Looks like a sea anemone in a helmet.

 

sea anemone.................. from hell!!!

 

If true, that's very disappointing. Letting Chris Clemons prevent you from signing OJ Atogwe is like letting Akin Ayodele prevent you from signing Karlos Dansby.

 

I'm not totally on board with Clemons, but only due to his inexperience. That said, Desides, I totally agree with you on Atogwe. If they are the least bit unsure, then they should go after him. You can argue what we may pay him, but either way, whether we get him for a song or for the Brinks truck, he's an improvement over what we have...I say that with no disrespect to Clemons, Jones, Culver or Amaya...just a matter of fact...

 

ridiculous statement.
they are developing clemons because he is a young guy they drafted.
if you are against that you are wrong.
you can be upset that they haven't made an attempt to sign atogwe but don't knock clemons just yet.
some people make absurd attempts to bash players that could be the future because they want to over pay over rated veterans.

 

No, it's actually an accurate statement based on Chris Clemons' play in 2009. He's right down there with Jason Allen. Clemons escapes true scrutiny because he's a 5th round pick and because his poor play was overshadowed by the colossal busting of Gibril Wilson, but that doesn't mean he deserves a pass.

I'm not against developing young players. I'm against anointing young players as guaranteed successes and attributing a level of talent and ability to them that they simply have not shown, which is what's going on with Chris Clemons. He gets a couple of halfway decent mentions from Omar Kelly and suddenly he's the answer at FS? I don't think so.

I question if you actually have seen Chris Clemons play. He's moderately okay in run support and sucks everywhere else, as evidenced by his game against Houston.

"Could be the future" is not "is the future." Furthermore, it makes no sense to take a mulligan on a critical position now just because think a guy might be ready to go in a couple of years--aka, the future.

Atogwe may or may not be overrated. However, his stats compare favorably to Ed Reed, particularly against the pass, which is the point of acquiring Atogwe in the first place: to improve against the pass. Pass defense is more important than run defense, so I'll take a free safety who can create turnovers and cause havoc for the opposing offense's passing game instead of a free safety whose only positive attribute is being able to move up to stop a runner after the guy has already gained five or six yards.

 

FreeSafety is the Achilles Heel:
Is this the time to develop a player or make a run on the BigEnchilada?
there will be more to this story before our opening game. :yes:

 

If this guy turns into a 5th round gem...HELL YEAH. I just don't think OTA's and Minicamps prove anything and you definitely shouldn't base your team around a person's ability to run around in shorts and catch balls.

 

jesus christ can't there be a thread about clemons that doesn't have ranting and raving about why we haven't gone after atogwe?
the guy wants too much money and we aren't willing to spend
stop being a bunch of whiners and live with the decision.
the dolphins are only willing to pay what they see is fair market if at all
maybe they don't want the guy because he was injured last season
either way get over yourselves
the FO knows a hell of a lot more than any of you who sit on a dolphin web site and complain.
hell we landed marshall and dansby that is a very good splash so why over pay for a guy who may or may not fit.
as for the SB talk you people are delusional if you think this team right now is going there this year. we just aren't there yet. it's not going to happen.
what better time than the present to develop a guy
I watched clemons last season and yes he struggled but he has the physical abilities it is just a focus issue. that improves with reps. you have to play a guy for him to get better. once again anyone who doesn't believe that is wrong.
and yes we will know a hell of a lot more when the pads come on
for now stop complaining about atogwe because it is about as old as sour milk. give it up and think about what you have not what you covet.
for the record I am a big fan of culver to be the FS. :up:

 

Jury is still way out on Clemons, Culver et al, it may well be with our CB's being more experienced, with the new D from Nolan, and what they see in Clemons, we might be OK. Still, given all that, I'd rather we at least make a run at Atogwe. Maybe Ross or Parcells decided they've spent all they're willing to spend in FA this off season with Dansby and Marshall.

They haven't exactly been cheap however, and letting JT, Torbor both go should have cleared up enough $$ to at least make a run at Atogwe. There are people who aren't that high on Atogwe, maybe Parcells & Ireland are in that camp, or they just feel he's overpriced himself and are waiting for Atogwe and his agent to come back to reality so we can make a lower offer and be competitive.

 

I haven't seen enough of Clemons to know how good he really is. I think at this point comparing him to Akin Ayodele is a bit premature though.

 

agreed we arent just SB caliber yet, so develop those young guys, because that what keeps you on top, and I think it is easy for the fans to say buy this or that guy, but that just doesnt happen in football like say baseball....what Miami did this offseason in terms of a football offseason is go crazy spending cash....

