GBN 2 round mock 12/9/10

I'd rather NE get Gabe Carimi than Anthony Castonzo or Derrek Sherrod.

If Foles declares and we draft him I will be extremely happy. Best possible draft scenario if you ask me. My second choice if Foles stays in school is to shake things up and draft Cam Newton.

I wish we didn't need to draft a QB because there are so many players I hate to pass up! For example in this mock we could draft:

RB Mark Ingram or LaMichael James
WR Michael Floyd, Jon Baldwin, or Ryan Broyles
OL Derek Sherrod, Gabe Carimi, Rodney Hudson, or Stefan Wisniewski
TE Kyle Rudolph
OLB Ryan Kerrigan, Akeem Ayers, or Jeremy Beal
ILB Greg Jones or Quan Sturdivant
CB Ras-I Dowling
S DeAndre McDaniel

After watching a few of his games, I'd be pretty happy with Foles if they go away from Henne. If indeed they do decide to move on from Henne, I hope Foles comes out either way though because it just adds to the pool of good QB prospects and should make it easier to get one. If the Dolphins decide to give Henne another shot, at this point I'd like to see Ryan Williams or Ingram.

I think it's difficult getting a team together to challenge New England without a QB. You have to have one. Chances are they'll look for one in the draft and sign a RB in FA, perhaps Bradshaw as mentioned by a few others and maybe even a guy in the third round.

Bradshaw has had some issues with his character before and he's not exactly a secure ball carrier.

"alen1 wrote:

Bradshaw has had some issues with his character before and he's not exactly a secure ball carrier.

I'd prefer DeAngelo Williams if possible.

$$$.

Williams' health scares me a little bit. I wouldn't be against him necessarily, it's just something that would make me think about it especially with the money he'd cost. First and foremost they should target Mankins though. If they're gong to spend big on someone, that's who I want to spend big on.

Well, if the Texans let Owen Daniels walk, he would be my priority FA, as for the mock, no thanks.

At least not yet, Henne has 4 games to go and to me, the Oline is our problem aside from the Qb position.

I look at the Defense and barring injuries will look solid, I look at the offense and think the Oline needs work, I look at St and have to wonder if a kick off specialist may be in order.

Perhaps you take Devlin late first round (if he shows well etc as Flacco did) and with the 2nd or 3rd that you grab you can add two playmakers at RB to help you out, perhaps Kendricks at TE/H-Back. I think the most important decision will be where they go with a QB. I just don't think you can easily assemble a team capable of carrying a mediocre QB.

I can only imagine how good the Jets would be with Tom Brady or even Matt Schaub for that matter. Padre the talent is set up well though for next year with the whole team. I would love to see a backup NT, an OLB prospect as we've mentioned, and perhaps an ILB if Misi does not move there. On offense though if you really look at it. You have the makings of something there too. A healthy Carey, Mankins, and perhaps even keeping the status quo plus a young RB or two, a #2 TE, and a 4th WR and you're there. It all revolves around the issue of a QB though. Beating those top teams requires a much better one than Miami has.

Kendricks is a good player. Big fan of his for a while now.

"padre31 wrote:

Well, if the Texans let Owen Daniels walk, he would be my priority FA, as for the mock, no thanks.

At least not yet, Henne has 4 games to go and to me, the Oline is our problem aside from the Qb position.

I look at the Defense and barring injuries will look solid, I look at the offense and think the Oline needs work, I look at St and have to wonder if a kick off specialist may be in order.

I agree Henne has 4 more games and should not be left for dead quite yet, but if they determine after the season that he isn't the guy and you can't find a good veteran option (which you probably won't) then QB has to be the #1 priority in the draft. The line needs work, but you have a much better chance of getting a good lineman later in the draft than you do of getting a good QB and QB is the more important position.

"Jaj wrote:

Perhaps you take Devlin late first round (if he shows well etc as Flacco did) and with the 2nd or 3rd that you grab you can add two playmakers at RB to help you out, perhaps Kendricks at TE/H-Back. I think the most important decision will be where they go with a QB. I just don't think you can easily assemble a team capable of carrying a mediocre QB.

And there is the problem the way I see it, too many holes on offense to plug in a single draft barring hitting on every pick and that rarely happens.

Think about it, 4 legit holes on offense, at least two on the Oline, and a lack of speed throughout, but a Wr corps that really has no room to add anyone, that means either Te or Running back (?) have to be added to upgrade the speed threats.

Now, how about making an offer on the Texans Steve Slaton? Arian Foster is cemented into the #1 Rb role and Slaton has clearly fallen out of favor.

