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GDT; Dolphins Vs Eagles. Preseason GM 3

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Pennington's Limp Arm, Aug 27, 2022.

  1. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    had to be food poisoning didnt it?
     
  2. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I was rooting for him, but I dont see anyway he makes the team. I did see him blocking though on the one TD.
     
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  3. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Oh, okay....very cool. I didn't catch that. I agree with you though, the roster is just too darn talented at WR this season and there has to be some odd men out. I don't see Williams having a chance.

    On another note, does anyone know who the white kid was that caught a few passes in the 1st quarter? His name was something like "Cracarac"? Never saw him before and was surprised he was running with the 1's/2's. Is he a TE or a WR? Or a RB? I have no idea.
     
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  4. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    River Cracraft; was on the Niners roster last year. WR/KR
     
  5. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Seemed to be wide open a lot.
     
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  6. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    You could tell the way the entire roster cane out and pooped on the Eagles
     
  7. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I've never seen Tua throw it longer than 55 air yards in his entire career. If he had thrown it 60+ on that one to Tyreek it's a touchdown. Tyreek had to slow down and loop back to catch it, which is why he was tackled.
     
  8. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    There you go…. Now you have seen him throw it over 60 yards in the air.

    Thrown with his front lead leg on the 30. Caught inside the 10. And Hill made a small jump to catch it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2022
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  9. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    You would think Tua was secretly an axe murderer the way the media looks for any excuse to hate on him

     
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  10. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if Mac Jones will ever undergo this kind of scrutiny.

    Here’s hoping for a great year for Miami and a big season for Tua to silence the peanut galleries.
     
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  11. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    LOL, I basically made the same post the other day comparing Tannehill and Tua to Marino. News flash- they don't measure up to one of the greatest of all time.

    That's like saying everyone out there who competes in marathons is a complete loser if they can't beat Lance Armstrong's best times. It's just not the mentality to have here.
     
  12. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, he didn't even step into it. Not quite an arm throw, but he didn't use much energy lofting it that far.
     
  13. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I really rooted for him and wanted him to make the most of his chance. But he couldn't stay on the field. His TD against the Flats should have been a moment for him to turn around, but he got hurt on the play. I still hope he finds his way somewhere, but he has to stay healthy.
     
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  14. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  15. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    You know, I don’t know if it is your intent but here’s what I’m hearing when I read your post…

    Tua threw a 50 yard pass to Hill. So what if it was a huge yardage gain…so what if it was a first down…so what if he threw the ball down the field…it should have been a touchdown.

    Tua just sucks because he didn’t hit Hill in stride.

    Not sure if that is your intent but that’s what I hear.
     
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  16. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    That's the ultimate fall-back for some of his critics: Even if he makes a good play, he should have made a better one for a touchdown.
     
  17. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  18. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I've never once said Tua sucks. Sorry if it seems that way. I've always said he can be a good QB, just not great. Not being great doesn't mean he sucks. He lacks elite arm strength, durability, and football IQ too be great imo, but he can be a good starting QB in the NFL.

    The problem is in order to win Super Bowls, you will most likely need your QB to be great down the stretch, and I don't think Tua can do that.
     
  19. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Thoughts on this?

     
  20. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  21. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Well-Known Member

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    This has weirdly turned from a Tua V Herbert debate in the media into a Tua V Mahomes debate and I get it's because we now have Tyreek but it feels like a crazy conversation.
     
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  22. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Austin Jackson protecting Tua's blind side is a recipe for disaster.
     
  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Four thoughts:

    1. I can't stand when YouTubers say everything 3-5 times, over and over again, before getting to the footage. I don't love this guy and we traded words on his video from last week, LOL.

    2. He's right in evaluating Jackson. In those shuttle steps, every 2nd to 3rd movement is about 1 second. Jackson seals the edge 5 yards deep (probably at 2 seconds at that point) and then drives his block another 5 yards into the backfield (probably approaching the 4 second mark). That was easily a 4.5 to 5 second pocket, which is exceptional in the NFL.

