Dion Jordan, goes from D-tackle to coverage..impact play on wakes strip sack.

anyone have a vid of this?

"djphinfan wrote:

http://www.thephinsider.com/2013/12/10/5195902/a-breakdown-of-dion-jordans-impact-on-cameron-wakes-strip-sack?utm_source=thephinsider&utm_medium=nextclicks&utm_campaign=blogs

I'll take him in the middle of the field any chance I can get.

I still like watching him on the final play of the Bengals game when Wake got the safety. That was impressive.

"RoninFin4 wrote:

I still like watching him on the final play of the Bengals game when Wake got the safety. That was impressive.

I didn't notice that initially, that's pretty crazy. They really need to sit down this off-season and work out what they're going to do with the defense.

"Disgustipate wrote:

I didn't notice that initially, that's pretty crazy. They really need to sit down this off-season and work out what they're going to do with the defense.

I'd prefer they do it sooner. Like today. There are things I like about Coyle's defense and I think it can be tweaked to be even better, but they have mismanaged Jordan.

That adds an interesting wrinkle. I love how it gives Wake a one on one match-up. And I've always felt that Jordan's easiest transition this first year would be in coverage. I think he has the instincts, speed and wingspan for the role.

It also provides an interesting set-up for next season. Assuming Starks departs, Jordan could serve as the DT in pass situations along with Wake, OV and Odrick.

"Disgustipate wrote:

I didn't notice that initially, that's pretty crazy. They really need to sit down this off-season and work out what they're going to do with the defense.

Pate??

Considering with our own eyes, and all the way back to predraft, and it's kind of hard for me to explain, but I believe from a neutral position, his best attiribute is to go from a neutral position to north south east or west in an explosive manner..I have been adamant since predraft that he should be able to freelance in such a way to capitolize on that great ability to be explosive in any direction..well, we've seen him at his best, and imo that has been directly in the middle of the field when he has the freedom to go north south east west...

Is there any way possible to make that happen in a defense, a new type of middle backer position, ( maybe middle backer on all passing downs??)and if not, what is the next best position he should be at to take advantage of what I'm talking about..

The middle of the field, the ability to go in any direction, explosively, we've seen him go backwards covering 5 yards in one cat like jump, we've seen him track the draw forward in the open field and make the best tackle of the season, we've seen him go sideline to sideline, we've seen him forty yards downfield with gates and Gronk in his hip pocket..

Putting him on one side of the field does not capitolize on what this player has to offer, the middle does?

"RoninFin4 wrote:

I still like watching him on the final play of the Bengals game when Wake got the safety. That was impressive.

You got a link, I kinda remember, it was from the middle right?

"djphinfan wrote:

Pate??

Considering with our own eyes, and all the way back to predraft, and it's kind of hard for me to explain, but I believe from a neutral position, his best attiribute is to go from a neutral position to north south east or west in an explosive manner..I have been adamant since predraft that he should be able to freelance in such a way to capitolize on that great ability to be explosive in any direction..well, we've seen him at his best, and imo that has been directly in the middle of the field when he has the freedom to go north south east west...

Is there any way possible to make that happen in a defense, a new type of middle backer position, ( maybe middle backer on all passing downs??)and if not, what is the next best position he should be at to take advantage of what I'm talking about..

The middle of the field, the ability to go in any direction, explosively, we've seen him go backwards covering 5 yards in one cat like jump, we've seen him track the draw forward in the open field and make the best tackle of the season, we've seen him go sideline to sideline, we've seen him forty yards downfield with gates and Gronk in his hip pocket..

Putting him on one side of the field does not capitolize on what this player has to offer, the middle does?

The two examples that come to mind for me, but in different ways, are Karl Mecklenburg back in the day and Brian Urlacher. Mecklenburg had 8 7+ sack seasons (and went as high as 13) as an inside linebacker back at a time when teams passed much less than they do today. Urlacher was also a pretty productive pass rusher from an ILB position early in his career, but was also used in coverage a lot. He was a great athlete like Jordan, albeit not as tall, and could pretty much do everything when he was at his physical peak.

