Nailed him to a tee, 5th round flyer? Fine.

 

So your saying we will pick him in the 2nd then? :lol:

 

It's Jeff Ireland....I cant say for sure.

 

god help us if he's a dolphin.....

 

It all depends on where you take him. I'm not a fan either, but there's a certain point in the draft where they could look at him and say it's good value. I don't know what they see his value is though. To me he's a 5th rounder based off of the tape.

 

I'm starting to get to the point where I say if a QB isn't worth taking in the first round of the new CBA draft, then he's not worth taking anywhere unless 7th rd.

 

I don't think that's a good philosophy personally.

 

My thing is this, if you don't think the QB is worth a first rd pick, but a 5th rd pick, what's the point of taking him in the 5th? That's not value because the things a team can use a 5th rd QB for they can use a 7th rd pick to do. I just think there's waaaaaay more chance of a 5th rd LB starting or making a significant contribution to the team than a 5th rd QB.

 

Because sometimes he has limiting factors that prevent the scout or whatever you want to call it from placing a significantly higher grade like the first round on him. The thing about it is that you have to remember the quarterback prospect is not the only one in the draft; there's other positions that offer great talent too. In an ideal world, the quarterback position takes precedence but it just doesn't work that way because there are other positions that are significant too.

Look at Russell Wilson of Wisconsin. What you're basically saying is because you don't have a first round grade on him, you're not going to take him despite him having good value in round three. And I just don't think that's the right way to operate because at the end of the day, you are still building a team.

 

Regarding a 5th round quarterback's likelihood of starting, I think that's debatable. There are some core characteristics that you can identify in even later round quarterbacks that give them a chance in the NFL. I'm not saying his chances are as great as earlier picks, clearly, but I think there's a better chance than people think.

 

Values are going to change in time. With Wilson, everything I heard is that the only thing keeping him from a 1st rd grade is height. I think in time, with the rookie scale, that one flaw isn't going to keep him out of the first rd in the future. Again, a huge penalty is gone now, that makes gambles easier to make. At some point a Wilson is going to come along and someone is going to grab in the first and they'll have success. When that happens other GMs are going to realize the strategy has changed. I just think unless the QB has a first round grade and dropped, there'll be no point in taking a QB anywhere but 1rd or 7rd.

 

I know there's a chance, but isn't the chance better for a LB or Safety or any other position?

 

It is case by case because those type of prospects are usually schematic role fits, in my opinion.

 

Schematic role or not, that would mean just about any other position is going to contribute to the team more than a 5th rd project QB on average...even if its just special teams.

 

You can find ST players anywhere. Your higher round picks can be ST players at times, depending on the position obviously. You look at the value of the quarterback position and you can conclude it's a risk worth taking.

 

The position of QB is valuable. 5th rd QB's rarely ever make an impact however. 5th rd non qb's often make an impact.

(Let me reiterate, this is not about QBs that fall, this about QBs no one thinks is worth anything other than a 3rd round or less.) Basically I'm saying that the QB position is so important and the penalty is so small now, any QB with a real chance to be a league starter is going to get picked in the 1st. I'm not saying its going to happen this draft or even next, but it will happen. When it does, you'll see QBs graded either rd 1 or rd 7.

 

4th round if they don't get Tannehill or Weeden sooner.

 

He would be a wasted pick IMO .

 

Doesn't mean you don't take one that has the chance to.

I don't disagree with you on quarterbacks being overdrafted. It's going to happen with Ryan Tannehill and Brandon Weeden this month, in my opinion.

 

I don't understand your first statement.

 

If you think a quarterback has a chance to develop despite being a late round talent, you can still take him. See the Ron Wolf philosophy which worked well for him.

 

We're going in circles.

The reason is you're using examples and thought processes of what happened before the new CBA. I'm saying with the new CBA the Ron Wolf approach won't work.

 

I don't really agree but OK.

 

...and why is that exactly? Are you trying to say those QBs drafted past the fourth round was only because they didn't want to pay them 2nd round money?

Are you trying to claim Brady would of been a 2nd rounder if not for money? I don't get it?

 

D, I get what your saying. It is going to take a few more seasons for others to check into this and really play out. I could see maybe 1st and 2nd, and then 7th. The CBA will give teams the opportunity to dilute the QB position
to where all other positions are possibly better value rounds 3-6.

 

I think drafting a QB with a 5th round grade is rarely ever worth it. You have a better chance getting production out of a DE than a QB that far down. Yes, maybe once every 25 years you'll find a Tom Brady, but the chances are obviously slim.

 

I'm a ASU alum, so I'm somewhat biased. But at the same time I was able to watch all of his starts at ASU. That UCLA 2010 comeback he engineered was awesome. Had some great games this past yr and some ok games. That ASU losing stretch was mostly due to the epic defensive collapse in the 2nd half of the season and due to Alex Garoutte not being able to kick fg's to save his life. He's not 6'8, so it got old hearing announcers spew it all season, but he is very tall and extremely mobile. You can see why he had an offer to play basketball at Gonzaga. He also knows his place when running the ball. Always gets down, and only runs when he has to. Has a good arm to go along with his above average mobility in the pocket for a guy his size. Noel Mazzone really worked his magic on this kid and it's unfortunate he wasn't named starter in 2010 when he lost the battle to Threet. He's been working with Mazzone in California, has changed his funky delivery and has made a lot of progress since the Boise game. Kid keeps improving. His decision making is sometimes poor, and he locks onto receivers at times. Oz will just need to sit a year or two to get more seasoned but he would be a guy Philbin could work with. I wouldn't touch him before the 4th though. I was pretty bummed about his decision to leave school, but he was pretty hurt by ASU losing Noel Mazzone as he wanted ASU to name him head coach to replace Gpa Erickson. Mazzone had a great relationship with Oz and was a big reason for his success. He actually cried and got upset about Mazzone's departure. Think he would have better served staying for his senior year and ironing out a few things, but the kid is an athlete and has the intangibles to be successful at some point. Just not right away. Go Sun Devils! Btw, looking forward to reading your write up tonight at work Boomer!