 

we sure did and you have to be careful and prepare for the cap to be put back in place. (even though I think it won't for various reasons)
We went out and spent big money for a WR and a LB a guy on each side of the ball yet people still complain why we aren't signing a big money FS. They obviously won't overspend for one or Rolle or Clark would have been here already. They won't pay atogwe what he thinks he is worth which is too damn much money. They are taking the smart approach and giving the young guy they drafted a hell of a lot of reps. Sure they are only in shorts for now but that is what it is. I think for some reason fans live off of what a young player does in their first year and says that is it. He sucks we need to go out and overspend for a big name. Most of the time that veteran turns out to be a farce anyway. Often fans don't have the patience or intelligence to understand that a young player can develop and get better.

 

Not really. We cut bloated contracts and reallocated that money to new contracts, and we saved money on the periphery by playing around with tender designations and trading down in the first round of the draft. Factor in the contracts we jettisoned and we didn't break the bank nearly as much as it appears on the surface.

Brandon Marshall and Karlos Dansby are not reasons to not pursue Atogwe.

 

Hungry is what hungry gets......vets with thick wallets have less incentive to get at it, the way a younger guy who wants thick wallets would...

 

shameless www.universaldraft.com plug:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyA_DG3q56I"]YouTube- Universal Draft Presents Miami Dolphins FS Chris Clemons '09[/ame]

It is difficult to tell what is rookie uncertainty and what is a lack of ability with C Clemons, he does show nice speed, but the driver doesn't seem to no where to steer.

As for Atogwe, I'm lukewarm on the guy, to me maybe signing him is a return to the bad old days when Miami didn't develop players, they just signed slightly older veterans, people tend to forget the hole we've had at Safety since Brock Marion and a part of that is due never developing a young player for the position.

I will say one thing I don't like about Chris Clemons is his build, the guy looks like a Cb, can he come up and make plays in run support? And will his body handle the pounding?

 

I think Chris Clemons will be good. I don't know how long it will take but I think he has what it takes. I say put him in the fire like they did Vontae and Sean last year and see how he does. I think he may surprise some people and actually be pretty good. I am just really excited for the season to get started I guess.

 

Thing is,this is his big opportunity.The coaches are saying here is the ball,kid.Run with it,let's see if you can handle the job.
At his tenor and at that position you don't see that to often.I hope he can make the best of it and land the starting job.

I don't want to be the first to start calling him the 5th round Lemon. :shifty:



Yeah,I know...:lol:

 

I watched the kid at Clemson, and I was honestly shocked he lasted till the 5th round last year. The kid is gonna be good. Don't let the draft status fool you. Where you were drafted means nothing, what you do once you get the shot does. He's gonna do fine back there.

 

I think problem with safety on this team is we're overloaded with Strong Safeties, going back to 2008, which is when we adopted a "Quarters" approach to the pass defense. Because of that, we dont have any true FS's. I think Culver comes close but he's not very talented. With Clemons, its way too early to tell if he has the ability to be a starting FS or not. I wouldn't conclude anything about going by his rookie season alone. Alot of good players in this league had quiet rookie seasons. Not to mention he didn't play until the end of the season. I think with Nolan coming in and the reshaping of the secondary taking place we're re-scheming it as well and it seems the "Quarters" formation is going to the backburner. Hopefully we can plug in someone there than specializes in true pass coverage rather than run support. None of our safeties specializes in defending the pass. The trifecta tried to address this by going after Clark and Rolle. Since we didn't get either its time to see what we got and if no one meets expectations than we try and land a new FS.

 

the Achilles Heel of 2010 for Miami

 

dunno, more like the wildcard

 

So, should Miami always go after every free agent that would be an upgrade? Or do we let the army of professional talent evaluators and coaches do their job? Where should the line be drawn?

 

You go after players that fill gaping needs and make your team better.

 

Jesus Christ, why does nearly every one of your posts start out like you want to kill someones dog!!

For the record, I do like Clemons and somewhat agree but man you have an unusual way of getting your points across!

 

I know right!! He really does!
Just when you think things are calm...Killerphins has roidrage moment!!!

:wink2:

 

Who defines need?

If the coaches feel the players they have are worth the money they want to spend, then maybe there isn't a need. Its not like the guys haven't gone out and spent money to fill holes.

 

When I feel strong about something I like to kick in the door and wake everyone up. :lol:

Clemons is the guy for now and why not develop that guy. The way to do that is to put him on the field. He has to earn it but why not stay in house on this one since you drafted him. Find out before going out and spending for another free agent.

 

Free safety was a glaring weakness last year and while he showed promise, it's not the smartest thing to just put all your eggs in one basket. Not without having depth there. If he fails, or is slow to develop into what you need, then the entire defense will be hurting for it.

I would not want them to break the bank but I would, and still do, want to get another starting caliber player at FS. A veteran for sure...