One thing I'd like to see more of is Jordan lined up just slightly behind Wake when Wake is out wide. Wake can either explode to the RT's outside, with Jordan making the inside move, or vice versa. Or Jordan can drop into coverage. Or Jordan rushes and Wake drops. Or Jordan stunts with one of the DTs. That's a lot for any RT/RG combo to handle.

"Fineas wrote:

The two examples that come to mind for me, but in different ways, are Karl Mecklenburg back in the day and Brian Urlacher. Mecklenburg had 8 7+ sack seasons (and went as high as 13) as an inside linebacker back at a time when teams passed much less than they do today. Urlacher was also a pretty productive pass rusher from an ILB position early in his career, but was also used in coverage a lot. He was a great athlete like Jordan, albeit not as tall, and could pretty much do everything when he was at his physical peak.

One thing I'd like to see more of is Jordan lined up just slightly behind Wake when Wake is out wide. Wake can either explode to the RT's outside, with Jordan making the inside move, or vice versa. Or Jordan can drop into coverage. Or Jordan rushes and Wake drops. Or Jordan stunts with one of the DTs. That's a lot for any RT/RG combo to handle.

Fineas for defensive coordinator. Who is going In with me to fly the banner over the stadium?

"Fineas wrote:

The two examples that come to mind for me, but in different ways, are Karl Mecklenburg back in the day and Brian Urlacher. Mecklenburg had 8 7+ sack seasons (and went as high as 13) as an inside linebacker back at a time when teams passed much less than they do today. Urlacher was also a pretty productive pass rusher from an ILB position early in his career, but was also used in coverage a lot. He was a great athlete like Jordan, albeit not as tall, and could pretty much do everything when he was at his physical peak.

One thing I'd like to see more of is Jordan lined up just slightly behind Wake when Wake is out wide. Wake can either explode to the RT's outside, with Jordan making the inside move, or vice versa. Or Jordan can drop into coverage. Or Jordan rushes and Wake drops. Or Jordan stunts with one of the DTs. That's a lot for any RT/RG combo to handle.

I know Dion can shed and tackle, he uses his hands very well when playing the run, of course I don't want to see him play the middle backer position in the traditional sense because of trash at his feet relative to his height, but there's got to be something we can do to get this kid in the middle of the field more often..Urlacher had played some safety at New Mexico , but he lined up at middle all three downs?

In what defense is the jack role used, 34 or 43?.. I think it's the 34 and it's more used on the outside, still not what I'm thinking.

"djphinfan wrote:

You got a link, I kinda remember, it was from the middle right?

I'd see if anyone that has NFL Rewind (I don't) has a better link. Here's the highlights from the game, it'll be at the end obviously:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/miami-dolphins/0ap2000000274518/Week-9-Bengals-vs-Dolphins-highlights

That angle doesn't do it justice though. Jordan's lined up at OLB in a 3-3-5 nickel look. He's on the far hash (close to the middle of the field as the ball was on the near hash, but on the defense's right, opposite Wake) at the 8-10 yard line. He ends around the 22-25 yard line covering a wheel route (it was against Sanu I believe).

"Fineas wrote:

I'd prefer they do it sooner. Like today. There are things I like about Coyle's defense and I think it can be tweaked to be even better, but they have mismanaged Jordan.

I think the picture got pretty cloudy after the Koa Misi extension. I can see both Dion Jordan and Olivier Vernon playing that type of role. Now there's 3 guys, with Misi coming back, that can play that role or something very similar to it. I think Dion Jordan would prove to be the most useful at it, because as DJs talked about, you can still drop him to the middle of the field in zone coverage or have him man-up a TE...or, you know, just burst out and cover receivers running wheel routes apparently. I just hope they give him that chance. Once he gets his pass-rush moves down pat, look out.

