did i not tell you guys our game against Pitts was a fluke? we only hung cuz of hte weather or else we woudl have gotten BLOWNNNN OUT. our WR corp is PATHETIC. possibly worst ive ever seen.
Hagan Blows, Booker as ive bene saying for 3 yrs now sucks (dont tell me he is solid b/c he is not even a 3rd WR on any other team) Martin is possibly teh worst blocker and TE ive ever seen as u notice gettin a cheap crappy palyer like that who is ntn but a fluke for 6 yrs u get the results. you want top players? you pay top money my friends b/c the draft will take u 5 yrs to get it done. you can't rely on the draft, imagine back when we didnt cheap out on Hutchinson and got him while others paid twice the money for a dockery and davis last year. we are a cheap organization taht spends millions but on crappy players for 2-3 yr contracts then resign em and wonder why we dont get newhere. whose a top player on our team besides JT who is almost done n ZT which is basically done.
our pass blocking line is pathetic. we need to pick up Lilja from Indy cuz the man can block in pass coverage very well. shelton blows take him out n bring a guy in teh draft to take the RT spot or even LT. our offense is horrible...atually beyond horrible. our CB dono how to disect a play and recognize same formations and slants especially lehan or Daniels/goodman. will allen would be an AWESOME 3rd CB and a good 2nd cb and samuels will prob get resigned as i hear and i doubt aramashadu (SP) will get to the market. Trufant looks like the best bet if we even blow money at him. SS is horrible and i doubt bell is the guy as he is a FA i belive and coming back from injury. we need 2 TOP Cbs, 1 as a number 1 and 1 rookie to become a number 2 for us with allen at 3 or vis versa.
Our D line is w/e. need new meat along with a LB.
We need 2 LBs if ZT doesn't come back but 1 main guy. 2 CB's, 1 S, 1 DT, 1-2 DE, a G, T, 2 WR, 1 TE, RB i dono bout cuz of R.B. situation (n now im more then ever down for mcfadden czu our offense just blows no spark no playmaker no fireworks NOTHING) TOO many holes cuz those are top players we need not just FILL ins or AVG. how the hell u expect us to turn it around if we dont spend money in FA for a top player or pick like a normal team in the draft unlike our sorry past.
PS: if miami loses all 16 games, they should make them play LSU cuz i doubt we would be able to beat them so they can just rub it in more and embarrass us more hten ever so our organization feels like **** and maybe just maybe they wake the **** up cuz im sick of watching this Wanny style of offense.
btw i made my decision, Cam blows, possibly the most predictable and worst coach ive seen. its etiher cuz of the personnel where we can't open up the book or hes just a fool thinking we have talent capable of running the plays he calls or actually calling htem non stop consectively thinking SOMEHOW he is fooling the D or actually thinkin we are soo good taht when the D knows the same damn formation is being called 2 times in a row and at times 3 times in a row that we can still execute it properly.
I am done venting...for once in my entire life i had no more omtivation or interst to watch the game. I had never had the feeling i had today with 9 min and 43 sec left to go in the 4th and i just was down to walk away from the TV n not watch. i usually watch till the announcers stop talking 20 min after the4 game incase they say something bout the team.
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So let me some this up.
You realize this team has a talent deficiency.
You THINK Cam Cameron can't coach an effecient team.
Rather than build upon what is already there, you want to blow it all up and start over again.
I got one question...
How did that work out for the Houston Texans? -
2004 Dave Wannstedt
2005 Nick Saban
2006 Nick Saban
2007 Cam Cameron
2008 ??? ????
