Ex cowboy scout says dolphins made mistake going with left tackle over qb.

What's up with these people coming out now and saying this :facepalm:

Why try to be an expert now when any plain person can just look at the results and say the samething

We should of also drafted Aaron Rodgers, Frank Gore, Tom Brady, Jay Ratliff, Clay Matthews, Desean Jackson, Darrell Revis, Nick Mangold and so on......

It's easy to play the results now and say this team should of drafted this player, the trick is to say that right before and after the draft not when the players finish to develop

Why look back when we should be looking forward?

Yes we could have got any of these guys over the years, but they might not have turned out as good here.

We should be looking forward at what can be instead of what could have been.

"jetssuck wrote:

This:

This argument just doesn't make sense, your position isn't practical ..... and using Matt Light doesn't help your argument, it helps mine.

I'll just say this, Jake Long will not save Tony Sparano's job this year...... good play at the QB position most likely will tho.

Oh and I'm a big Jake Long fan........ but from the minute both he and Henne were drafted, this argument hinged on Chad Henne.

Henne pans out it was the right move, he doesn't then the pick should have been Ryan.

And for those saying Ryan wouldn't have been any good here? Good QB's make even the worst teams better.....

Good running backs make the worst teams better. Good offensive lines make the team better. Its all one giant system, I think qb is important, but there are other arguments for other positions. And seeing as how they are all pretty dependent on one another every argument is pretty much moot. And you didn't answer my question.

"unluckyluciano wrote:

Good running backs make the worst teams better. Good offensive lines make the team better. Its all one giant system, I think qb is important, but there are other arguments for other positions. And seeing as how they are all pretty dependent on one another every argument is pretty much moot. And you didn't answer my question.

I agree that there are other positions that are important......A QB can't do it alone as we saw with Marino

However..... I just think it's hard to argue against the QB being the most important position on the team.

They didn't ignore the QB position when they drafted big Jake.....they bet that Henne would be good enough and they could have their star LT as well. So far that's not working out...

You should always build your team around the QB...... not build a team that is good enough to make up for the fact that your QB is mediocre.

The Wanny/Fiedler years taught us that....

"unluckyluciano wrote:

I think it has to do with people thinking that a qb is the most important position on the field, which is debatable really. I can understand the argument, but I don't think its as clear and cut as people like to think.

A great QB is infinitely more important than a great tackle especially if winning is part of the agenda. But to be clear, I'm not sayin Matt Ryan is a great QB just yet, thats reserved for Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

"Boik14 wrote:

I dont think thats fair at all. Who would be our LT right now? Would we have taken Sam Baker instead of Merling? For all we know Ryan may have failed miserably here due to the lack of targets and protection.

I agree with the consensus, if you want to look in hindsight the mess up wasnt taking Long over Ryan it was taking Brown over Rodgers.

Well you could say the same thing concerning Rodgers, in fact even more so as Ryan wasn't a project like Rodgers....Ryan played day one and Rodgers rode the pine for years behind Favre. Had Rodgers started day one it's likely he'd be just another David Carr

Not to mention Rodgers was no where near being rated a top 5 guy like Ryan or Brown for that matter....

"Stitches wrote:

The only person I remember advocating Matt Ryan that year around here was Adamprez. Most everyone else either wanted CLong, Dorsey, or JLong.

Not me. I lost my temper and got kicked off another site bashing the pick of long.I am trying so hard to keep it in check.

"NJFINSFAN1 wrote:

I agree, that was a the biggest mistake we made, not Long over Ryan.

I think if saban drafted rodgers he would still be here and we would have a contender.This makes me sick more than ryan because I think rodgers will take over as the best qb in the league within the next few years.

"jetssuck wrote:

Well you could say the same thing concerning Rodgers, in fact even more so as Ryan wasn't a project like Rodgers....Ryan played day one and Rodgers rode the pine for years behind Favre. Had Rodgers started day one it's likely he'd be just another David Carr

Not to mention Rodgers was no where near being rated a top 5 guy like Ryan or Brown for that matter....

Actually under the scenario I laid out you have Rodgers AND Long.

And regarding Ryan, he was coming off a senior year in which he threw 20 interceptions compared with only 22 TD's. He was labeled and probably rightfully so at that time as a player who tries to do too much. Has he fixed that? Most definitely, yes. But would he have been able to fix that with Brown/Williams/Bess/Cammy/Ginn those first two years instead of Turner? The answer is no. Turner has 1700 yards in 08. The team goes to the playoffs. Turner gets hurt in 09, misses half the year and the team goes 7-9. Ryan has become a good QB but people miss the boat on one key stat...When Turner gets 100 yards, they dont lose. Ever. Had Ryan or Rodgers started from day one here theyd both likely be the next David Carr.

