Dolphins vs. The Field

"Carmen Cygni wrote:

It's ill-advised to compare the team's past history to it's current circumstances. Also you're negative view of mediocre results in contrast to our team's projection of being the worst in the league with a tanking label isn't prudent. Any uptick in success from there is a step in the right direction for this season.

I took your presentation of the effect of victory on the team emotionally etc. to be something consistent or absolute such that it would apply at any time. However, if you're suggesting that it's relative, dependent upon the current state or performance level of the team, then wouldn't that mean your point is simply that the team's emotional state, as it's currently constructed, this year, without looking forward, is what's most important, not success or victory in the long run?

Looking only at this single season, individually, it's certain that more victories is better than less victories. However, taken in the context of longer term success, and the pursuit of such following years of mediocrity, a losing season that seeks to rebuild the team finds its success in getting the best picks, with a view to getting the best players, available. Ultimately success will be measured (like everything else) by wins and losses, but the attempt to get there by rebuilding the team from scratch can only be weighed by viewing the wider context. That's the declared rationale, and thus perspective, of the owner and front office. As such, while one is free to consider only the individual season, it would be a mistake to not consider the perspective held by the team itself.

"Galant wrote:

I took your presentation of the effect of victory on the team emotionally etc. to be something consistent or absolute such that it would apply at any time. However, if you're suggesting that it's relative, dependent upon the current state or performance level of the team, then wouldn't that mean your point is simply that the team's emotional state, as it's currently constructed, this year, without looking forward, is what's most important, not success or victory in the long run?

Looking only at this single season, individually, it's certain that more victories is better than less victories. However, taken in the context of longer term success, and the pursuit of such following years of mediocrity, a losing season that seeks to rebuild the team finds its success in getting the best picks, with a view to getting the best players, available. Ultimately success will be measured (like everything else) by wins and losses, but the attempt to get there by rebuilding the team from scratch can only be weighed by viewing the wider context. That's the declared rationale, and thus perspective, of the owner and front office. As such, while one is free to consider only the individual season, it would be a mistake to not consider the perspective held by the team itself.

We were originally discussing possible "ideal" situations. Obviously, there are many ways a team may achieve their success.

4 wins separated Indy at #1 (Andrew Luck) from Miami at #8 (Ryan Tannehill).

Just sayin'...

Oh, and 4 more wins separated the #8 pick (Tannehill) from the #22 pick (Weeden).

Just sayin'...

"DolphinGreg wrote:

4 wins separated Indy at #1 (Andrew Luck) from Miami at #8 (Ryan Tannehill).

Just sayin'...

Oh, and 4 more wins separated the #8 pick (Tannehill) from the #22 pick (Weeden).

Just sayin'...

You could state similar and adverse scenarios like these for days. There's a ton of talent in the NFL, what separates teams is how they practice, prepare, and ultimately how they are coached.

"Carmen Cygni wrote:

There's a ton of talent in the NFL, what separates teams is how they practice, prepare, and ultimately how they are coached.

There's a ton of talent in the NFL but it isn't evenly distributed so talent matters too.

I mean.. it's crazy to think win% wouldn't systematically go up (statistically by about 2 wins per season) if you replaced a Tannehill with a Peyton Manning regardless of coach. And the best shot at getting a great QB is to tank in the year before a hot prospect comes out.

I do agree with you though that if we dominate the 2nd half of the season that would be reason to celebrate. That would mean that Flores is likely a good coach AND that Rosen is the QB we've wanted (there's no way we "dominate" with a QB playing like Rosen has so far!)

Just saying.. let's not dismiss the need for player talent even if the HC and GM are the most influential individuals on a football team.

Both the Bengals and the Redskins look colossally awful this season....But I still say they are a step ahead of us. I realize Denver is also without a win, but they'll win some games fairly soon. They're way too competitive not to pull out 4-5 games this year. I think they probably win 2 in their division alone.
So if we're talking "tiers" in terms of actual bad teams, I would go

Tier 1
Broncos, Jets, Steelers, Falcons, and the Giants (who may move up soon)

Tier 2
Bengals, Redskins, Cardinals

Tier 3
Dolphins, and we stand completely alone I think as the aboslute worst team in the NFL right now.

So....As the season progresses and eventually ends, I have the draft order as so....Top 8 oicks

1. Dolphins
2. Redskins
3. Bengals
4. Cardinals
5. Broncos
6. Jets
7. Falcons
8. Steelers (us)

"cbrad wrote:

There's a ton of talent in the NFL but it isn't evenly distributed so talent matters too.

