Draft Winds 8 - Colin Kaepernick Special (w/ Video) plus Miami Meetings

ckparrothead · Mar 15, 2011

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnists/hyde/blog/2011/03/draft_winds.html

Enjoy.

GMJohnson · Mar 15, 2011

Thanks as always.

jdang307 · Mar 15, 2011

I love the little nuggets about what you guys look for in evaluating players. Things such as how long the arms are on a LT prospect. Apparently it's opposite for QBs.

There is some school of thought that the best combination for a quarterback is to have a tall guy with short arms, which keeps his delivery nice and short.
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Prototypical QB

djphinfan · Mar 15, 2011

Respect the work...

Just to add to the analysis of a QB that our regime has interviewed, and plans on bringin in for a private..I agree with our regimes interest in the player, and have so before the news came out.

I would first like to add, and I think its something that keeps getting lost in translation, is were not talking about spending a first on the player..I have noticed most folks don't seem to be quantifying that correctly, but sure are quick to compare him to the other projected first rounders..

Awareness...This is not a 1 read, follow the script type QB..this is a guy that plays with feel, and instincts.. The opposite of Chad Henne..

Eyes are downfield while escaping and scrambling.. He does not have the instincts of a run first QB IMO..He just has the athleticism to get it done on the run when he has to.This is so important when taking a developmental project..

The hitch is overrated.... because the release is quick..not saying its not an issue, just smaller imo than whats being projected..all you need to know is timed speed from initiation of the motion, to the release of the ball..Its quicker than the eye assumes, its a little funky yes, but its a quick funky, which diminishes some of the negative.

For a 230lb 6'5 QB, a low 4.5, is a low 4.5...he has more athleticism that 95 percent of the QB's in the league already..he doesn't need anymore to execute the responsibilities athletically that his position will demand , and has it in spades to escape and make plays...and, just because Von miller tripped him up in the senior bowl, doesn't mean sh$#, if anyone wants to get that twisted with some sort of accurate projection that he might have problems escaping in the pros, I dissagree, I for one will take his athleticism just fine for the position and not think twice.

Playmaking ability...are we forgetting the most important element in a football players repertoire...

I see a QB that has the accuracy, the guts, and the velocity, to fit the ball into tight windows...

The player has arm athleticism to get rid of the ball under pressure..He can throw on the run to his left or right..

I like the way he sets his feet at the apex of his drop, good base, reads, and fires, with no hesitation..

I disagree on the 4th round grade, his skillset physical and mental, is worth more..

CaribPhin · Mar 15, 2011

jdang307 said:

Prototypical QB
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You FIEND!

dolfan7171 · Mar 15, 2011

djphinfan said:

Respect the work...

Just to add to the analysis of a QB that our regime has interviewed, and plans on bringin in for a private..I agree with our regimes interest in the player, and have so before the news came out.

I would first like to add, and I think its something that keeps getting lost in translation, is were not talking about spending a first on the player..I have noticed most folks don't seem to be quantifying that correctly, but sure are quick to compare him to the other projected first rounders..

Awareness...This is not a 1 read, follow the script type QB..this is a guy that plays with feel, and instincts.. The opposite of Chad Henne..

Eyes are downfield while escaping and scrambling.. He does not have the instincts of a run first QB IMO..He just has the athleticism to get it done on the run when he has to.This is so important when taking a developmental project..

The hitch is overrated.... because the release is quick..not saying its not an issue, just smaller imo than whats being projected..all you need to know is timed speed from initiation of the motion, to the release of the ball..Its quicker than the eye assumes, its a little funky yes, but its a quick funky, which diminishes some of the negative.

For a 230lb 6'5 QB, a low 4.5, is a low 4.5...he has more athleticism that 95 percent of the QB's in the league already..he doesn't need anymore to execute the responsibilities athletically that his position will demand , and has it in spades to escape and make plays...and, just because Von miller tripped him up in the senior bowl, doesn't mean sh$#, if anyone wants to get that twisted with some sort of accurate projection that he might have problems escaping in the pros, I dissagree, I for one will take his athleticism just fine for the position and not think twice.

Playmaking ability...are we forgetting the most important element in a football players repertoire...

I see a QB that has the accuracy, the guts, and the velocity, to fit the ball into tight windows...

The player has arm athleticism to get rid of the ball under pressure..He can throw on the run to his left or right..

I like the way he sets his feet at the apex of his drop, good base, reads, and fires, with no hesitation..

I disagree on the 4th round grade, his skillset physical and mental, is worth more..
Click to expand...