    3. He's partially wrong in evaluating Tua. After five seconds in the pocket, it's probably time to get up field. And fans would love to see Tua tuck and go right since he knows that the edge rush should be circling around to the left. However, Tua is a lefty and he's going to roll to the left 9 times out of 10 hoping to extend the play. If he goes right, it almost has to be a run. Left keeps the deep pass open...any pass for that matter. Tough break, but you can't fully fault Tua for that. It was a coverage sack, which mean that the receivers are truly at fault.

    4. He's absolutely right, however, that Tua probably should have thrown that one away. If he stayed in the pocket for a 5th or 6th second, then he comes out of that down clean. But is that the typical expectation....we go from throwing in 2.1 seconds to 6.0? You can't sit in the pocket all day and expect good things to happen, the right call is to get upfield or throw it away. Tua just chose the wrong direction and if that's all we have to complain about when he posts a perfect passer rating (on four plays, LOL), then we're in pretty darn good shape.
     
  24. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Barry is a big Tua supporter.
     
  25. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Alright guys, give me your thoughts on this:

    It's the deep pass to Tyreek.



    Having seen the Dan O. vs ESPN debate on Tua's alleged under throw, are we sure that's what this is?

    The route appears to break in to become a sort of post route.
    That being the case there are, to my mind, a few possibilities.
    1. The in breaking cut was an adjustment by Tyreek to a bad Tua throw which should have been straight.
    2. The in breaking cut was the actual route.

    If 1, then end of story, not only is it under thrown but it's an errant pass that Tyreek converts into a massive gain.
    If 2 then we have some considerations.

    First, Tua throws this ball while Tyreek is still running straight, before he makes the cut.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but that likely means Tua is throwing to an agreed spot, right? Because Tyreek has to have point at which is make the cut inside.

    So if that's true then either Tua missed the intended target or Tyreek doesn't run the route exactly (or both).

    Now, we can't know what the plan was, but, my guess is that there would be a yard marker Tua is throwing to and one that Tyreek is going to run to. Right?

    Now, Tyreek starts to cut in right on the 35 yd line but there's a defender close by him.
    When the ball comes down Tyreek catches it low, he has to dive, and it's about the 28 yd. marker.
    Is it likely that the Tua is aiming for the 28 yd line and underthrows it, or he's aiming for the 30 yd line, on the hash marks, in which case it's the perfect height?

    If the ball was supposed to be caught on the 30 yard line, on the hash marks, then Tyreek is there but the ball isn't:

    upload_2022-8-30_11-38-19.png

    So Tyreek adjusts/waits and catches it a little further down, further in and lower to the ground:
    upload_2022-8-30_11-39-21.png

    The error here would then be a timing issue. Tua didn't give it enough speed to keep up with Tyreek.

    Alternatively, if Tyreek's route was modified at all that could also account for a mistimed arrival.

    When you consider this is a long throw, the timing on this has to be spot on. The difference between when Tyreek reaches the has to when he catches the ball is a fraction of a second, maybe 0.2 or less. Any variation in terms of velocity applied, route taken etc. could throw things off.

    Ultimately the pass was still very catchable with an adjustment from the receiver, and was in a safe spot, and it's hard to be grumpy about that.

    Tyreek's game speed might still be something Tua is adjusting to, and something he (and anyone) may still struggle with, if Tyreek starts at less than full and then hits the afterburners.

    TLDR - Tua is throwing to a spot. Tyreek gets to that spot before the ball does. So the ball isn't underthrown in terms of distance (like the commentators were suggesting). Instead, the timing is late/off either because Tua underestimated Tyreek, or because Tua couldn't throw it any harder, or because Tyreek didn't run the anticipated route exactly.

    Now, the Mahomes comparisons might actually be helpful here. No-one disputes Mahomes' arm strength or his ball placement. So, since he has also underthrown Hill, there's a clear case to be made for QBs, even the best QBs, mistiming Hill deep or Tyreek running deceptive routes.

    Either way, the idea that the problem was Tua not throwing the ball far enough looks like nonsense. No surprise that the analysts aren't really paying attention to the tape but the fact remains that these guys are leading international conversations. Do better ESPN.


    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2022
  26. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A few things to simplify this.

    1. Mahommes longest throw last year was 55 yards (I'm quoting that from what someone else posted here, which could be wrong. But it feels true.)

