Can you use Muscle Milk as a meal replacement shake?

"Stringer Bell wrote:

I somewhat agree with what you're saying. But you can still replace your current carb intake with carbs from vegetables.

Can you expand on losing water weight/muscle glycogen?

This......

It is about where you are getting the carbs from....

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

They regain weight once they lose it because they go back to their old diet expecting different results.

The secret to maintaining weight loss is easy. Find a healthy eating lifestyle that you can live with the rest of your life and do it. Diets don't work period because the idea of them are temporary. People go on diets with the idea that they are done when they reach their goal weight.

Which is why I said, dieting (cutting more specifically, if we're talking about fat loss) is all about calories. Not sure what you're disagreeing with? People who cut out or severely limit a macro nutrient (Carbs, Fats, Protein) set themselves up for long term failure. Carbs is usually the first to go. In this particular thread, someone mentioned cutting them out. I said, that was dumb (it is) because when the diet ends, you'll go back to eating normally, re-introducing hundreds of calories to your diet as a result of re-introducing the macro (carbs) that was eliminated to lose fat in the first place. Not only that, but you're ****ing with your hormones in a negative way. That's a different can of worms though. Eat adequate Protein, fats, and Carbs in a calorie deficit and you'll lose fat. Simple. Eat adequate Protein, fats, and Carbs at maintenance and you'll neither lose nor gain. Simple.

Calories, Calories, Calories. Count them. All of them. Get an ap like myfitnesspal and download it to your phone. It's amazingly simple to count calories these days. Buy a cheap food scale that counts grams and oz too. You're going to see results very quickly.

"finyank13 wrote:

This......

It is about where you are getting the carbs from....

Not it's not. Carbs are carbs. Eat whatever carbs, from whatever sources, and you're going to be just fine. Protein must be eaten at an adequate level to avoid muscle loss (3500 calories burns 1 lb of fat, only 600 cals burns 1lb of muscle. Eat your protein and lift heavy), and fats must be eaten at an adequate level (sat fats in bulk) to help stabilize hormones. Fill the rest of the calorie deficit with carbs of your choosing. When I'm cutting, I eat cheesecake for days... why? It's ****ing Delicious. And it won't help me to lose fat any quicker if I don't eat it.

If you want to eat fruits and veggies, go ahead. Count the cals and macro nutrients. If not? Take a GOOD multi (which you should anyway) and eat whatever you want. Enjoy the hassle free weight loss eating pizza, burgers, nachos, etc...

For instance, I am cutting at 2000 cals at the moment (will bulk this fall/winter) for a 1000 cal deficit (2lbs per week). Last night I ate...

8oz of steak - 14g fat, 0 carbs, 46g protein, 320 cals
8oz Chicken breast - 1g fat, 0 carbs, 240 cals
2 Slices of Cheesecake from wal-mart - 40g fat, 82g carbs, 10g protein, 620 calories
1 Chobani greek yogurt - 3g fat, 19 carbs, 14g protein, 160 cals
1 Mcdouble *with bun* - 19 grams fat, 33 carbs, 22g protein, 360 cals
1 Mcdouble *no bun* - 17g fat, 5g carbs, 18g protein, 220 cals (I just sandwiched the meat in with my other mcdouble and made a mcdrouple).
1 serving of omega 3 fish oil - 40 cals, 5g fat.
Orange triad multivitamin - 0cals

In total, I had 2000 calories, 99g fat, 139 carbs, and 154g protein. Usually I eat around around 70g of fat and about 200carbs, but I didn't last night. And who cares? Not me. I hit my protein (greek word, meaning the first, as it's the most important macro) and I ate enough fat (at least 70). I will lose 2lbs this week... It will be all fat. I will not have starved myself or deprived myself food I enjoy.

I don't enjoy carrots, peas, broccoli, etc... I enjoy things that taste good. Like most normal people. I don't have to say to myself "Only 2 more weeks until I can eat food I actually like!!!" and drool over the thought of it. Because I know the rules of the game... I will be making a "how to guide" for this forum over the weekend. I will back up my info with citations from well known nutrition experts like Martin Berkhan, Lyle McDonald (king of them all), Alan Aargon, etc...

"Stringer Bell wrote:

I somewhat agree with what you're saying. But you can still replace your current carb intake with carbs from vegetables.

Can you expand on losing water weight/muscle glycogen?