Good read. I think he would be a good for us. I wonder if he would start this year if we have a season?

MarinePhinFan · Mar 15, 2011

djphinfan said:

Respect the work...

Just to add to the analysis of a QB that our regime has interviewed, and plans on bringin in for a private..I agree with our regimes interest in the player, and have so before the news came out.

I would first like to add, and I think its something that keeps getting lost in translation, is were not talking about spending a first on the player..I have noticed most folks don't seem to be quantifying that correctly, but sure are quick to compare him to the other projected first rounders..

Awareness...This is not a 1 read, follow the script type QB..this is a guy that plays with feel, and instincts.. The opposite of Chad Henne..

Eyes are downfield while escaping and scrambling.. He does not have the instincts of a run first QB IMO..He just has the athleticism to get it done on the run when he has to.This is so important when taking a developmental project..

The hitch is overrated.... because the release is quick..not saying its not an issue, just smaller imo than whats being projected..all you need to know is timed speed from initiation of the motion, to the release of the ball..Its quicker than the eye assumes, its a little funky yes, but its a quick funky, which diminishes some of the negative.

For a 230lb 6'5 QB, a low 4.5, is a low 4.5...he has more athleticism that 95 percent of the QB's in the league already..he doesn't need anymore to execute the responsibilities athletically that his position will demand , and has it in spades to escape and make plays...and, just because Von miller tripped him up in the senior bowl, doesn't mean sh$#, if anyone wants to get that twisted with some sort of accurate projection that he might have problems escaping in the pros, I dissagree, I for one will take his athleticism just fine for the position and not think twice.

Playmaking ability...are we forgetting the most important element in a football players repertoire...

I see a QB that has the accuracy, the guts, and the velocity, to fit the ball into tight windows...

The player has arm athleticism to get rid of the ball under pressure..He can throw on the run to his left or right..

I like the way he sets his feet at the apex of his drop, good base, reads, and fires, with no hesitation..

I disagree on the 4th round grade, his skillset physical and mental, is worth more..
Click to expand...

Great post. However, I have to disagree with this part: Playmaking ability...are we forgetting the most important element in a football players repertoire...

I'd much rather have a QB with Manning's brain than 4.5 speed.

dolfan7171 · Mar 15, 2011

MarinePhinFan said:

Great post. However, I have to disagree with this part: Playmaking ability...are we forgetting the most important element in a football players repertoire...

I'd much rather have a QB with Manning's brain than 4.5 speed.
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How about both?

dolfan7171 · Mar 15, 2011

Whoa you really narrowed it down!!

CaribPhin · Mar 15, 2011

ckparrothead said:

You'll notice that I didn't even bother addressing the "run-first" issue. It's not an issue. It truly shouldn't have needed addressing with Cam Newton any more than it would need addressing with Colin Kaepernick. Both players, the tougher the defense gets, the more likely they were to try and run the ball off a pass call. But in general, when it was a pass call, they passed the ball a very high percentage of the time. It seems to me like I don't hear that criticism laid on Kaepernick, like we do Cam Newton, so I didn't even address it. It's a non-issue for both players.

As for the hitch, it absolutely is an issue. No amount of "want" is going to make it simply go away. When he's on top of things, he has a quick enough release. But because of the way he's learned to throw the ball, he has to really be on top of things and thinking about them in order to keep his release from regressing into that long, drawn out motion which DOES give defenders extra time to see the ball. It's already happened. You can't take it away or pretend it didn't happen. There have been plays where his release gave defenders an early tip on the ball's target. His release is not funky like Phil Rivers' release was funky, or like Vince Young's release was funky. Both players' motions were TOO SHORT, if anything. Kaepernick's motion is funky like Tim Tebow's motion is funky...TOO LONG. And the style of the release, and his long legged strides into the ball, tend to give away the target, as well as making his spin and accuracy inconsistent.

And no, a low 4.5 is not a low 4.5. You get him behind the line of scrimmage where he doesn't have 20 yards to build up his speed, he's got the agility and lower body explosion of a lot of the guys in this Draft that wouldn't be talked about as particularly athletic guys. No matter how much you want to see a quick twitch, elusive guy, it's just not there. He's a straight line long strider. That's what he is. And that's why he CONSISTENTLY had trouble against linebackers with any kind of ability. And we're not just talking about Von Miller. We're also talking about Luke Kuechly, Mark Herzlich and Winston Venable. And there was also a play against BC where he couldn't get away from a DEFENSIVE TACKLE, in a straight up foot race, because he didn't have enough runway to take off.