"pennphinfan wrote:

but this is my point really. using hindsight for all these what if's is ridiculous. Not sure why people can't just let it go. We got an elite LT. Now we need a QB. Look towards the future, not the past. optimism, people!

The problem is when you are going to be that high up in the draft to get an elite qb you have to take him.We blew it two times in the last 5 years and look where we are now coming off of two straight 7-9 seasons.Jake long is great but the most important postion on the field is qb.Without one unless you have the ravens defence or the raiders playbook like gruden had you are not winning **** as the jets are going to find out on sunday.

"Boik14 wrote:

Actually under the scenario I laid out you have Rodgers AND Long.

And regarding Ryan, he was coming off a senior year in which he threw 20 interceptions compared with only 22 TD's. He was labeled and probably rightfully so at that time as a player who tries to do too much. Has he fixed that? Most definitely, yes. But would he have been able to fix that with Brown/Williams/Bess/Cammy/Ginn those first two years instead of Turner? The answer is no. Turner has 1700 yards in 08. The team goes to the playoffs. Turner gets hurt in 09, misses half the year and the team goes 7-9. Ryan has become a good QB but people miss the boat on one key stat...When Turner gets 100 yards, they dont lose. Ever. Had Ryan or Rodgers started from day one here theyd both likely be the next David Carr.

Ryan was surrounded by no one at BC and that's why he had that label, he had no choice but to try and do too much...... but he was also highly regarded as a guy that was ready to start on day one..... Rodgers was a project and Saban was not going in that direction.

And of course a running game helps....goes without saying. Doesn't take away from the fact that that team was built the proper way...... and that is around the QB position

And you can't just say you'd have Rodgers and Long....... because who knows what draft slot we would have been in. Rodgers may or may not have altered that...

As Ozzy said...... that was part of that bad timing/luck for us. We had the #2 pick in a draft that was light in the top ten....

"pumpdogs wrote:

I think if saban drafted rodgers he would still be here and we would have a contender.This makes me sick more than ryan because I think rodgers will take over as the best qb in the league within the next few years.

Come on man.

He sat behind a Hall of Famer for 3 full years learning the intricacies of his position and then went 6-10 in his 1st full year as a starter.

my fist pump goes to Jake Long for playing through the injuries.... stayed on field. No one talks about that.
Ryan would have been the better choice but we were building inside out.

"jetssuck wrote:

Ryan was surrounded by no one at BC and that's why he had that label, he had no choice but to try and do too much...... but he was also highly regarded as a guy that was ready to start on day one..... Rodgers was a project and Saban was not going in that direction.

And of course a running game helps....goes without saying. Doesn't take away from the fact that that team was built the proper way...... and that is around the QB position

And you can't just say you'd have Rodgers and Long....... because who knows what draft slot we would have been in. Rodgers may or may not have altered that...

As Ozzy said...... that was part of that bad timing/luck for us. We had the #2 pick in a draft that was light in the top ten....

That Ryan was surrounded by no one is a myth. Skill positions were questionable but both James Marten and Gosder Cherilus were first day picks in rounds three and one. Gunnell at WR did make a practice squad as well.

That Saban wasnt going in that direction was an oversight on his own behalf. Its been discussed in Club the importance of the QB position but the only things as important as the QB are the player protecting the QB's blindside and the guy attacking the QB. He felt he could win with Gus Frerotte and thats all we need to know about how he felt about the QB position. Clearly, he understated the importance. Instead he decided to go with...wait for it...sure thing....Jason Allen. Ugh.

Matt Ryan is OVERRATED!

He has White and Gonzalez to throw to, Turner running the ball to set up the pass, yet Ryan averaged only 6.49 yards per attempt. Check-down Chad had 6.74 ypa with not nearly the offensive talent around him. The NFC South got to play against the NFC West. Every time a division gets to play against the NFC West the division and players looks a lot better than they are.

"smahtaz wrote:

He sat behind a Hall of Famer for 3 full years learning the intricacies of his position and then went 6-10 in his 1st full year as a starter.

If sitting behind Favre for three years taught Rodgers anything, it was that throwing interceptions in playoff games kills seasons.

"Boik14 wrote:

That Ryan was surrounded by no one is a myth. Skill positions were questionable but both James Marten and Gosder Cherilus were first day picks in rounds three and one. Gunnell at WR did make a practice squad as well.

That Saban wasnt going in that direction was an oversight on his own behalf. Its been discussed in Club the importance of the QB position but the only things as important as the QB are the player protecting the QB's blindside and the guy attacking the QB. He felt he could win with Gus Frerotte and thats all we need to know about how he felt about the QB position. Clearly, he understated the importance. Instead he decided to go with...wait for it...sure thing....Jason Allen. Ugh.