Muscle Glycogen is... "Carbohydrate (stored in your muscles and liver as glycogen) is accompanied by a good bit of water. For every gram of glycogen stored, you store anywhere from 3-4 grams of water with it." - Lyle McDonald

When you cut carbs or severely limit them, your body doesn't have quick access to stored energy (fat is the only other form of stored energy and the process is much slower) because you depleted your stored energy (glycogen) and thus the water trapped in your muscles. Which is why people who go on atkins or any other low carb diet lose so much weight in the first two weeks. Your body holds anywhere from 10-15lbs of both water and glycogen in the muscles. So when someone says "I lost 15 pounds in 2 weeks!" it's a false positive. 15lbs of weight loss isn't 15lbs of fat loss. Of the 10-15lbs lost in total, only 2-5 lbs were fat. This could of been accomplished eating carbs. Which is wayyy more fun. And studies have proven time and time again, over a period of 4-6 weeks of low carb dieting vs. high carb dieting, weightloss for both camps was the same. Low carbers just get a quick boost that is really irrelevant. *I should note, everyone loses glycogen/water on a cut, but the amounts vary based on carb consumption.*

"Clark Kent wrote:

Which is why I said, dieting (cutting more specifically, if we're talking about fat loss) is all about calories. Not sure what you're disagreeing with? People who cut out or severely limit a macro nutrient (Carbs, Fats, Protein) set themselves up for long term failure. Carbs is usually the first to go. In this particular thread, someone mentioned cutting them out. I said, that was dumb (it is) because when the diet ends, you'll go back to eating normally, re-introducing hundreds of calories to your diet as a result of re-introducing the macro (carbs) that was eliminated to lose fat in the first place. Not only that, but you're ****ing with your hormones in a negative way. That's a different can of worms though. Eat adequate Protein, fats, and Carbs in a calorie deficit and you'll lose fat. Simple. Eat adequate Protein, fats, and Carbs at maintenance and you'll neither lose nor gain. Simple.

Calories, Calories, Calories. Count them. All of them. Get an ap like myfitnesspal and download it to your phone. It's amazingly simple to count calories these days. Buy a cheap food scale that counts grams and oz too. You're going to see results very quickly.

Not it's not. Carbs are carbs. Eat whatever carbs, from whatever sources, and you're going to be just fine. Protein must be eaten at an adequate level to avoid muscle loss (3500 calories burns 1 lb of fat, only 600 cals burns 1lb of muscle. Eat your protein and lift heavy), and fats must be eaten at an adequate level (sat fats in bulk) to help stabilize hormones. Fill the rest of the calorie deficit with carbs of your choosing. When I'm cutting, I eat cheesecake for days... why? It's ****ing Delicious. And it won't help me to lose fat any quicker if I don't eat it.

If you want to eat fruits and veggies, go ahead. Count the cals and macro nutrients. If not? Take a GOOD multi (which you should anyway) and eat whatever you want. Enjoy the hassle free weight loss eating pizza, burgers, nachos, etc...

For instance, I am cutting at 2000 cals at the moment (will bulk this fall/winter) for a 1000 cal deficit (2lbs per week). Last night I ate...

8oz of steak - 14g fat, 0 carbs, 46g protein, 320 cals
8oz Chicken breast - 1g fat, 0 carbs, 240 cals
2 Slices of Cheesecake from wal-mart - 40g fat, 82g carbs, 10g protein, 620 calories
1 Chobani greek yogurt - 3g fat, 19 carbs, 14g protein, 160 cals
1 Mcdouble *with bun* - 19 grams fat, 33 carbs, 22g protein, 360 cals
1 Mcdouble *no bun* - 17g fat, 5g carbs, 18g protein, 220 cals (I just sandwiched the meat in with my other mcdouble and made a mcdrouple).
1 serving of omega 3 fish oil - 40 cals, 5g fat.
Orange triad multivitamin - 0cals

In total, I had 2000 calories, 99g fat, 139 carbs, and 154g protein. Usually I eat around around 70g of fat and about 200carbs, but I didn't last night. And who cares? Not me. I hit my protein (greek word, meaning the first, as it's the most important macro) and I ate enough fat (at least 70). I will lose 2lbs this week... It will be all fat. I will not have starved myself or deprived myself food I enjoy.

I don't enjoy carrots, peas, broccoli, etc... I enjoy things that taste good. Like most normal people. I don't have to say to myself "Only 2 more weeks until I can eat food I actually like!!!" and drool over the thought of it. Because I know the rules of the game... I will be making a "how to guide" for this forum over the weekend. I will back up my info with citations from well known nutrition experts like Martin Berkhan, Lyle McDonald (king of them all), Alan Aargon, etc...