I mean.. it's crazy to think win% wouldn't systematically go up (statistically by about 2 wins per season) if you replaced a Tannehill with a Peyton Manning regardless of coach. And the best shot at getting a great QB is to tank in the year before a hot prospect comes out.

I do agree with you though that if we dominate the 2nd half of the season that would be reason to celebrate. That would mean that Flores is likely a good coach AND that Rosen is the QB we've wanted (there's no way we "dominate" with a QB playing like Rosen has so far!)

Just saying.. let's not dismiss the need for player talent even if the HC and GM are the most influential individuals on a football team.

I understand your point, even though Peyton, IMO, is the best QB to ever play and was essentially a coach on the field. Certainly though, an elite player, although rare, elevates the team's overall talent pool.

And while there is a decent chance at landing a great QB in the first round, if one is to model their team almost strictly around QB play (Gase) you're ship is sunk before you leave the dock.

Dwayne Haskins /Redskins drama. Lots of rumours Gruden will be gone in a week or two.

If that's the case they will start playing Haskins and with a new coach, they'll likely win one or two.

And apparently Gruden has wanted Colt to start all year.

So maybe that Redskins owner won't ditch the coach but will ditch Haskins.

Broncos with a 17 point lead at the half, over the Chargers.

Jets and Skins remain horrible.

"Galant wrote:

Jets and Skins remain horrible.

Cinci too. It was actually good to have some time to watch other games. Kept flipping through different games and Cinci is really listless. They played a bad Arizona team yet managed almost nothing until the end. Assuming Rosen isn't the answer (and he very likely isn't), Cinci definitely looks like a threat for that #1 pick. Only thing going for us is that Cinci is playing to win. It wasn't lack of effort today.

Washington actually played OK in the first half against NE except at the QB position. Their defense was fine and they had an OK running game (mostly one huge run but still). But Colt McCoy? Ouch. Probably the worst QB playing in the NFL at the moment. He's new I get it, so maybe greater familiarity with the offense will lead to some improvement, but if he plays against us next week like he played today the Dolphins are likely winning that game because there's just no way Washington is scoring 10+ points.

Also was glad to see Kyler Murray for an extended period. The guy has elite scrambling ability but man.. he makes too many errant throws of the type I doubt will be fixed with experience. I think he'll have some really good games but I doubt he'll do it consistently. Glad we didn't pick him now that I've seen more of him (not saying he'll bust, but I don't see a great QB in him).

Anyway, we have some competition for that #1 pick.

Q&A - Which winless team can turn their season around...

Starting at 25:27

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id=GzlMQI5YPJk;t=1528

Bengals visit the Ravens next week - so they're still win-less.
Jets host the Cowboys... IF Darnold is back, maybe, just maybe, the Jets can pull out a win... but probably not.
Miami vs. Washington, unless it's a tie, that will be one less win-less team.

With the bye week this week the Dolphins have dropped to 3rd in the draft rankings, but the Steelers pick has moved up to become the #5 pick.

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"Galant wrote:

With the bye week this week the Dolphins have dropped to 3rd in the draft rankings, but the Steelers pick has moved up to become the #5 pick.

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And Mason Rudolph will miss some games, he got absolutely demolished, knocked out completely. Scary moment in that game. Their backup didnt look completely lost, but coordinators will catch him fast once they get tape.

Deshaun Watson though ... damn it would have been nice to land him. We will be lucky to see that Texans pick be a top 20.

Broncos won though, so they pull "ahead" for now. Some rumors they may trade a number of vets though.

I still think Jay Gruden is gone Monday (maybe Tuesday), and that the Skins will start Haskins. There isnt a better team than us to do it against.

Gruden is gone.

Dolphins Twitter is despairing following this news but I took it as a good thing. As someone said above, a move like this can sometimes be good for a win. Can't get worse for them.

Darnold cleared to play.

"Galant wrote:

Darnold cleared to play.

The #Jets get their QB back https://t.co/WPPQTxrMJU

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) October 8, 2019

Cool, the jets still suck with him. Improvement is lateral. Darnold doesnt have it.

"Vertical Limit wrote:

Cool, the jets still suck with him. Improvement is lateral. Darnold doesnt have it.

They do still siluck with him but they suck a tad bit less probably. He can at least make some throws, he just happens to make an equal amount of bad ones most of the time.

I dont think hes good though, at all, dont take it that way.

"Vertical Limit wrote:

Cool, the jets still suck with him. Improvement is lateral. Darnold doesnt have it.

Don't the Jets have a run at one point though of us x2, giants, redskins and bengals.

Week 7

The Broncos lost to the Chiefs...badly.
Half-time, the Dolphins are up 14-9 over Buffalo.
The Bengals are 7-6 over the Jags.
The Redskins are 0-0 with the 49ers.