What you get out of that mess is a scrambled team. Every coach wants his guys. He wants his type of player. Mueller didn't draft for this team in 2006. Saban was taking "his guys". Mueller gets the team in 2007. Mueller wants speed first and foremost. Look at his history of drafting in Seattle and New Orleans. The point is that a franchise cannot survive this much turnover. Essentially you will become an expansion team. That is where we are. We are an expansion team. Nobody wants to realize that fact but that is who we are. Change isn't good right now. Stability is good. -
well u can turn Cam into an OC cuz no one will hire him afte r0 and 16 and get a real HC. taht'll work. but his play calling is whats pissing me off.
houston got a caoch in kubiak who has taken leadership ability and a role on the team. cam donest have that leadership he is more of a friend then a coach. -
Cam's playcalling is fine. John Beck is passing the ball to his checkdown after his FIRST READ. I'll make this clear for you.
John Beck is looking a the number one route called. He's looking at the cornerback. Did the corner squat in his zone at 8-10 yards? Is the Safety moving over the top of the route? Awe hell, I've got to throw it. Checkdown or launch it?
John Beck is not making his second read. John Beck tried to make his second and third reads in the second half today. He got killed three different times. That is not conducive to John Beck learning anything. He will learn to become David Carr. That is what Cam Cameron warned everyone about without spelling it out for you!
So get it straight. At least three receivers are going out for every pass. When we are in an empty back formation, up to five receivers are going out for a pass. That means John Beck may have five different options. He is looking at two. His looking at the primary route and the checkdown. He is a rookie! They are not wide open as they were in college. He must learn how to read a defense FASTER (even before the snap).
That crap you said about friendship - it's crap. When your winning the coach is your best friend and your happy. When your winning the coach is a disciplined father figure and your happy. None of the crap about the coaches demeanor matters. It's all -
I'm winning, I'm happy.Desides likes this. -
You DO NOT build a team through free agency, this approach has never and will never work long term.
You DO build through the draft. When you need, in no particular order, defensive tackle, edge pass rusher, middle linebacker, #1 corner (because despite your obvious fine scouting and evaluation skills, Will Allen is a top flight #2 corner in this league), another safety, tight end, guard, right tackle, wide receiver, tight end and MAYBE quarterback you can not expect a "quick fix".
This bottoming out has been years in the making. Dave Wannstedt wrecked this franchise with 5 years of horrible player management and talent evaluation. Something that took 5 years to happen can not be fixed by signing a couple of big named free agents.
We need 3 very good drafts. The bottom half of the roster consists of players that don't belong in the league and the top half are backups or too old to rely upon going forward (with some exceptions of course). We need to DRAFT our own Pro Bowl players. We need to take what we started this year (Ginn and Satele) and do it about 5 times better. We need 10 new starters and the depth needs to be rebuilt from nothing. You can't change 25-30 roster spots in free agency.
I DO believe that adding a couple of top end starters on defense via free agency can and should be done. Signing a quality cover corner is priority #1. ASOMUGHA (if you are going to write a long post about what you need to do to fix the team at least take a second to learn the name of the best corner in football not named Champ) would be a coup. I think Samual or Trufant should be in our crosshairs but, the state of this franchise dictates we will have to overpay. Jared Allen should also be at the top of our list or maybe Justin Smith.
That said, our venture into free agency should be about adding depth, cheap depth. We are basically an expansion franchise. When you are starting from nothing you build through the draft. We needs picks, lots of them.
Our pick should not be held at all costs. We should consider taking less then "chart value" for trading the pick, as long as we stay in the top 5-7 we should look at taking less to move down. One player will not fix this mess. We should be looking at the '09 draft and getting a ton of picks for that draft just as much as we are looking at the upcoming draft. We're going to be picking in the top 5 for 2-3 more years anyway so we should get what we can for the future right now.Desides likes this. -
I couldn't have said it better myself UnifiedTheory. The one thing that I would add is that we have already reached into free agency for cheap depth. Some may not agree with it but we got rid of old cap killing depth. I like taking the hit in one fell swoop. It just sucks that we have to make history in doing so.