I haven't forgotten anything with respect to "the most important element in a football player's repertoire". The guy doesn't process the field quickly. THAT is probably the most important element of a quarterback's repertoire, is the ability to process information quicker than it's thrown at you. He doesn't do that.

His 10 yard split (1.62) was slower than (in order): Tyrod Taylor (1.50), Christian Ponder (1.57), Cam Newton (1.58), Blaine Gabbert (1.59) and Jake Locker (1.60). Ricky Stanzi (1.65) and Andy Dalton (1.65) were not far off from Colin in this measure.

His vertical jump (32.5") was worse than (in order): Josh Portis (40"), Tyrod Taylor (37.5"), Jake Locker (35"), Cam Newton (35"), Christian Ponder (34"), Blaine Gabbert (33.5"), Greg McElroy (33") and Pat Devlin (33"). He was tied with Ricky Stanzi (32.5"), ahead of Jeff Van Camp (31"). The rest of the crowd were below 30".

His broad jump (9'7") was worse than (in order): Cam Newton (10'6"), Josh Portis (10'6"), Tyrod Taylor (10'6"), Blaine Gabbert (10'0"), Jerrod Johnson (9'11"), Pat Devlin (9'8"), Christian Ponder (9'8") and Scott Tolzien (9'8"). He was tied with Jake Locker (9'7"), and ahead of Jeff Van Camp (9'6") and Ricky Stanzi (9'2"). The rest were below 9'0".

His short shuttle (4.18) was worse than (in order): Tyrod Taylor (4.09), Christian Ponder (4.09), Josh Portis (4.12), Scott Tolzien (4.12), Jake Locker (4.12), T.J. Yates (4.12) and Jeff Van Camp (4.16). He was tied with Cam Newton (4.18), ahead of Blaine Gabbert (4.26), Andy Dalton (4.27) and Ryan Colburn (4.28). The rest were 4.3+.

His cone drill (6.85) was worse than (in order): Jake Locker (6.77), Tyrod Taylor (6.78), Ryan Colburn (6.84), Blaine Gabbert (6.84), Scott Tolzien (6.84) and Josh Portis (6.84). He was tied with Christian Ponder (6.85), ahead of Jeff Van Camp (6.87), Cam Newton (6.92), Andy Dalton (6.93), Rick Stanzi (6.95) and T.J. Yates (6.96). The rest were 7+.

As I said, he's obviously a good athlete. His low 4.5's speed is UNIQUE on that frame. But, his quick twitch athleticism, balance, tackle breaking ability, elusiveness, agility and lower body explosion...those aren't unique. Other guys have that stuff. Other guys have better than him on some of that stuff, as a matter of fact.

I'd rather have unique elusiveness than unique build-up speed. Tyrod Taylor has unique elusiveness. Colin Kaepernick does not.

He's basically Jekyll and Hyde with his motion. Because of the way he learned to throw the ball, on the football field when he's got a bunch of things to think of, he winds back and loops it like Byron Leftwich or Tim Tebow, and yes it absolutely takes extra time. And even worse, the motion itself caused him to affix his shoulders and feet to the target a little earlier, and it can kind of cascade that way. WHEN he's on top of it, the ball comes out plenty quick enough. But I could watch 10 throws of his and feel he only stayed on top of his motion and prevented it from getting long and loopy maybe 1 time. He's staying on top of it more at the Senior Bowl and in the Combine experience, but this could have untold effects on his throwing on the field. Players generally have a rough time when they try and mess with the motion they've become comfortable with.

I don't know how anyone watches those videos and comes away thinking his motion on 90% of those throws is "quick". I really don't. To each his own.
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As crazy as it sounds as a fan of the U, I like Tyrod Taylor. I think he certainly has ability and is very athletic. Have you guys done anything on him yet? If not, what's your opinion on him?

ckparrothead · Mar 15, 2011

KingMotion said:

As crazy as it sounds as a fan of the U, I like Tyrod Taylor. I think he certainly has ability and is very athletic. Have you guys done anything on him yet? If not, what's your opinion on him?
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Fails to impress me in practice field situation in nearly every setting. He was awful at Shrine practices. Make no mistake, awful. He was awful at the Combine. Make no mistake about that one, the most awful performance of any passer at the Combine was delivered by him. And yet, I know coaches tend to like this guy. His East coach made him the starting QB over Pat Devlin. Jim Harbaugh obviously had tremendous respect for him. When a guy can move like that, it's tough to defend him. And he's a better game manager than he is passer. He may be asked to make a position switch...but part of me thinks some coach may take a shot on him and try and see if they can coach him to play quarterback. You know that if you do give him that shot, he's going to give 110% at every opportunity, because he does NOT want to switch positions.

