Bline just has problems staying healthy.

I like his game, but Knox v Hartline is no contest.

And being on the roster does not mean contributing at a high level, especially in playmaker positions.

 

Big Jake really should stick, we have cap space but in FA you never know how much $$$ another team will throw at a player.

Big picture, if we lose Jake and Bush we'd have logical replacements, but I really don't want to go back to drone football.

Now, the Draft is not the be all end all of player moves, Ireland does excel at finding guys who turn into the better players on our team, Wake, Starks, Bush etc.

 

Well now, for all the Ireland apologists who have been blaming the 2009 draft on the Tuna, what do you have to say now? :chuckle:

 

I don't think anyone was blaming Parcells for that draft.

 

If he means Yeremiah Bell, couldn't that be considered tampering (since Yeremiah signed with the Jets). That would be pretty effin' funny if Barry's intended flattery turns out to cost the Jets a pick, lol...

 

It depends on what side of the Ireland controversy you are on there is something in that blurb for everyone .Barry must be a politician .:lol:

Pouncey was my guy before the draft and he is the only Ireland pick that I agreed with when he made that pick besides Tanny .He is a beast and should get some All Pro interest soon.

 

It reads that it was in December 2011, so Bell was still a Dolphin and Sparano hadn't gone to the Jets yet.

 

That's a fairly loose definition of "good" DJ. Considering Clay Matthews and Hakeem Nicks were on the board, it makes the Vontae miss seem worse. This is compounded by the fact that Vontae had maturity issues. Shouldn't Ireland's search for the so-called "makeup" have brought those to light? I don't think lumping in a recouped 2nd roud pick for Vontae Davis helps out the 2009 class any. 2013 yes, but for 2009, it's a loss as the player is gone and that pick didn't do anything then.

With the three players coming out of the draft - you've got Sean Smith, who, let's face it, has been an average starter to this point. Chris Clemons probably shouldn't be starting at this point, but he is (not to re-hash other threads, but Earl Thomas and Reshad Jones would be really nice at S). Hartline's been decent so far, and I think he'll thrive in this system.

That being said, I could easily see a scenario where in 2 years time the only person left from the '09 class is Hartline.

 

I can say pretty safely it isn't true since Ireland himself said during this last draft that it was the second one he has run.

 

Pretty convenient for him to say that given the heat that was on him going into this past draft, huh? He's been pretty quick to shirk past mistakes throughout his tenure here.

 

Nothing. I've always said I liked the '09 draft outside of Parcells' Pat White pick followed by his hometown pick, John Nalbone. :tongue2:

 

I think you're forgetting that we had to walk away from that draft with at least one starting cornerback, and considering Parcells had Pat White pre-pegged as a pick, that didn't leave us much 1st round wiggle room.

 

I have used the Jordy Nelson and Brian Hartline comparison before

Jordy's first three years: 100 receptions, 1,268 yards, 6 TD
Brian's first three years: 109 receptions, 1,670 yards, 5 TD

In looking at the advanced stats: Jordy was targeted 184 times during his first three years and averaged 6.9 yards per target. That is a catch percentage of about 54%.

Brian was targeted 195 times and averaged 8.5 yards per target. That is a catch percentage of 56%.

What's interesting to me is that Jordy was targeted almost as much as Brian Hartline despite the fact that he was essentially Green Bay's 3rd/4th receiver in his first three years whereas Brian has essentially been Miami's 2nd/3rd receiver over the same time. It tells me a lot about how the previous coaching staff catered to a certain loud mouth prima donna wide receiver that Miami should have never traded for to begin with.

Brian has actually improved his catch percentage this year over his career numbers to this point, as he has caught 60% of the targeted passes his way. He is also averaging 8.1 yards per target, which is a little dip but will likely rise when he uses his sneaky speed to beat a defender on a double move for about 40 yards.

