If they see something that makes them want to keep him around and allow him to develop his skills, who am I to argue with the Triumvirate? Turner looked pretty decent in the Tampa game.

 

I think we have at least 3 better WR's on the roster right now that they should be choosing from for that 5th spot..... I also doubt he dresses for more than 4 games this year.

 

I think it makes more sense to keep the player that has been performing better and has similar potential than to keep the player that has been performing worse and has no better potential.

 

Who is also one dimensional, Turner offers no flexibility.

Not that i'm down on Pat Turner, to me he does have potential however he really hasn't shown anything more than the UDFA Wr's have.

 

Tight End.

 

I think that a 3rd round pick needs to be given more than just one season. He deserves atleast one more season to prove something

 

I think that's the key. Does Turner have anything that makes him a better prospect than the other options? Is he faster, bigger; does he have better hands or more explosiveness? The fact that he was a third round pick is irrelevant. Most experts thought he was taken too high. IIRC the general consensus on Turner was 5th or 6th round.

And that doesn't even account for him contributing less than the other options on STs. The fact is that if your 5th WR isn't contributing on STs, he's basically doing nothing. You basically have to believe that Turner will be a #2 WR soon to justify wasting a spot on a player who does nothing. And I have yet to see any reason to believe that Turner is any more likely to develop into that #2 than the other options who are giving you something on STs right now.

 

Exactly, with RGM being waived, the Wr corps is beginning to be paired down to Sparano Island status, Roberto Wallace is AS tall, and much faster, Marlon Moore has done nothing but produce, and Julius Pruitt has played well as well.

All 4 basically played the same last Saturday, this Saturday is key for all 4 of them, does Turner's scholarship status lock him onto the roster?

 

Those other 3 might be better candidates for the practice squad though. I don't see the 5th Wr getting many reps or time unless he is a standout on special teams. So it will be interesting to watch the next 2 games. Turner is not a special teams player so it gets real interesting if one of them stands out. Roberto Wallace already has one ST's blunder under his belt so my guess is if it's between He and Turner, it's Turner.

 

You should know what I'm implying by just posting this.

 

no one likes to admit their wrong
the third round draft will assure him another year to develop
weather he is the best WR or not
as long as he can show some growth & promise in preseason
having said that
personally I like Roberto Wallace as an up & coming prospect
if they let Camarillo go (long shot but possible)
well, I'm not going there...not much of a chance

 

I would think the biggest reason for this move would be stated above, Moore and Wallace are great PS candidates, while Turner isnt. Our #5 WR likely isnt going to make an impact this year no matter WHO it is. But we may be able to keep 2 of them maybe 3 if Turner is named #5, Moore and Wallace signs with our Practice Squad.

Although I cant see Turner playing STs...

 

tHIS REGIME SEEMS TO DRAFT HIGH ON POTENTIAL. dRAFTING TOO HIGH IN ALOT OF CASES.

Edit: Sorry about the caps lock being on.

 

The PS angle is one thing , but as the 5th WR , Turner offers size , but so does Wallace. Marshall addresses a lot of the size issue and Roberto Wallace also adds speed as does Moore.

Speed is what is missing from this WR corp , speed , explosiveness and big play ability. So if they feel one of the other wideouts can provide that , and Turner is a Marshall lite ( quite lite ) then perhaps that makes their decison, no?

 

Well you can try to use that angle, but it just doesnt work IMO. Heres the thing for me:

Brandon Marshall
Brian Hartline
Devone Bess
Greg Camarillo

There is no 5th WR available that is going to get playing time over those guys. regardless if their bigger, faster, stronger, their not better. I mean, even if they did get some playing time and they got 5-10 catches this year, its not going to make a difference in our win loss record. So perhaps we scheme to keep them all for next season and see who progresses the most, like I believe this case is. Redzone targets we have plenty of, with size.

Marshall 6'4 230
Hartline 6'2 200
Fasano 6'4 255
Martin 6'4 260
Haynos 6'8 270

We have plenty of size for those types of plays. Theres no reason to make someone the 5th WR just because of that

 

i think they want to give him a year with Marshall as a mentor .... that's what i see ... as we aren't 'pressed' to get him on the field barring injury, of course ...

Wallace and Moore go to the PS ...

 

I think that makes my point , doesn't it , with all due respect ?

We don't NEED size , we do need ( arguably ) speed , explosiveness and return ability.

So the 5th wideout could provide that on a game by game need basis. Easier to dress a player that offers additional aspects to the game than one that just mirrors existing ones n'est pas?

I think one of the non listed WR's could get playing time over Camarillo. Not saying one will , but Hartline is ( or potentially is ) a better Camarillo , Greg isn't as good in the slot as Bess . Camarillo doesn't offer the speed of Wallace or Moore and is not a return guy .... so .... I do see it as a possibility , not a given though.

This next game and games will have a lot to say on this decision imo. Game day productivity ..... hard to ignore that if/when it happens.

 

Not really imo. Because speed is speed, but that doesn't make you better. And despite Cams lack of talent his hands and route running ability makes him much more useful. Speed by itself means nothing.

Now if the speed can progress into an all around talent then that's someone you can put on the field.

 

All true , but so far Moore and Wallace have shown true speed , which is something this team does lack , AND enough talent to see if that translates to game days imo.

Just saying, it would not surprise me to see a good guy cut here ...

 

Turner still sucks. He made his one big catch because of a big mental error by the defender.... so as long as his defender makes a big mental error on every single play for the rest of Truner's career, we have a Pro-Bowler on our hands.