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unified did is ay BUILD VIA the fa market? NO! so dont put words into my mouth, i said you can't just RELY ON TEH DRAFT thank you.
adn Zod, waht on earth does Beck being a rookie have to do wiht it? its the same problems lemon had, trent had, and now beck. the line only allows 3 step drops. thats it. how teh heck do you blame that on him being a rookie when all 3 struggled wiht ethe same issue and its been a known fact our o line sucks in pass prot. just b/c we have 12 sacks or what not prior to todays game does not mean its a good line. it overshadows teh reality of things. -
and how do u know this all mighty one? did you not reacll what happened wiht NO? they were apparently supposed to be "5 yrs away from being a good team and a team no one wants to coach" but they turned out great last year and decent this year although many teams are playing like crap this year.
no one said fA is needed to rebuild but when you notice the market value of players is going up and ur being cheap bout it you might as well pay for the top G in football for 6 mill ala Hutch and realize next years crop of losers are goin to ask for 9 a year instead.
Miami has done ntn but that liek you said..."cheap players via FA" like our secondary and they have done NTN to this team besides Will and our D line as u can see. we picked up old geezers on our team via FA not young guys like there are this year in the 25-27 range. and dont tell me thats too old cuz our FUTURE QB which is a ROOKIE is 26. -
buddy, i understand you have a certain amount of knowledge for the game but dont come out trying to seem like your ability to analyze the team is correct. clearly you are convincing yoruself of what you want it to be and not waht it really is.
how many times a game do we see the same formation, 2 WR, ginn goin into motion to about the LT spot and hand it off to the RB and get stuffed for about 3 yards? If you are so good at analyze and noticing things you wuold notice that we run that play AT LEAST 6 times a game and usually it comes consectively. about back to back and every other series we get the ball.
a HS team can disect that same play after doing it 6 times a game for 12 games. -
I hold to the belief that you NEVER pay a guard like a tackle but that is just my opinion.
The Saints were a special case. They had an emotional element that boosted them, a last place schedule in a bad conference, a quarterback that had the season of his life and some very good players they had DRAFTED.
We only picked up "old geezers" in free agency because that is usually what is available. You don't find "in their prime" players in free agency. When you do they get vastly overpaid. Most teams either lock up their high end free agents or tag them, if they do get free there is always a bidding war.
This team is in no condition to get into bidding wars over free agents, we'll have to overpay even more because players know they will come here and lose for 3 years.
I'm not against adding free agents, as long as we are smart about it. No one player is going to help us now. Draft well and the wins will come. Once we have a foundation of young, home grown talent we'll add a few guys that will push us over the top. -
so what Adrian peterson and taylor are doin in minny is not worth the 6 mill dollar hutch but a 3 mill dollar hadnot next year or a 3 mill dollar jeno james and sheltons n such is? cmon bro our team doenst know how to invest thats the darn issue. you take the best G in teh game taht wil do wonders for ur team for 6 mill which is 3 mill more then our crappy Gs and you get ur moneys worth.
as far as home grown i do agree but dont you see that htis year there are top CB fas and some other positions such as G and so forth that is in the 25-27 yr old age group? beck is goin to be 31 by the time our team is ready to compete so i dont evne know if we will be in a good situation then either.
joey porter was a very good addition, once he gets comfortable with the defense and we add playesr taht will allow him to go BACK to OLB instead of DE we will get our moneys worth. -
i cant not folow wat u r syaing becuases i tis harard 2 reed. spwel cheker is u're freind. peeples wont's tink dat ur openion is bad 2 no, ifin dey can reed wat u types.
Seriously, I’d like to debate your opinion with you, but my head hurts trying to puzzle out what you are trying to communicate. I am also a horrible speller. I have found that it takes very little time to cut and past from a word document. -
When you start a thread off with "did i not tell you guys....?", do not be surprised if someone dares to debate or criticize. And it's a bit hypocritical to accuse someone of pontificating later in the thread. ;)
I'll let you in on a little secret: nobody remembers what anyone else said yesterday. It's annoying when ANYBODY pulls the "I said, I told you so, etc." cards. Nobody cares. ;)
Was it a shock that we lost this game? No, I go in expecting us to lose every week. I expect us to surrender every third-and-long. I expect us to give up a TD when it counts. I expect us to find ways to lose winnable games. So no, I felt like last week was a fluke because the field negated a lot of Pitt's advantages. Yet we still found ways to lose (Martin falling, Halterman dropping the TD, defense giving up game-winning drive, etc).