Muscle Glycogen is... "Carbohydrate (stored in your muscles and liver as glycogen) is accompanied by a good bit of water. For every gram of glycogen stored, you store anywhere from 3-4 grams of water with it." - Lyle McDonald

When you cut carbs or severely limit them, your body doesn't have quick access to stored energy (fat is the only other form of stored energy and the process is much slower) because you depleted your stored energy (glycogen) and thus the water trapped in your muscles. Which is why people who go on atkins or any other low carb diet lose so much weight in the first two weeks. Your body holds anywhere from 10-15lbs of both water and glycogen in the muscles. So when someone says "I lost 15 pounds in 2 weeks!" it's a false positive. 15lbs of weight loss isn't 15lbs of fat loss. Of the 10-15lbs lost in total, only 2-5 lbs were fat. This could of been accomplished eating carbs. Which is wayyy more fun. And studies have proven time and time again, over a period of 4-6 weeks of low carb dieting vs. high carb dieting, weightloss for both camps was the same. Low carbers just get a quick boost that is really irrelevant. *I should note, everyone loses glycogen/water on a cut, but the amounts vary based on carb consumption.*

Things I disagree with

People who cut out or severely limit a macro nutrient (Carbs, Fats, Protein) set themselves up for long term failure.

You are only setting yourself up for long term failure if you do not stick with the diet. If it is a lifestyle choice and one the person can stick with, then they can live a long healtheir life than before.

. I said, that was dumb (it is) because when the diet ends, you'll go back to eating normally, re-introducing hundreds of calories to your diet as a result of re-introducing the macro (carbs) that was eliminated to lose fat in the first place

Again, the diet doesn't have to end. Re-introducing unhealthy amount of calories fails no matter what diet a person is doing. Even if they are, "counting calories."

Calories, Calories, Calories. Count them. All of them. Get an ap like myfitnesspal and download it to your phone. It's amazingly simple to count calories these days. Buy a cheap food scale that counts grams and oz too. You're going to see results very quickly.

I find this faulty because who wants to do this for the rest of their life? It is simple to count calories these days, however it is still time consuming and annoying. This is not sustainable and cutting/counting calorie diets are terrible in the long term since most people do not stick to them.

Not it's not. Carbs are carbs. Eat whatever carbs, from whatever sources, and you're going to be just fine.

That is not true at all. Eat 400 calories of spinich versus 400 calories of cookies and your body will treat each one differently. Well I guess they would have different amount of "net carbs" due to the fact that the spinach has fiber. So lets say eat 100 carb grams of spinach vs 100 carb grams of cookies and see the difference. Which of course is 400 cups of spinach (.4 grams of net carbs per cup of spinach) vs 9 oreo cookies (34 grams per 3 cookies).

The problem with a calorie, is a calorie, is a calorie is that it takes away the human element of weight loss.

I had 2000 calories, 99g fat, 139 carbs, and 154g protein. Usually I eat around around 70g of fat and about 200carbs, but I didn't last night. And who cares?

Technically, you are on a low carb diet since the dietary guidlines state that you should have 300g of carbs a day.

"Clark Kent wrote:

Wrong. Losing weight is all about calories. You can eat McDonalds everyday (I do) and lose weight. Eat at a calorie deficit and you'll be fine. Eating Meats and veggies (cutting out carbs) only works because A). You drop 10-15 lbs of water weight/muscle glycogen within two weeks, which is useless if fat loss is the real goal and B). Cutting out a macro nutrient (carbs) usually creates a deficit where there was none before. This is exactly why people regain weight once they've lost it. They don't know proper ways to diet.

Eating 1.2g of protein per lean body mass, eating .45g fat per lbs (.45g per lean body mass if obese), and filling the rest of the deficit with carbs (no they're not bad for you nor will they make fat loss occur more quickly). Get gym membership and start a strength based resistance training program 3x per week (full body, no 4-5 day splits). Easy.

UCF Fin- Yeah, that's fine. Not a big deal at all.

How many calories do you cutting at per day? What's your maintenance number?