Hell, he looked surprised and off-balance when he realized he'd actually caught a ball.

Dude is slow as crap and I just don't see him being worth keeping as a number 5 when his upside is limited, his practices are inconsistent (as is his play) AND he contrinutes nothing on STs.

Why fill a roster space for 5 catches and 19 yards for a whole season... cuz that's the most I'll bet he gets if he stays.

This regime has three painfully humbling decisions it must make: Cut Pat Turner, Cut Pat White, and officially start the season with Jake Grove as the highest paid second string center in NFL history.

 

For one, He's got better hands than Wallace and Moore.

 

Debateble, he really hasn't been given much of a chance to show whether or not he has good hands during games, even last preseason.

 

ive been sayin it all offseason, he makes the team....potential is there..

 

Turner has very limited upside; the one and only thing he has is size, which we have in Marshall and Hartline, and which we also have in Wallace; and Wallace has the added advantage of speed.

Turner also has serious character flaws, including a lack of natural, innate motivation, and that is never going to change because it is intrinsic in his makeup.

 

My feelings on Turner's lazy-seeming, slow, 'whatever' energy is summed up by two things...

1) How is this got NOT a pothead?? Everything about his WAY too disinterestedly mellow demeanor reminds me of one.

2) This quote from the film "In The Loop": "...you sat there like a dumb sack of s**t. Only maybe worse, because, actually, on a molecular level, s**t is probably fizzling with energy."

 

I like the way you guys assume his persona and personality without ever meeting him. Bravo to you both.

Turner has the ability to make catches Neither Moore or Wallace can make.

 

I don't see any reasonable basis for that contention. Turner has, infrequently, made some spectacular catches, but so have the others. Turner has also shown a consistent inability to gain separation in both college and the pros. And there is nothing athletically that makes Turner stand out over Wallace and Pruitt. IMO if Wallace or Pruitt had gone to USC and Turner had gone to less heralded schools then it is just as likely that they would have been the guy that was drafted too high.

IMO the odds dramatically favor all three of these guys never being a even a #2 WR in the league. The difference that Turner is the least likely to contribute on STs.

 

The weakness of your first argument is only surpassed by the ridiculousness of your second.

 

Hmm, Wallace is much faster than Turner and plays with better balance..Turner has a problem catching the ball in stride and maintaining his balance.

 

In his defense, the ball weighs like 50 lbs.

 

Is that like "he has a 35 inch vertical leap" meaning "he is 6'3 and has a 35 inch vertical leap ontop of a 75 inch reach"?

I've never understood how they can do those "relative to" comparisons.

 

i think we are giving him a bit of time with Marshall to see what he does .... if he can drink the Kool-aid, improve his work ethic, etc .... we can afford to give him some time at this point, but a decision needs to be made in the next 2-3 months about his progress and future ... and then move on to Wallace, etc .... albeit, Wallace could make the team as a STer ....

 

Ok hows this for you.

Turner has better lateral quickness than Moore and Wallace. His hand work needs some development to get off the line cleaner, but its progressing. He has pretty damn quick feet for a player his size and is able to use his vision to cut back when needed. If you watch film on him, he has the ability to gain extra yardage on cut backs when thats not common for a player his size. He has good hand placement when catching the ball, using his hands to cleanly bring it in. He looks in the ball all the way and tucks it in once he catches it. He is pretty good at tracking the ball and can make over the shoulder catches with ease. He is able to shield defenders when necessary when the ball is in his lane and the defenders tries to make a play on the ball. What he NEEDS to be working on is his bursts out of his breaks. Thats his main problem. He doesn't really get into the defenders cushion and make him swerve his hips, allowing Turner to sink his hips and throw his head when needed. For instance, if Turner is running a deep comeback, Turner will try and break the cushion of the defender, making the defender swerve his hips and flip the transition into a backpedal. This would theoretically allow Turner to hit the 15 yard mark and "give head" and chop his feet while sinking hips. This would throw the defender back even further, allowing Turner to come back towards the sideline and QB and creating the utmost separation. This doesn't happen commonly or may I say, didn't happen commonly last year and in college because of his lack of burst. If he can fix his lack of explosion off the line and breaks, he will be a much better play than Moore or Wallace can be.

 

I will feel sorry for Moore or Wallace if Turner doesnt show up and we have another Turner no-show. Harsh on the Rookies just because of where we drafted Turner.

 

How likely do you think it is that Turner can fix his lack of burst?

In my experience that's not something that WRs generally fix. And if he doesn't fix it, then Moore or Wallace will be much better players.

 

I agree with this assessment of the player, sounds similar to my predraft writeup on him..However, me and you are a dying breed when it comes to this athlete..I would also include that I like the way the player play's in traffic, and how he get's small in traffic when he needs to with that 6'5 frame...Maybe were right about his talent, and potential, but maybe they are right about his head....At this point, our odds of being right about his projection do not look to good.

For me, his talent is too much for me to give up on going into his 2nd year, like most have....Like I said earlier, I got him making the team.

 

Moore or Wallace wont be much better players. They will be marginally if that.

You work on drills in the offseason for explosion and quick bursts. Its very very possible to do.

 

They'll be at least marginally better WRs (more IMO) b/c a WR that can't get separation is almost useless. And they will contribute considerably more on STs. So overall, they will be much better players.

I understand about explosion drills, I have used them a great deal myself. But my experience is that players like Turner who have poor explosion rarely improve more than marginally. I think the odds of Turner ever being better than a 5th WR are miniscule.