It would be nice to have OC Cameron, but HC's don't take a demotion to remain with the team. Just can't happen. He'd be hired as an OC elsewhere in a snap anyway.
The only person they've paid is LT Matt Light, a #2 pick who'd proven himself for four seasons. 6 years, $27 million, $9 million bonus. That's less than what we'd given Chris Chambers two months earlier.
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Now as far as your thread. You said draft picks will take 5 years and that this team has been to cheap to sign the big name Fa's. Do you understand the kind of cap space it would take to sign these Fa's?? And I am sure you understand it will/would have taken more then 1 or 2 of these big signings to turn this team into a contender. I will also assume you know how "buying a championship" worked out for the Redskins?? -
I say let Booker show what he can do...he should be starting over Chatman. I thought he looked good the little time he was out there.
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I'll say one thing, Beck was about 2 "Blind side" shots from going to the hospital yesterday. He holds the ball way too long.
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I didn't think he held the ball any longer than Brady or Manning, actually he was just releasing a couple of passes as he was hit...Our OL is not good enough for a 7 step drop at this time. The young does try to read the D and find the right receiver, but some plays take 3 seconds or so, in which our OL doesn't do a good job of giving. That's why the bomb is not a part of our game book weekend and week out, Beck had to release early on the one shot he did have. -
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loll you guys say that all the time. Every offseason its the same story. Look what NE did...Moss, Welker, Stallworth, Washington, Morris, etc etc in 1 year. That one year a few years ago when saban came in his first year did it himself when we got about 5-7 players while people said "this isn't madden" before FA started. Sorry guys, there is a reason why they get paid mmillions, they know how to run a system, manage the system. along with the fact that our management is horrible at it while others are so good at it. -
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Oh, and it doesn’t mater if it’s a typo or you misspelling a word out of ignorance, the effect is the same. You might not care, and that’s fine. But I and I suspect other people will start ignoring your posts. -
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I'm not sure what John Beck said as you didn't cite a resource. But I can assure you that you took it out of context. A player enjoys the comfort level of running the same play. It is a coaches way of giving you the chance to make a play. You don't have to learn 500 different plays. You repitition and perfect a minute amount of plays. It gives you comfort as a player. You believe in the play. You expect to execute the play. You have seen it on paper and believe it works. You have seen it on film and you know it works. It's your execution that is the culprit of failure. That is probably the context John Beck used the statement. You chose to support your argument though. Just another fan that values his opinion more than the success of the team.
The NFL changed the rules in 1972. They outlawed the Jam technique that the Oakland Raiders had perfected. That is yet another reason why Al Davis thinks the NFL is out to get him. They were killing the passing game by mugging receivers. The NFL wanted scoring. It made for better TV ratings. They even went as far as to move the hash marks to the middle of the field. Why? It made the field longer. If you are always placing the ball in the middle of the field, no defense can use the sideline as an extra defender. Did you get that? Defense has a 12th man on the field in high school football. Why is that? They never changed the rules as the NFL did. You want to know what I do with a high school defense? I mug receivers......
That's your lesson for today.....
A college graduate at 23 is still learning. He barely understands his life. Don't get me wrong as he thinks he knows everything. It won't be until 35 that he realizes that he knows nothing. That's a learning fact OF LIFE. This game - it's an education process of it's own. That is why I love it. It's more of a physical chess game than not. You have to be aware of your every move on every day. Why? Because your opponent (at least one of them) is working harder than you every day. That's cliche but it's the truth. Once the talent level is equal (such as the NFL) it becomes who will outwork the other. Some years (as a coach) I feel I have outworked my opponents. Some years my opponents outworked me. It is within the equal talent matchups that I measure my work. It is within the equal talent matchups that I measure the Miami Dolphins. At the present time, the Miami Dolphins have too many boys playing against men. That will change soon enough though........
