss in that Alonso is also easily washed out in the run game, and you've got yourself a problem that needs to be addressed at weakside backer if this defense is going to improve it's LB unit for all 3 downs. -
IMHO, he's too slow on his read & react. Is that a product of bad scheming by the coaches (maybe out of necessity due to the injuries to other key players) or is that a product of him not trusting/allowing the other guys to do their jobs and as a result being caught out of position? Probably. I think he's failing because he's trying to do too much instead of doing his job.
Do I think he can play/cover better once those other guys are back on the field and some talent is added? Yes.KeyFin likes this. -
Kiko is quick enough and fast enough to cover. He's big enough to get off of blocks and make tackles. And he's a good blitzer.
His problem was he was used wrong and asked to do too much. Yes, this past year's defensive scheme was the same as the year before. But you're kidding yourself if you think things weren't different from even a fundamental standpoint. New DC's means a lot of changes and those changes messed up Kiko.
Kiko was asked to cover people for far too long. When your front is getting little to no pressure on the QB and he has all day in the pocket I don't care who the LB is, whomever they are covering will find a way to get open. So, even though it looked as if Kiko "sucked" in coverage this season there was a lot more to it than that.
The big problem with Kiko this year was he did overrun a lot of plays and allowed the RB or receiver to get past him. I think that was due to two things, poor communication and Kiko trying to do too much because he felt the pressure of what was being asked of him.
If Kiko had played for the Pats last season we'd all be talking about what a stud he is and how much we hate him.SocaCasualuk likes this. -
I'm going to have to post some gifs b/c this is the kool-aid narrative on Alonso, and I'm talking the version with twice the sugar.
Alonso's stack & shed abilities are straight up poor. If he's not being swallowed up by the block, he's attempting to go around them (always an error) instead of thru them. His coverage skills are also severely lacking due to the same reason he's poor vs the run: bad reads & bad angles.
At the end of last year Alonso was moved from Mike b/c the staff suspected the similar things - that he's trying to do too much - so they moved him to Will. Now that those same problems are still occurring, it's becoming more obvious that he's just out there running around like a chicken with his head cut off.
Oh, and Belichick would have nothing to do with him, either. He doesn't fit their mold for sound defensive fundamentals. -
'17 grades via PFF: Alonso was tied for 69th (w/ Giants Calvin Munson) w/ a 38.3 grade. (And yes, it's out of 100)
:bag:dolphin25 likes this. -
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I'm most definitely going to respond with neither. He's too light in the pants for both positions. Alonso's strengths relate to a Will in a 4-3 Under or a WILB in a 2 gap 3-4 where he gets protection from the DL and can flow more freely. In our defense (one gap 4-3) he's not a good fit and his weakness are highlighted instead of hidden. -
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'17 Final LB gradesPlayer/Season/Pos/Pos 2/Grade/Pos Rank/Team
Bobby Wagner 2017 LB MLB 96.7 1 SEA
Luke Kuechly 2017 LB MLB 94.3 2 CAR
Lavonte David 2017 LB WLB 94.2 3 TB
Reuben Foster 2017 LB MLB 91.7 4 SF
Sean Lee 2017 LB MLB 90.4 5 DAL
Deion Jones 2017 LB MLB 89.8 6 ATL
Telvin Smith 2017 LB WLB 88.8 7 JAX
Demario Davis 2017 LB ILB 87.3 8 NYJ
Avery Williamson 2017 LB ILB 85.6 9 TEN
Navorro Bowman 2017 LB ILB 85.2 10 OAK
Vontaze Burfict 2017 LB WLB 84.7 11 CIN
Ryan Shazier 2017 LB ILB 84.7 11 PIT
Mychal Kendricks 2017 LB SLB 84.3 13 PHI
Paul Posluszny 2017 LB MLB 84.2 14 JAX
Danny Trevathan 2017 LB ILB 83.7 15 CHI
K.J. Wright 2017 LB WLB 82.6 16 SEA
Nick Kwiatkoski 2017 LB ILB 82.3 17 CHI
Jake Ryan 2017 LB ILB 82.1 18 GB
Anthony Barr 2017 LB SLB 81.7 19 MIN
Wesley Woodyard 2017 LB ILB 81.7 19 TEN
Zach Cunningham 2017 LB ILB 80.6 21 HOU
Nigel Bradham 2017 LB WLB 80.5 22 PHI
Manti Te'o 2017 LB MLB 79.9 23 NO
Blake Martinez 2017 LB ILB 79.8 24 GB
Benardrick McKinney 2017 LB ILB 79.7 25 HOU
Derrick Johnson 2017 LB ILB 79.5 26 KC
Reggie Ragland 2017 LB ILB 79.3 27 KC
Tahir Whitehead 2017 LB WLB 79.1 28 DET
De'Vondre Campbell 2017 LB WLB 78.9 29 ATL
Myles Jack 2017 LB SLB 78.7 30 JAX
Thomas Davis 2017 LB WLB 77.4 31 CAR
Shaq Thompson 2017 LB SLB 77.2 32 CAR
Todd Davis 2017 LB ILB 77.1 33 DEN
C.J. Mosley 2017 LB ILB 76.6 34 BAL
Kyle Emanuel 2017 LB SLB 76.4 35 LAC
Joe Schobert 2017 LB MLB 75.6 36 CLE
Craig Robertson 2017 LB WLB 75.2 37 NO
Jon Bostic 2017 LB ILB 74.7 38 IND
Patrick Onuwuasor 2017 LB ILB 73.9 39 BAL
Eric Kendricks 2017 LB MLB 73.4 40 MIN
Matt Milano 2017 LB WLB 72.2 41 BUF
Jatavis Brown 2017 LB WLB 70.8 42 LAC
Kwon Alexander 2017 LB MLB 70.4 43 TB
Jaylon Smith 2017 LB WLB 69.0 44 DAL
Vince Williams 2017 LB ILB 67.8 45 PIT
Karlos Dansby 2017 LB ILB 67.7 46 ARZ
Mark Barron 2017 LB ILB 66.0 47 LAR
Zach Brown 2017 LB ILB 61.8 48 WAS
Michael Wilhoite 2017 LB SLB 61.3 49 SEA
Preston Bown 2017 LB MLB 59.6 50 BUF
Brandon Marshall 2017 LB ILB 54.6 51 DEN
Christian Kirksey 2017 LB WLB 52.9 52 CLE