I can only imagine how good the Jets would be with Tom Brady or even Matt Schaub for that matter. Padre the talent is set up well though for next year with the whole team. I would love to see a backup NT, an OLB prospect as we've mentioned, and perhaps an ILB if Misi does not move there. On offense though if you really look at it. You have the makings of something there too. A healthy Carey, Mankins, and perhaps even keeping the status quo plus a young RB or two, a #2 TE, and a 4th WR and you're there. It all revolves around the issue of a QB though. Beating those top teams requires a much better one than Miami has.

That assumes they allow Mankins to walk which I do not think they will as they went through gyrations to control Matt Cassell until they could line up a trade, even slapping the "franchise" tag on him, which BTW does the player no good as they are not paid out of season.

Agree that the Defense needs better depth at OLB, but also would like to save premium draft picks to upgrade the offense and that (imho) means FA's like Phil Hunt and Shawne Merriman, though Merriman is likely only to sign where he knows he can be a starter.

"sports24/7 wrote:

I agree Henne has 4 more games and should not be left for dead quite yet, but if they determine after the season that he isn't the guy and you can't find a good veteran option (which you probably won't) then QB has to be the #1 priority in the draft. The line needs work, but you have a much better chance of getting a good lineman later in the draft than you do of getting a good QB and QB is the more important position.

Well, I call it the "Pennington Dilemma" meaning the offense "needs" a Chad Pennington type of veteran, unless Henne shows he can do more, so which Vet Qb that will be on the market would fit that template?

That is why Carson Palmer came to mind as there just aren't the guys out there unless they wish to recycle a Qb like McCown or Rattay, develop a rook Qb, or trade for a guy like Kolb (whom I don't like as a Qb).

Or make a play for Kyle Orton who is on a 1 yr, 8 million dollar deal:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15843976

I like Orton's game, would not complain if he landed in Miami as I see some Drew Brees in him.

See, but if the ultimate goal is a Super Bowl, you need more than a "Chad Pennington type" IMO. Palmer and Orton might be okay fill-ins that can win games and take this team to the playoffs, which is fine in the short term. But if that's the case I still think they need to be grooming a young QB to take over eventually. Also, I'm not sure how realistic it is to think we can get either of those guys, and after those guys the talent level really drops off. I just think if indeed Henne is deemed to be "not the guy" then it's time for this franchise to really invest in a top flight QB. It hasn't happened in my lifetime, and the last time they did it payed off pretty well. And IMO, this is the draft class to do it.

"sports24/7 wrote:

See, but if the ultimate goal is a Super Bowl, you need more than a "Chad Pennington type" IMO. Palmer and Orton might be okay fill-ins that can win games and take this team to the playoffs, which is fine in the short term. But if that's the case I still think they need to be grooming a young QB to take over eventually. Also, I'm not sure how realistic it is to think we can get either of those guys, and after those guys the talent level really drops off. I just think if indeed Henne is deemed to be "not the guy" then it's time for this franchise to really invest in a top flight QB. It hasn't happened in my lifetime, and the last time they did it payed off pretty well. And IMO, this is the draft class to do it.

Hmm, Orton could, imho, moreso than Palmer.

And "franchise" Qb is really a chicken or egg thing, Brees was not considered a Franchise Qb as the Saints were an average team for most of his time in NOLA, Ben R won as a young Qb with dreadful play at the Qb position in that Super Bowl.

Matt Hasselback has been considered "good" but never considered "great" even though he led the Seachickens to the Super Bowl.

"padre31 wrote:

And there is the problem the way I see it, too many holes on offense to plug in a single draft barring hitting on every pick and that rarely happens.

Think about it, 4 legit holes on offense, at least two on the Oline, and a lack of speed throughout, but a Wr corps that really has no room to add anyone, that means either Te or Running back (?) have to be added to upgrade the speed threats.

Now, how about making an offer on the Texans Steve Slaton? Arian Foster is cemented into the #1 Rb role and Slaton has clearly fallen out of favor.

I would love to have Slaton. And considering they just drafted Ben Tate in the second round, Slaton should be available.

I actually think Palmer has a better chance than Orton because he once was very good and there's still a chance (as slim as it may be) he could maybe regain that. To me Orton is a very solid QB in a very good system.

For me "franchise QB" is not just the Bradys, Payton Mannings, Drew Brees, and Phillip Rivers of the world. I think guys like Eli Manning, Hasselbeck in his prime, and Palmer in his prime all classify as "franchise QBs". Drew Brees had been to

Under that line of thinking Hasselbeck was a franchise QB and had been to multiple Pro Bowls. Brees IMO fits anyone's description of a franchise QB even before the Super Bowl year. Before that year he'd already been selected to 4 Pro Bowls, was a two time All-Pro selection, and won a Offensive POY award.