As for the Dolphins, you think they are running the same play. Your TV screen doesn't show the routes that are being run down the field. If you are at the stadium - you are not watching the secondary. I watch the secondary when I attend games. Why? Cause that is where the game is at in the NFL. It is a passing league.
[ame]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5367550333930171373&q=clovis+east&hl=en[/ame]Last edited: Dec 4, 2007 -
First of all i play football n secobd coached for a year...i lknow a play when i see it break outa the huddle. It was one of my strenghts as a cb/qb/wr n as a coaxh. Dont put words into my mouth n third dont take em out of context. When there is 1 wr on the field n the 2nd one behind thr G/ Lt spot whatvpossible route can booker run yhat will confuse a defense? Let alone how he is not a threat. Im on my phone or else id be disecting ur full post but to sum it up cuz im not that bored, u have no clue what is goin on or what im saying. If u think that play we do involves ne routes with only 1 wr that doesnt show on my screen ur pointless to talk with. And for the record we ran the play im talkin bout 4 times if not more n the first twobwere in a row in the 1st Q i believe.
Everyone studies games n analyzes but u forgot one thing, theres alwas someone better out there n in this case many more ppl considering ur not the next great coach for an nfl team. rem just cuz u analyze dont mean ur good at it. U remind of the ppl we playedagainst that carries the i know it all....would lose to us n still did not notice to fix the mistakes the following week. In a sportnlike this rem more knowledge gathered from others is always the key to getting better -
LOL you do count on the draft, that is where champions are built. You dont build your core from FA, FA is to fill a piece not a position, that is the draft. Sory if you dont agree but look at history, the great teams are built from teh draft. NE was built from the draft, way back in 2000 they started from the draft, once theytook off then they were able to utlize FA to add pices around the core and teh core started on the lines. and behind center., then dbs.
It is a process we have avoided for 10 years. We need to realize we tried teh FA approach and it decimated our depth as we used draft picks to acquire vets that didnt produce or got old and left us without any young talent. We are finally doing what we need to do in 2001 after our last playoff appearence. -
wow you are right cause you played football and coached a year? I did as well and disagree with you so what does that mean? Cam played and coached at every level higher than you or I yet you think he doesnt know? So if because you played and coached and you seem to know then Cam is a genious cause he did it at the highest level which is more advanced than you. SO the I know what I am talking about because I played football and coached argument is bunk, it doesnt in any way prove your point.
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Its funny how the commentators notcied the same thing i did yet they are wrong along with me but yet you guys are right, the same way your so right about what we should do and what we can't do. along the lines of who we can and cant pick up in FA. i believe Saban proved 98% of you gusy wrong the 1st year when you guys said its impossible to pick up more then 1 player in FA when i mentioned shelton and 4 possible guys ya'll said thats insane. Saban went out got holliday traylor shelton allen and so forth but yet OFCOURSE OUR FINHEANDS know best. lmaoo someone shoudl close this thread its pointless ppl with sense of the game haven't responded in a while to this thread might as well close it down before giving ppl headaches as its been done already. -
NE was a HORRIBLE team until Brady and Harrison on D came along. If you hadn't notice we were always a top team in the NFL in the late 90's and early 00's we started to trade picks n go FA cuz like the pats we were CLOSE to getting to teh SB just missed a few peices the problem was the peices we tried to add were STUIPD moves b/c it was for players taht SUCKED not like NE where they get TOP players where as we get teh Feeleys and the Feidlers. thats fins football 101 for you buddy. -
And here I thought it was Parcells.......Bledsoe once in a blue moon was a good QB. As a matter of fact he came in and won the SB when Brady got hurt didnt he?
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Bledsoe was good but nnt more. he always had the typical INTS in the worst times and drive killers throughout his career. taht doesnt make a team ne good. look at the game yest with boller bad INT at a bad time. sorry good QBs dont make Bad decisions.