Nicholas Morrow 2017 LB WLB 48.0 53 OAK
Eli Harold 2017 LB SLB 47.7 54 SF
Martrell Spaight 2017 LB ILB 47.4 55 WAS
Kelvin Sheppard 2017 LB MLB 46.5 56 NYG
Vincent Rey 2017 LB MLB 45.7 57 CIN
Christian Jones 2017 LB ILB 45.3 58 CHI
Jayon Brown 2017 LB ILB 45.1 59 TEN
Keenan Robinson 2017 LB WLB 44.3 60 NYG
Kyle Van Noy 2017 LB WLB 44.2 61 NE
James Burgess Jr. 2017 LB SLB 43.9 62 CLE
Jarrad Davis 2017 LB MLB 42.1 63 DET
Lawrence Timmons 2017 LB SLB 42.0 64 MIA
Elandon Roberts 2017 LB MLB 41.4 65 NE
Brock Coyle 2017 LB WLB 41.3 66 SF
Kendell Beckwith 2017 LB SLB 39.9 67 TB
Alec Ogletree 2017 LB ILB 39.8 68 LAR
Kiko Alonso 2017 LB WLB 38.3 69 MIA
Calvin Munson 2017 LB MLB 38.3 69 NYG
Deone Bucannon 2017 LB ILB 37.8 71 ARZ
Hayes Pullard 2017 LB MLB 36.6 72 LAC
Antonio Morrison 2017 LB ILB 36.5 73 IND
Jonathan Casillas 2017 LB WLB 36.1 74 NYG
Jamie Collins Sr 2017 LB SLB 35.9 75 CLE
Darron Lee 2017 LB ILB 35.5 76 NYJ -
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Watch a game for once. He's not a player smart enough to make up for his lack of size at the position. He also remains a liability in pass coverage.shamegame13 likes this. -
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Carmen Cygni likes this.
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But, I thought I read that they go back once coaches film is released and correct their grading. Could be wrong there. Regardless it's in bad taste and poor form, and their rep takes a hit b/c of it (rightfully so). -
Carmen Cygni likes this.
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He's been a liability covering routes that don't travel in a straight line, for one. He's often stone-footed with RB's and TE's breaking right across his face. He had far less of an impact than you'd have liked, especially considering him playing OLB was supposed to free him up to do more things that he's supposedly good at. He gets caught looking in the backfield far too much for the guy expected to be your best coverage LB.
hitman8 and Carmen Cygni like this. -
Drizzy likes this.
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Unless they improved in the last year or two they are garbage. I remember on this site, three years ago, we were ripping them apart for the offensive line grades they were giving. They weren' even close to giving an accurate grade. They don' hire pro scouts. They hire any millennal and underpay him and give him a basic guideline on how to grade
eltos_lightfoot and Carmen Cygni like this. -
PFF is a generic base line for player evaluation.Boik14 and adamprez2003 like this. -
The problem I have with pff is that there is a demonstrable bias in their rating system that's not corrected for. For example, if you take pff ratings of QB's in 2017 and plot them against points scored per game by that QB when he started the game or had at least 20 attempts, you get this:
For reference I got the ratings here:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/final-nfl-qb-rankings-by-pff-player-grades-2017
What's the problem? The problem is that you'd expect the relation to be linear given that points scored is such a fundamental measure for the offense. That is, you'd expect that if two QB's differ in their pff grades by say 5 pff points, then whether one got a 95 and the other got a 90, or whether one got a 80 and other a 75, or one a 55 and the other 55, the average difference in points scored should more or less be the same.
But as you can see, QB's with the worst pff grades don't follow the same trend as those of most other QB's. It seems like pff assigns grades that are worse than they should be to QB's they consider to be really bad, given the grades they give to average or above average QB's.
Passer rating btw IS linearly related to points scored as well as win%. And if you look at how passer rating and pff QB ratings are related for starting QB's (as defined by pro-football-reference) in 2016 (I did this last year) you get this:
Same problem. Pff assigns grades that seem to be biased too far downward for the worst QB's. Oh, and the relation being linear doesn't mean the correlation is high or low, so different grading systems can grade QB's quite differently yet still have the internal consistency you'd expect.
So how to correct this? The math used is called Rasch analysis but requires that there are a huge number of graders (e.g. 100 or more) because it uses the variation in how different graders assign grades to different QB's to transform the grades by each individual grader to a score where the unit of measurement remains the same throughout the entire scale (so that a difference of 5 points really means the same everywhere).
If pff ever did that (this is standard for decades now in large-scale educational testing and in analyzing questionnaires from medical research) they'd actually be able to claim they have a scientifically validated approach for integrating the grades they get from individual graders (says nothing about the quality of the individuals though).
Point is.. there's good evidence for an inherent bias in pff grades that should be corrected before you take the grades at face value.eltos_lightfoot likes this. -
I'm more inclined to think it's due to error, rather than some inherent bias.
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