"sports24/7 wrote:

I actually think Palmer has a better chance than Orton because he once was very good and there's still a chance (as slim as it may be) he could maybe regain that. To me Orton is a very solid QB in a very good system.

For me "franchise QB" is not just the Bradys, Payton Mannings, Drew Brees, and Phillip Rivers of the world. I think guys like Eli Manning, Hasselbeck in his prime, and Palmer in his prime all classify as "franchise QBs". Drew Brees had been to

Under that line of thinking Hasselbeck was a franchise QB and had been to multiple Pro Bowls. Brees IMO fits anyone's description of a franchise QB even before the Super Bowl year. Before that year he'd already been selected to 4 Pro Bowls, was a two time All-Pro selection, and won a Offensive POY award.

"..as the team was mediocre for most of his time in NOLA.."

And it was, this is one the more addled minded things about "got to have a Franchise Qb", if the team does not win, what exactly does it matter?

Schaub is great down in Houston, the team sucks, do we just discard the team sucking because Schaub is good?

What do you figure Kyle Orton would look like on this year's team that's a question you ask yourself. I think with all the short, intermediate passing that this team does week in and week out plus Orton's better PA he would have been the ideal QB here. Also his much maligned deep ball isn't all that bad at least based on how high his passer rating is down the field. If you've got short to intermediate weapons on the football field, might as well have a quarterback that specializes in that. I like the fact that he has only six interceptions on a poor team. Most QBs force things. Orton doesn't. He's more accurate though in letting his guys make plays than Henne and even though Henne's arm is better I'm pretty convinced Kyle Orton wins that Browns game. If he really is available for just a third rounder you have to look at that. Perhaps trade down with your 1st get a 2, 3, and 4 and go on from there adding little pieces including a RB, a second TE, make a signing on the OL in free agency and perhaps you have a pretty strong team. It also doesn't do anything harmful as far as your long-term QB plans.

Of course one player isn't going make a team great. But there is no position where one player will make more of an impact than at QB. The Saints were a 3-13 team before Brees got there. The Texans just aren't a very good team. They have an awful defense. Of course Schaub isn't going to make them Super Bowl contenders on his own. But the Dolphins have what looks to be a defense that could become very good. They have talented players on offense. A franchise QB takes that kind of team to a whole other level. QB is the most important position in all of sports and very few people debate that. Until the Dolphins find a good one they'll never be Super Bowl contenders.

You're forgetting that we're a very talented team. That QB could very well be the missing piece, along with maybe a few other things but those missing things are not at the cornerstone positions of QB, LT, #1 WR, NT, #1 CB, etc... They can be acquired especially if you go for veterans that won't be overpaid.

I would look at Clinton Portis at season's end for example if I'm looking for a backup RB that can pass block very well. Small stuff. Orton's an interesting guy to be sure. Give him a strong ground based attack with guys like Marshall and what he'll do well. Orton plus an improved offensive line and another RB would probably be a pretty impressive offense. You have to admit he's one of the league's underrated quarterbacks and Brandon Lloyd? He's not exactly throwing to Brandon Marshall anymore but the two of them had a great rapport. Bess, Hartline, and Fasano they'd all benefit from an accurate passer.

You can probably win a championship with Kyle Orton as your quarterback and a strong supporting cast.

"Jaj wrote:

What do you figure Kyle Orton would look like on this year's team that's a question you ask yourself. I think with all the short, intermediate passing that this team does week in and week out plus Orton's better PA he would have been the ideal QB here. Also his much maligned deep ball isn't all that bad at least based on how high his passer rating is down the field. If you've got short to intermediate weapons on the football field, might as well have a quarterback that specializes in that. I like the fact that he has only six interceptions on a poor team. Most QBs force things. Orton doesn't. He's more accurate though in letting his guys make plays than Henne and even though Henne's arm is better I'm pretty convinced Kyle Orton wins that Browns game. If he really is available for just a third rounder you have to look at that. Perhaps trade down with your 1st get a 2, 3, and 4 and go on from there adding little pieces including a RB, a second TE, make a signing on the OL in free agency and perhaps you have a pretty strong team. It also doesn't do anything harmful as far as your long-term QB plans.

Thing is, new HC will want a Qb, they can easily decide to keep Orton rather than try to make a go of it with Tebow and Quinn, then again they could draft their guy as well and still keep Orton.

I had thought he re-upped with Denver, turns out it is a 1 yr, 8 million dollar deal.

Could be a number of things but chances are if it is really Kubiak or a WCO guy which I think it will be they'll go in the direction of a guy from that system. Orton for a year on a rebuilding team versus going with a new QB for a new HC? I see a trade coming. I think he's Chad Pennington part 2 for us, with a better arm, but perhaps a little less play-making skill.