 

No, not at all. There were other CBs, such as Sean Smith, still out there if they had drafted someone instead of Vontae Davis. They still had Will Allen, who was coming off a pretty good 2008, on the roster as well. He even started the first few games over Vontae until he got hurt.

There were some other mid-round guys like Asher Allen, Ladarius Webb, Keenan Lewis, and Greg Toler drafted after Miami took Sean Smith as well.

 

He did not get a 2nd round pick walking out of that draft. He got a 2nd round pick in 2012 by getting rid of one of his players from 2009. It's not the same thing, unless you're going to consider the move as purely trading a 1st round pick for a 2nd and a 6th and pretend Vontae Davis was never in Miami...? Which is very odd.

And, I'd rate his players Hartline - good, Smith - average, Clemons - below average. I guess we'll agree to disagree there.

 

As JJ has said many times, Draft picks in the future are worth one round less than a current round pick.

 

I like how we're labeled as apologists, as if there was something the GM should be sorry for. Better than to be on the other side with some of the most embarrassing fans in sports :tongue2:. I have defended Ireland on occasion, mainly because he's been made out to be the scapegoat of Parcells' regime, which is completely assinine. This isn't news that Ireland was running the drafts from day 1, not to anyone who's been paying attention. It was well documented that if Ireland & Co. counldn't get a deal done with Long before the draft, that Parcells wanted them to start talks with Chris Long. This recent report is just another attempt to stir the pot, to keep the witch hunt alive. Feed the wolves, as we say.

As long as he keeps getting all the blame for the team trading away marshall and vontae... Ireland's critics aren't even worth trying to reason with. In those scenarios the player and coaches make the decision(s).... and it's the GMs job to respond and react to them.

 

It tells me that the previous staff attempted to get the ball to one of their only playmakers.

Hartline still can't create plays, and the scattering of attempted Jordy Nelson comparisons I'm starting to see are off-base, IMO. Nelson makes plays. Hartline has to be led to the play.

 

I think the value added in 2009, was signing Cameron Wake.

But, you can't go back in time and try and say the 2009 draft has added value - that's essentially saying that Ireland traded a 1st round pick for a 2nd and a 6th, and then didn't draft anyone with those picks.

Ireland has added value to the 2013 draft class via the Vontae Davis trade and the Brandon Marshall trade. Now, does he get maximum value by getting two players out of the upcoming class with the talent of Davis and Marshall? If he does, that's when you consider those trades wins, IMO. If he comes out of those first 5 picks with say, 3 of the following: Alex Okafor, Dee Milliner, Tony Jefferson, Cornellius Carradine, Terry Hawthorne, and a take your pick at WR, I'd be pretty happy with that haul.

 

You're right, defenders would have been a better choice of words.

The opposite has been argued quite a lot in various threads here, as for the 2008-2010 drafts. Various quotes from various links offered as proof.

Yeah, he does get the credit/blame for trading Davis. It's his call. He is the GM.

What happened to your comment about the 2009 draft being pretty damn good anyway? Before I could respond, it seemed to vanish.

 

That's true, but there was no way of knowing Sean Smith would've been there in the late 2nd round.

I wanted Hakeem Nicks badly, but there was no way we could be in a division with Tom Brady and go into the draft with 1 corner and then blow off the position with the hopes of finding a legitimate starter in the mid rounds. No one expected Ladarius Webb to become the player he is or else he would've been a 1st round pick. Asher Allen has retired. Keenan Lewis has started 3 games, which wouldn't have done us any good in '09, and Greg Toler has no stats in the past 2 years.

We didn't have the benefit of hindsight during the draft, and considering there are 31 other teams fighting for top players, we simply couldn't take for granted we'll get one of the guys we want if we pass on a top talent in the 1st round. All we knew during our pick was a top 15 talent was still on the board at a position of great need. Besides, our offensive coordinator was Dan Henning, and the blue print for the team was Bill Parcells', even if Ireland was in charge of the draft. I don't think Hakeem Nicks would've factored into Henning's offense.