    2. Mahommes only went deep to Tyreek a handful of times and it was rarely by design. More often, it was a broken play, Mahommes did his evasion wizardry and chucked the ball while spinning sideways. These didn't hit a streaking Tyreek in stride either.

    3. As to points 1 and 2, we shouldn't be comparing Tua to Mahommes. He's a generational talent and will likely end up being one of the best ever. This isn't about who's better...it's about one of the best ever would launch the ball on a wing and a prayer to Tyreek because he knew that he'd catch it.

    4. Tyreek is the fastest WR in the NFL and it's not even close. Waddle is slow compared to Tyreek. So it's almost impossible to overthrow him and very easy to underthrow him.

    5. Tyreek has amazing hands and amazing ball-hounding ability. If it's in the air, he's going to find it and catch it the vast majority of the time. With that said, when Tyreek is talking about Tua being more accurate than Mahommes, he's not talking about this type of play since he doesn't run these intentional routes often. He's referring to those 3-5 yard quick slants where ball placement is everything in YAC.

    6. Now we can talk about the play. It was clearly schoolyard football, you go long and I'll throw it to you type of stuff. I think the route was "get open". I think the scheme was "catch it to shut the media's mouth". Then Tua launched it in the general vicinity for Tyreek to catch, but to the far side of the safety (and the CB too...but he was already toasted at that point and wasn't a factor).

    7. Was it underthrown? No, because it wasn't a defined route. Would it have been better 5 yards deeper? Sure. It would have been better if Tyreek simultaneously caught a beer in his other hand as well. But it wasn't the play call.

    8. Why'd Tua do that when it's not a common type of play for him? Because he had that much confidence that no matter what the defense did, Tyreek would come down with that ball. That's the important takeaway here- on their first drive together in Miami, on the very first throw, Tua trusted Tyreek enough to hunt down the ball and make the defense look stupid. That's literally everything in the game of football. it's even more glorious because half the world (including the entire Philly organization) knew it was coming as well.

    That's all I've got, but I'll bet Owe's car that I'm 100% right. This had nothing to do with ball placement or routes, and everything to do with, "Watch what's going to happen all year long from this weak-armed QB and his speedy new toy."
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2022
  27. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Well-Known Member

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    On the depth Mahomes threw last season, how much of that comes from the fact that everybody played 2 high against KC purposely to stop those deep balls.
     
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  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Good question- and there's not a realistic answer because we don't know. All I can say is that Tua/Tyreek beat that coverage on one play, one time, and it happened to be the first play of the game. It honestly means nothing...but somehow it feels like it means everything.
     
  29. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Only Tua can get this much debate on a 51 yard completion. Sheesh.
     
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  30. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Here are my impressions of the pass:
    1. It was an underthrow. With that being said, I think it's more because Hill outran the pass more than Tua didn't put the air under it that would normally be sufficient. The DB was right on Hill's butt, so Hill had the afterburners on. Even Tua said that it wasn't his best throw, but it was a good play thanks to where it was thrown and to whom it was thrown.
    2. I think people misunderstand the pass that would have resulted in a TD. Had Tua thrown the pass straight over Hill's shoulder, he would either have slowed down to catch it, stretched and lost his balance, or otherwise altered his speed/body position to give the DB a chance to catch him or break up the pass. I doubt (m)any QB(s) could have dropped it over his shoulder in a way that would have resuted in a score. The pass that would have led to a score would be one that had Hill break his route similar to the way he did, but 2-3 yards further out to the left. A straight-line pass was not going to result in a score, IMO.
    3. Anybody who's quibbling over it being a great play is just being a troll at this point. It's like watching Mike Vick or Lamar Jackson roll out of a pocket and run 35 yards for a score. Anybody can say the play wasn't designed, but only a nitpicker will prefer to gripe over the result than appreciate the effort that went into attaining it. Gutsy decision by both Tua and Hill. Validation for McDaniel in giving Tua the latitude to make that decision after he wasn't even permitted to change plays under the previous regime. And positive energy as we go into the season. What's not to like?
     
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  31. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    X gonna give it to you
     

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