Shamboubou · Mar 15, 2011

I find it interesting that all you hear about this guy is good good good....so why is it that he's not going in the 1st round. What is dropping him down to possibly a 3rd or
4th round pick?? Obviously I read about his combine, which tells me how good he would be if he was on the track team, but how about on the football field.

CaribPhin · Mar 16, 2011

ckparrothead said:

Fails to impress me in practice field situation in nearly every setting. He was awful at Shrine practices. Make no mistake, awful. He was awful at the Combine. Make no mistake about that one, the most awful performance of any passer at the Combine was delivered by him. And yet, I know coaches tend to like this guy. His East coach made him the starting QB over Pat Devlin. Jim Harbaugh obviously had tremendous respect for him. When a guy can move like that, it's tough to defend him. And he's a better game manager than he is passer. He may be asked to make a position switch...but part of me thinks some coach may take a shot on him and try and see if they can coach him to play quarterback. You know that if you do give him that shot, he's going to give 110% at every opportunity, because he does NOT want to switch positions.
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Sad to hear that. I really like the guy as a player. Sometimes hard work isn't a match for genetics.

djphinfan · Mar 16, 2011

MarinePhinFan said:

Great post. However, I have to disagree with this part: Playmaking ability...are we forgetting the most important element in a football players repertoire...

I'd much rather have a QB with Manning's brain than 4.5 speed.
Click to expand...

I didnt mean that because he has 4.5 speed he has playmaking ability, I meant he has playmaking ability from that position, instincts.

djphinfan · Mar 16, 2011

http://www.rotoworld.com/images/photos/NFL/MIA/4684.jpg

I while ago I had some disagreements on whether or not Chad Henne has a hitch in his release...noone agreed with me then...I said that when he initiates the motion, the ball goes forward first, than he brings it back, with the ball away from his body, and than fires on a lower plane, this motion that Henne has makes the ball suseptible to backside pressure, and contributes to his many batted balls...I will reiterate Henne has a hitch..

I provided a picture to analyze, if one thinks that he does'nt have one, one is not looking close enough..

ckparrothead · Mar 16, 2011

Shamboubou said:

I find it interesting that all you hear about this guy is good good good....so why is it that he's not going in the 1st round. What is dropping him down to possibly a 3rd or
4th round pick?? Obviously I read about his combine, which tells me how good he would be if he was on the track team, but how about on the football field.
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Well, if all you've read about the guy is "good good good" then I guess you didn't read our piece on him...

ckparrothead · Mar 16, 2011

djphinfan said:

http://www.rotoworld.com/images/photos/NFL/MIA/4684.jpg

I while ago I had some disagreements on whether or not Chad Henne has a hitch in his release...noone agreed with me then...I said that when he initiates the motion, the ball goes forward first, than he brings it back, with the ball away from his body, and than fires on a lower plane, this motion that Henne has makes the ball suseptible to backside pressure, and contributes to his many batted balls...I will reiterate Henne has a hitch..

I provided a picture to analyze, if one thinks that he does'nt have one, one is not looking close enough..
Click to expand...

Thanks for the illustration of what a normal, chest-high release looks like.

djphinfan · Mar 16, 2011

ckparrothead said:

Thanks for the illustration of what a normal, chest-high release looks like.
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not an ideal release, he moves the ball and arm forward before he pulls back, and the ball is too far away from his body, there is a windup there, its a slight one, but its there....

djphinfan · Mar 16, 2011

''• Talked with a scout the other day who said he thinks Arkansas QB Ryan Mallett is a lock for round one. However, at the same time he said he would take Nevada QB Colin Kaepernick any day in the second round over using a first on Mallett.''

source..National football post..

agreed.

CaribPhin · Mar 16, 2011

Please let them fight

ToddsPhins · Mar 16, 2011

KingMotion said:

Please let them fight
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You smell like coconuts

djphinfan · Mar 16, 2011

ToddsPhins said:

You smell like coconuts
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seeing that were posting nothing at all, TP, the girl in your avatar has got a nice body, but shes gotta face like a tuna sandwich..

ToddsPhins · Mar 16, 2011

djphinfan said:

seeing that were posting nothing at all, TP, the girl in your avatar has got a nice body, but shes gotta face like a tuna sandwich..
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lol. That's funny...... I never noticed her face.

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