It's also one of the reasons I've banged the drum for a reversion back to the 3-4. If anything, it allows you to put Wake and one of the two between Jordan and OV on the edges, which is where both of them have proved most effective to this point. And, if you're still going to use as many variations of sub packages, there's still PLENTY of snaps to be had and ways to align Jordan and OV; almost like having 3 starters at 2 spots in my opinion.

The problem being is that they're going to have to make an investment on the interior D-Line, and most likely find a true, run-stuffing, Brandon Spikes-esque ILB...Miami doesn't have that part yet, and you're looking at eating a financial bullet if you go get one because you're probably going to lop Wheeler or Misi off the roster at that point.

All things considered though, if both Starks and Soliai leave, I think Miami should be targeting Louis Nix (one of my fave's in the 2014 draft), and he's scheme diverse, which should help if they merely tweak the defensive scheme rather than overhaul it. Call me a maverick, but I think my top targets in the draft and free agency would be Louis Nix and Brandon Spikes, respectively. If Miami add those two parts, I think it shores up the run defense while still allowing for Coyle's back 7 schemes.

If you lop off Wheeler and Misi to make room for Spikes and Jordan/OV on the inside and outside respectively, you've already got a ready-made pass-coverage LB in Jelani Jenkins that can take Spikes' spot in sub packages. You've also already got two guys in Trusnik and Josh Kaddu (currently on the practice squad) that can provide depth on the edges, and from their experience in Coyle's scheme, at least offer something inside as well.

I'll stop day-dreaming at this point.

"RoninFin4 wrote:

I'd see if anyone that has NFL Rewind (I don't) has a better link. Here's the highlights from the game, it'll be at the end obviously:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/miami-dolphins/0ap2000000274518/Week-9-Bengals-vs-Dolphins-highlights

That angle doesn't do it justice though. Jordan's lined up at OLB in a 3-3-5 nickel look. He's on the far hash at the 8-10 yard line. He ends around the 22-25 yard line covering a wheel route (it was against Sanu I believe).

Here's just the play:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap2000000274515/WK-9-Can-t-Miss-Play-Wake-off-safety

"Disgustipate wrote:

Here's just the play:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap2000000274515/WK-9-Can-t-Miss-Play-Wake-off-safety

Yes, this is the video where I originally noticed it. The slow-mo replay gives the best look.

"Disgustipate wrote:

Here's just the play:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap2000000274515/WK-9-Can-t-Miss-Play-Wake-off-safety

I really don't see Jordan having much of an impact on that particular play. His movement skills are obviously impressive though.

"Fineas wrote:

I really don't see Jordan having much of an impact on that particular play. His movement skills are obviously impressive though.

Well, that's the point; how impressive his athleticism is. How many other teams can get away with an OLB/DE covering a receiver running a wheel route? That's pretty ballsy considering the situation.

"djphinfan wrote:

Pate??

Considering with our own eyes, and all the way back to predraft, and it's kind of hard for me to explain, but I believe from a neutral position, his best attiribute is to go from a neutral position to north south east or west in an explosive manner..I have been adamant since predraft that he should be able to freelance in such a way to capitolize on that great ability to be explosive in any direction..well, we've seen him at his best, and imo that has been directly in the middle of the field when he has the freedom to go north south east west...

Is there any way possible to make that happen in a defense, a new type of middle backer position, ( maybe middle backer on all passing downs??)and if not, what is the next best position he should be at to take advantage of what I'm talking about..

The middle of the field, the ability to go in any direction, explosively, we've seen him go backwards covering 5 yards in one cat like jump, we've seen him track the draw forward in the open field and make the best tackle of the season, we've seen him go sideline to sideline, we've seen him forty yards downfield with gates and Gronk in his hip pocket..

Putting him on one side of the field does not capitolize on what this player has to offer, the middle does?

You're talking about instincts when you're talking about freelancing though, and I'm not sure we really know how well Jordan does there. He's definitely someone who should be put in variable positions and responsibilities, but I think we've got to see more before the free-lance part.