Disagree with that myth thing...... he had no one that could get separation and was constantly forced to throw into tight windows.... he had very little to nothing as far as play makers.

And yeah.....Saban was an idiot. He lost me off the bandwagon the minute he signed Culpepper. I was literally chased off another forum for suggesting he was clueless in regards to the QB position. Well that and my cheery disposition;]

"byroan wrote:

Honestly? I'd have rather taken Aaron Rodgers instead of Ronnie Brown and I was a huge Brown fan in the draft.

Come on Allen...I can say with certainty that Jake Long will be (I am sure of it) in the Hall of Fame and Ryan...won't...

BUT..The QUARTERBACK would have lead to more wins......

"jetssuck wrote:

Wanny couldn't solve the QB issue..... HC career in the NFL over

Saban couldn't solve the QB issue..... HC career in the NFL over

Cameron couldn't solve the QB issue..... HC career in the NFL over

Sparano couldn't solve the QB issue..... HC career in the NFL hanging on by a thread and if he doesn't solve it this year.....over

Left Tackles don't lead teams to SB's....... QB's very often do

Pretty clear, yet many will refute it.

"Muck wrote:

Nobody's saying Jake ain't great. Nobody. It's just that quarterback is the more important position and the toughest position to fill.

Without a really good QB, you have to be so overwhelmingly good in other areas to even have a chance at going to the dance.

And even then, you can get mowed down by New England 45-3 because their QB will slice you up like a surgeon.

Give me a top QB any day of the week. Easily the most important position on the field.

Bill Walsh agrees. But what does he know.

"jetssuck wrote:

Well you could say the same thing concerning Rodgers, in fact even more so as Ryan wasn't a project like Rodgers....Ryan played day one and Rodgers rode the pine for years behind Favre. Had Rodgers started day one it's likely he'd be just another David Carr

Not to mention Rodgers was no where near being rated a top 5 guy like Ryan or Brown for that matter....

He was the highest ratted QB on most draft boards along with Alex Smith

"Bpk wrote:

Bill Walsh agrees. But what does he know.

Really? Where was Steve Deberg drafted by the 49ers previous regime? Then where was Montana drafted? It was the same situation as NE had with Bledsoe and Brady. Montana coming out of ND was not highly touted as the next greatest ever or even a good QB. He liked what he saw out of him and got lucky and he admitted it. How many good to great QBs did Walsh draft?

But heres a what if with the Long/Ryan what IF debate....

IF we drafted Ryan do we still go after Pennington in FA? Yes we needed a vet QB.
IF Pennington is the starting QB with no stability at LT does he stay healthy and we still go 11-5?
IF Ryan doesn't have his rookie year to play where in his development is he without the weapons he has in ATL?
IF we don't have solid play at LT does Ryan stay healthy himself.
IF we drafted Ryan would the fans at this point be calling him a bust because he isn't where THEY feel he should be? (most certainly)
IF Ebenezer Scrooge isn't a dick does he live a better life? (maybe Dolphin fans need three ghosts?)

Why do people want to even eat these cyanide pill threads every time they're posted? Start a thread when you fix the flux capacitor and can go back and do something about it, until then leave it in the rearview mirror.

Of course it was a mistake. I can't belive this is even an argument. I can only feel sorry for the people trying to convince themselves that it was somehow the right move. It wasn't. Matt Ryan is better than Chad Henne will ever be. But I know, he only looks that way because he was drafted into the greatest team in history and they already had a left tackle etc. etc.... But hey at least now we can be 7-9 with a hall of fame LT!!! Also my simple mind just can't comprehend how not taking a tackle at number one overall instantly equals 'no stability at LT'. Perhaps we could have drafted a tackle with one of our two second rounders that year. That number 33 pick we wasted on Merling I'm sure could have landed us somebody, maybe we could have even traded up a little if necessary.

Some of Matt Ryan's key weapons were acquired through FA. I'm talking specifically about Turner and Gonzales. So logically Miami could have went after both of them. They were not players Atlanta drafted or that were only available to the Falcons. Atlanta acquired these guys specifically to help bring their QB along. Let's stop acting like the Dolphins are just victims of circumstance or something. You make your own luck. The Dolphins FO could have done things the right way but decided to go against conventional wisdom and not make QB the top priority. They are now paying the price and so are we. Let's just all hope a good QB finds his way to Miami this offseason.

"smahtaz wrote:

Come on man.

He sat behind a Hall of Famer for 3 full years learning the intricacies of his position and then went 6-10 in his 1st full year as a starter.

Please,brett farve was asked if he was going to mentor rodgers and his responce was nobody mentored me why should i help him.Brett helps nobody but brett.
Our qb had a great mentor in chad pennington.