I don't really have a set number I need to stay below (I will probably try to get that worked out tonight, if I can figure out how to lol). I have just been trying to eat spread my meals out and eat as few calories as possible. A typical day for me is:

8am - Dannon Yogurt (80 calories)
10am - 1/2 Cliff bar (120 calories)
12am - 1/2 Turkey and Cheddar cheese sandwich on wheat bread (? calories)
2pm - 1/2 Turkey and Cheddar cheese sandwich on wheat bread (? calories)
4pm - Apple (80 calories)
6pm - 1/2 Cliff bar (120 calories)

I am very good about keeping that set, it is very easy since I work in an office setting. That being said I normally have a hard time with dinner. I don't know what to cook and I have found that I almost NEED to eat a bigger meal for dinner, not huge, just bigger compared to previous meals; this helps me feel satisfied while stopping eating at least 2 hours before bed. I think from now on for dinner I am going to try to eat a marinaded chicken breast and some salad with low fat dressing.

A little more about me: I am 5'9 my usual weight was around 180, this last year has been really stressful with school and I am up to 218. I don't feel as healthy and want to get down to around 165 if it is possible.

Eating cheesecake (especially from Walmart:lol:), and Big Macs.....to me isnt A) delicious and B) something everybody wants to eat.....nor healthy....you might get the same results, but you wont be as health as someone who eats cleaner than that...now dont take away my TACO BELL THO!!!!

Me personally if I never eat another one again, I could care less....basically like you said find something you like and do it....

but as Dupee indicated as well it is a lifestyle change and hopefully for most permanent...and not short term....or else whatever you do doesnt work initially...

"finyank13 wrote:

Eating cheesecake (especially from Walmart:lol:), and Big Macs.....to me isnt A) delicious and B) something everybody wants to eat.....nor healthy....you might get the same results, but you wont be as health as someone who eats cleaner than that...now dont take away my TACO BELL THO!!!!

Me personally if I never eat another one again, I could care less....basically like you said find something you like and do it....

but as Dupee indicated as well it is a lifestyle change and hopefully for most permanent...and not short term....or else whatever you do doesnt work initially...

bull****. Eating "clean" does not make you healthier. Not even close buddy. I'm at work and on my phone. But when I get home ill give you proper citations that prove it. Macros are macros. Protein from a McDonald's Burger, taco hello taco, and a chicken breast are all the same.

Ucf - I think you're eating wayyy to little. Ill write up my fitness post and pm you.

I prefer the sea food diet.....err see

Counting cals is easy as hell. I couldn't believe just how easy. I have no idea why I never made a slight effort until the last year. If you can commit to something g that easy, you have no o e to blame but yourself. Cals in vs cals out. Its scientific fact.

Oh and look up twinkle diet fin Yank... carbs are carbs, protein is protein, and fats are fats (except trans fat, which are bad).

"Clark Kent wrote:

bull****. Eating "clean" does not make you healthier. Not even close buddy. I'm at work and on my phone. But when I get home ill give you proper citations that prove it. Macros are macros. Protein from a McDonald's Burger, taco hello taco, and a chicken breast are all the same.

Ucf - I think you're eating wayyy to little. Ill write up my fitness post and pm you.

There are plenty of proper citations that prove differently. Protien from a McDonalds burger and a burger made from grass fed beef are different.

"Clark Kent wrote:

Counting cals is easy as hell. I couldn't believe just how easy. I have no idea why I never made a slight effort until the last year. If you can commit to something g that easy, you have no o e to blame but yourself. Cals in vs cals out. Its scientific fact.

Oh and look up twinkle diet fin Yank... carbs are carbs, protein is protein, and fats are fats (except trans fat, which are bad).

Easy for you.

Cals in vs Cals out doesn't work. Plenty of studies have proven that.

"Clark Kent wrote:

bull****. Eating "clean" does not make you healthier. Not even close buddy. I'm at work and on my phone. But when I get home ill give you proper citations that prove it. Macros are macros. Protein from a McDonald's Burger, taco hello taco, and a chicken breast are all the same.

Ucf - I think you're eating wayyy to little. Ill write up my fitness post and pm you.

:pity:

I guess "guy" will come next.....

oh and your wrong.....I dont care what publications/citiations you adhere too, save it I am not interested, I didnt start this thread....

go tell your doctor that you are healthier from eating fast food, and rank Walmart goodies as opposed to eating fruits, nuts, vegetables and meats and he will look at you sideways....

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Easy for you.

Cals in vs Cals out doesn't work. Plenty of studies have proven that.

bull****. There is no reputable study that exists. Of your body requires 2500 calories to meet daily need, and you eat 2000, the difference must be made up. The energy is drawn from fat. That's what fat is... stored energy. Lean body mass is used when fat supply is low. Stop posting false information.

"finyank13 wrote:

You could but you are going to get hungry quick.....

If you want to lose weight....go strict.....meats and green vegtables, no sugar, no grains.....basically if it comes in a bag, or is processed dont do it....

watch the lbs fly right off....

Paleo diet....nuff said...

http://thepaleodiet.com/

"finyank13 wrote:

:pity:

I guess "guy" will come next.....

oh and your wrong.....I dont care what publications/citiations you adhere too, save it I am not interested, I didnt start this thread....

go tell your doctor that you are healthier from eating fast food, and rank Walmart goodies as opposed to eating fruits, nuts, vegetables and meats and he will look at you sideways....

He can look any direction he wants. He laws of thermodynamics are fact. Period. If you dont like it, tough ****. Macros don't make you fat, calories do.

"Clark Kent wrote:

bull****. There is no reputable study that exists. Of your body requires 2500 calories to meet daily need, and you eat 2000, the difference must be made up. The energy is drawn from fat. That's what fat is... stored energy. Lean body mass is used when fat supply is low. Stop posting false information.

That is bull****. Of course there are reputable study that exists. If your body requires 2500 calories to meet daily need, and you eat 2500 calories, and your body passes through 500 calories, you will still have a calorie deficit.

Also if you eat 2500 calories and then eat 2000 calories, then your body will naturally try to make up the calorie deficit. Which will also causes the body to slow metabolism, so the body then needs 2400 calories instead of 2500, or sends signals to the body to be more lathargic or creates hunger pains. You can use will power, however that is also not very effective as it fails more than it succeeds.

Calories in/Calories out doesn't work because most people can't substain it long term. Plenty of studies show that most calorie deficit diets fail long term.

I don't know what research you have done, but it doesn't seem to be very thorough.

"Clark Kent wrote:

He can look any direction he wants. He laws of thermodynamics are fact. Period. If you dont like it, tough ****. Macros don't make you fat, calories do.

The laws of thermodynamics don't necessarily have a 1:1 ratio when it comes to the body. The body doesn't have to use all the energy that is provided.

Its not as simplistic as saying all carbs are created equal or all protein is created equal. Different types of carbs are going to have different effects on your insulin levels. They will have different effects on your metabolism. Everyone's body is different. There is no hard rule one way or another.

As has been said, trans fats are bad. Fast food has trans fats. I know some people that can handle it, and some people that cannot. Everyone's bodies react differently.

What do you mean your body passes through? Not sure how to answer that until I get clarification. Yes metabolism slowdown occurs, but it largely depends on the deficit and weight loss. He rule of thumb is eat 30 calories less for every few pounds. In the end, it doesn't change why I've said. A consistent deficit (pick the number) will result in fatloss.

Deficits are easy to stick to if they're not outrageous. Energy output should not be harmed. If you need 2500 calls and eat 700 per day, you're ****ed. Hormones will decrease dramatically and your body will fight back. You will fail. A 500-1000 deficit will do. If you are feeling cravings in a big way, IP cals by 100 for a few days. Rinse and repeat if needed.

"Clark Kent wrote:

What do you mean your body passes through? Not sure how to answer that until I get clarification. Yes metabolism slowdown occurs, but it largely depends on the deficit and weight loss. He rule of thumb is eat 30 calories less for every few pounds. In the end, it doesn't change why I've said. A consistent deficit (pick the number) will result in fatloss.

Deficits are easy to stick to if they're not outrageous. Energy output should not be harmed. If you need 2500 calls and eat 700 per day, you're ****ed. Hormones will decrease dramatically and your body will fight back. You will fail. A 500-1000 deficit will do. If you are feeling cravings in a big way, IP cals by 100 for a few days. Rinse and repeat if needed.

Your body doesn't use the energy or your body doesn't store the energy.

Sorry dude, the fact that most diets based on energy deficiencies fail show they are hard to stick with. For the general population at least.

EDIT: You found something that works for you. Awesome! However it doesn't work for everyone. One size does not fit all when it comes to diets.

Also, just to be clear, a diet that allows you to lose weight != a healthy diet.

You can lose weight eating twinkies and junk food. That doesn't mean your diet is healthy.

UCF, I know you mentioned you live alone but something I like to do is throw a bunch of chicken breasts in the oven on Monday or Tuesday then just eat them throughout the week with rice or whatever side you'd like... As long as you don't leave them in the fridge for longer than a week, it's fine. I am a big fan of rice because it's way easy to make and it's filling.

I'm no expert but looking at your daily diet, I think you're eating too little. Just eyeballing that list, you probably intake between 800-1000 calories. That's not healthy from my understanding... you should really up it 500-750 calories.

Lump of coal a day keeps the doctor away.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Your body doesn't use the energy or your body doesn't store the energy.

Sorry dude, the fact that most diets based on energy deficiencies fail show they are hard to stick with. For the general population at least.

EDIT: You found something that works for you. Awesome! However it doesn't work for everyone. One size does not fit all when it comes to diets.

I think most diets in general fail, statistically speaking. Calorie deficiencies should show tapered results, by design, and people could be labeling that as a failed diet. In a sense if you start off and weight 240 you need about 2,500 calories to maintain your weight, well if you lose weight by only eating 2,000 calories and then weight only 220 your body will now only need about 2,200 calories to maintain your weight. Thus if you are still following your diet your results would hardly show compared to the beginning of the diet.

I think you both are correct in terms of caloric in-take and use. A caloric deficiency will result in weight loss. That being said, just because one food item has low calories, doesn't make it a healthy food. Some people that are considered overweight are actually healthier in terms of vital signs (blood work, etc) than skinny healthy looking people due to what they eat.

I know someone mentioned the Law of Thermodynamics, but I think the Law of Conservation of Energy is more appropriate here. A calorie, is by definition, the degrees in Celsius that water changes after food inside of a metal chamber is burned. In essence, the energy in the food is release (burned) which heats up the metal chamber, which heats up the water. This energy cannot be created or destroyed only transformed. Thus the calories you eat are all the same. The other facts (fat, vitamins, etc.) determine if the food should be considered healthy or not. Hope this helped.

I am looking forward to the schedule Clark Kent!!!! I know everyone keeps saying I am eating way too little calories, but is there a problem with that? As long as I feel okay would it be safe? I am the type of person that normally takes things to extremes so I think psychologically it works better for me if I "know" I am restricting my diet and can feel a difference; plus if I weight myself once a week I'd rather loose 4 pounds than 2 pounds.

Good idea GIK, I think I am going to start buying the Publix chicken breast packets (the ones with two breast in them lol), that way I could marinade them and cook them together. That way I will only have to cook every other day.

Thanks everyone for the help! Never thought so many people would care about this!

"padre31 wrote:

Oh sure, problem is this will grow very boring.

I'd think adding a fruit salad would be helpful as you could use more vitamins and antioxidants. I know current dogma is all protein, no carbs, I've had my greatest success mixing high quality protein with carbs along with fiber.

thats not bad..i do that occasionally

"UCF FINatic wrote:

Thanks for your responses. Getting hungry shouldn't be too big of an issue because I am trying to cut out meals and just snack every 3 hours. My only problem times are the mornings (in the past I have just been eating a banana OR a 80 calorie Dannon yogurt), but more so the evenings around dinner time. I live by myself and don't really want to cook a meal just for myself, that's why I was wondering if I could just drink the Muscle Milk as a meal replacement then. Otherwise, I might start cooking a chicken breast marinaded in something for myself each day to go along with a small salad.

6 small meals a day. Thats how you lose weight. Calories are what make people "full" but food volume expands your stomach. Eat your normal diet restricted to a 2000-2500 calorie limit but break it down in to 6 small meals. If you bring a sandwich to work cut it in half and eat half at 11 or 12 and another half at 1 or 2. Space your meals or snacks out every 2-2.5 hours if you factor in a normal 8-9 hour sleep night.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Your body doesn't use the energy or your body doesn't store the energy.

Sorry dude, the fact that most diets based on energy deficiencies fail show they are hard to stick with. For the general population at least.

EDIT: You found something that works for you. Awesome! However it doesn't work for everyone. One size does not fit all when it comes to diets.

Calorie deficit programs dont work for the long term because you cant lose weight indefinitely, you'd cease to exist at some point!

Whoever thinks that the weight you lose on a calorie deficit is all from fat storage hasn't actually checked their bodyfat vs. lean body mass while they have lost their weight. There are approaches to eating and physical activity that can make your body prefer fat as fuel versus glucose, which will maximize your weight loss from fat storage, but it will never be 100% from fat stores. Get BEI body fat monitor and check it out for yourself.