I think ideally, his typical position in passing situations is a 3-3 OLB. But if he's capable of covering as well as it looks like he can, and playing as well in space and pursuit as it looks like he can, you've got a lot of crazy stuff you can do. Can he cover well enough that you can line him up in positions that are normally accounted in the blocking scheme by non-linemen? If he's playing the old "Tiger" role you're referring to, can you drop him down the middle like a Tampa-2 MLB?

"RoninFin4 wrote:

I'd see if anyone that has NFL Rewind (I don't) has a better link. Here's the highlights from the game, it'll be at the end obviously:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/miami-dolphins/0ap2000000274518/Week-9-Bengals-vs-Dolphins-highlights

That angle doesn't do it justice though. Jordan's lined up at OLB in a 3-3-5 nickel look. He's on the far hash (close to the middle of the field as the ball was on the near hash, but on the defense's right, opposite Wake) at the 8-10 yard line. He ends around the 22-25 yard line covering a wheel route (it was against Sanu I believe).

Yeah, that was impressive, lateral quickness, had to flip his hips to Track him down the sideline..

"RoninFin4 wrote:

Well, that's the point; how impressive his athleticism is. How many other teams can get away with an OLB/DE covering a receiver running a wheel route? That's pretty ballsy considering the situation.

Not only did he flip his hips from going laterally to upfield, you'll notice once he knows he had the player covered he turned his head to look at the Qb..Qb throws that ball it's going the other way.

Not many linebackers can cover like that let anyone a guy this size.

"Disgustipate wrote:

You're talking about instincts when you're talking about freelancing though, and I'm not sure we really know how well Jordan does there. He's definitely someone who should be put in variable positions and responsibilities, but I think we've got to see more before the free-lance part.

I think ideally, his typical position in passing situations is a 3-3 OLB. But if he's capable of covering as well as it looks like he can, and playing as well in space and pursuit as it looks like he can, you've got a lot of crazy stuff you can do. Can he cover well enough that you can line him up in positions that are normally accounted in the blocking scheme by non-linemen? If he's playing the old "Tiger" role you're referring to, can you drop him down the middle like a Tampa-2 MLB?

I think Luke Kuechly is the best cover linebacker in the game, I think Dion can do anything he can do, plus you get the extra length.

"RoninFin4 wrote:

Well, that's the point; how impressive his athleticism is. How many other teams can get away with an OLB/DE covering a receiver running a wheel route? That's pretty ballsy considering the situation.

Yeah, I got that. I had in my head that people were saying he had a big impact on the play, but it looks like that was re: the play against Pittsburgh referenced in the OP.

"Fineas wrote:

Yeah, I got that. I had in my head that people were saying he had a big impact on the play, but it looks like that was re: the play against Pittsburgh referenced in the OP.

I've seen plays much more impressive then that one where he isn't in on the play, but what he does affects the play positively for his teammates.

Another play I quite appreciated Dion Jordan on was vs. the Panthers. It's the play at 7:11 in the first quarter on NFL rewind. It's a 3-3 Nickel front, with Wake/Odrick/Starks on the line, and Ellerbe, Vernon, and Jordan at LB. It appears as in this play, Jordan replaced Phillip Wheeler in a true linebacker spot. Olsen fakes a pass block, and releases short to the sidelines and Jordan has him blanketed completely as soon as he breaks into his route, while Newton stares at him the entire time and has to throw it away.

"djphinfan wrote:

I've seen plays much more impressive then that one where he isn't in on the play, but what he does affects the play positively for his teammates.

That's impossible. If there isn't a stat to measure it, then it never happened on the football field.
That's what we were told be the cognoscenti as it regards Mike Wallace. How defenses play him has no positive effect for anyone else on the offense. The coaches said it does, but they are not smart and just wrong, because they do not agree with the cognoscenti.
Must be the same for Jordan. :shifty: