This is a little on pennington and a little on the receivers. It's on Pennington cause without the threat of a deep pass, CBs and S's are all over our WRs and not giving them any sort of a cushion because they don't have to.

But it also has to do with Ginn, bess, and camarillos route running. When they go to make the catch, they don't do it in such a fashion that they plan on running after they catch it. What they should do is watch some tapes on Donald Driver. When Driver catches a pass, all hes ever thinking about is what he's gonna do after the catch. Now maybe our guys are just so afraid of dropping the pass and thats why they never worry about YAC, but theres no place on a team for 3 possession guys.

 

A couple of problems.

We check off way too much. On a 3rd and 8, attempt more 50 yard passes instead of always a 4 yard pass to a running back and then punting.

The routes that our WRs ran with Pennington were mostly curls and comebacks. It is hard to make extra yards after them. We need to have our WRs run more slants and routes that are moving up the field. Then if hit is stride they have a chance to take a 15 yard pass 50 yards.

It is like the pass that Camarillo caught to give us our only win 2 years ago.

 

Ginn needs to become a complete receiver. Enough excuses! Andrea Johnson has way more speed then Ginn and he can run every route. Ginn needs to catch the passes, especially the ones he has position on, he needs to look for yards after the catch not fall down or run out of bounds. He had 1yac after the catch against Indy, come on that is like 3 inches yac per catch. He needs to protect the ball, and finally make and maintain his blocks!

Enough excuses for Ginn, he needs to STEP UP! We sound like fools defending him saying "he runs great routes!", "Penny limits him because he can't throw deep". Number 1 receivers have no week spots in their game! Who is the last NFL receiver that could only run deep? Alvin Harper?

 

My thoughts exactly. The last pass I remember being caught in stride was Ronnie Brown to Anthony Fasano during the Wildcat debut last season.

 

hmm....YAC, what is that? I thought you were supposed to get tackled IF you catch the ball. That way we have more chances of getting stopped on 3rd down, and thus, more chances to show off our world class punting and kicking game. I'm not sure that scoring points quickly is a good idea. One good example....Darren Sproles. He had a 81 yard touchdown in a game where they LOST to the Ravens. Nuff said, big plays are bad.

 

I think you are on to something here. No need to go for it on 4th and short let's kick a field goal. Surely there is no way Manning can get into scoring position with only 43 seconds.

 

the thread:
GinnJr is just the 09 season from a bust
better get done what he was hired to do
time & excuses all have run out
he needs an awesome season to stay with the franchise
or will become trade bait by the end of the year
GoFish!

seen this dog & pony act before with Chambers who was infinitely better than GinnJr:deadhorse:

 

Anyone who thinks that our deep passing game is going to magically appear because Henne is now our QB has another thing coming... Remember that Henning is still calling the plays... Not that Ginn, Cammy and the rest aren't part of the problem, but with an inexperienced QB and Hennings' history as a play caller, do you really expect anything ??

 

Really? Ginn's just the new Dolfan whipping boy. We had Fiedler, hen Chambers, then Ronnie, now Ginn. Now Chambers was "infinitely better" than Ginn? Please. Ginn has had good games and bad. He's been clutch and he's been the goat. Course, he's in his third season, and his first season was basically nothing. He's played wih a QB who didn't stretch the field and play to Ginn's strengths, yet everyone blames Ginn for his "lack" of production?

Ronnie Brown should thank Ginn everyday for becoming the new whipping boy. Brown's criticisms were mostly unwarranted in the past, and if Ginn goes to another team, we'll be looking at him like we look at Welker...wishing we had him here.
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Ok, I'm disappointed with Ginn like the rest, but Andre Johnson does not have better speed than Ginn. He is bigger receiver and more polished, but not faster... YAC are a design of the play, for the most part not a result of some sort of athleticism by the WR. Ginn, like Chambers before him is our defacto #1 WR, by necessity not by ability. We do need to give him more time and we are all frustrated by the last two games, where he could have made difference...however, there is still considerable debate as to whether they were drops or misfires the QB...both games worth...

At any rate, Ginn needs to continue to step up. The lofty expectations for Ginn are based on his draft position, not by his ability or lack of ability and certainly there is no help from ANY other offensive position to aid in him 'breaking out'... Look at all our skilled positions and none are getting it done consistently. There is so much more blame to be put on Henning's play calling than anything that Ginn, Cammy, Brown, Williams or White are or are not doing...imo...

 

One thing at a time. Lets hit some nice deep passes, expand the defense, then we can talk about hitting some receivers in stride.

 

thats an excellent idea. get rid of our best WR. Have you been talking to Randy Mueller?

 

Comparing Ginn to Johnson is like comparing Darren Sporles to Brandon Jacobs.

Just because it is said a lot, doesn't mean it isn't true. Pennington DID limit Ginn. How can you expect to get YAC on comeback routes? Pennington just doesnt have the arm to fire a 20-30 yard post on the money. You get YAC by catching passes in stride. When you have to stop and then rebuild momentum, it's hard to make people miss.

Randy Moss?

 

Bottom line you cant JUST be fast in the NFL, everyone is fast in the NFL.

 

Gish...in this case "best wr" is a very subjective term to use.

Here is some good news for Teddy Ginn:

Pat Cobbs has been "okay" on kick returns, but 25yds for the longest return of the season is a bit lite in the stats category.

 

Yes but he has shown that he can beat people deep. He is very fast even by NFL standards.

 

True but to be an effective every game wideout thats not enough....

 

Of course not, so that's why he's improving his route running etc. as well. None of his 11 catches in game 2 were of the "burn" variety, which is a good sign.

 

This thread is about Ginn, not Bess, who is in fact our best receiver.

 

yeah i expect our deep game to magically appear :lol: henning has had passing offenses in the past and even though we're not going to turn into the greatest show on turf, play action passes were the deep routes are available will now be open. maybe not immediately but by the time we play the saints expect a serious deep game to develop. regardless of what the coaches say, the reason we had such a conservative passing gam was pennington. three games and you will see whats possible with a real arm

 

Thats not true. He is constantly open on his deep routes.

 

75% of Bess' catches are from screens... how is he our best receiver again?

 

That's what I said.

 

Because he can catch, he runs routes better, he moves the chains, he wouldn't go out of bounds short of the marker with nobody even close to him. I'll take that over Ginn's speed and rally killing drops. I hope Ginn picks it up but I don't have much confidence in him at this point. Right now if the ball HAS to be caught, give me Bess.

 

He moves the chains? We don't even sniff the Indy game without Ginn. Bess is a Wes Welker. Even with a career game your offense can be shut down. With the game on the line, and you need a 30 yard TD, are you still looking for Bess? You'll be looking for a long time, and by that time Henne will be on his ***. On the ground.

 

And you're looking for Ginn in that situation?......Why on earth would you do that?

He's a TD threat?

He said receiver, not TD threat or red zone threat......we don't currently have one of those.

But the most dependable WR on this team is currently Bess....

 

I guess because he the only one not dropping passes...:shifty:

 

You are correct.Been saying this for weeks on this very same board and can't get a response from anyone here.
I'm glad someone else can see the same pathetic pattern they call a passing game.
100 TY's :hi5:

 

agreed 100% you will not win alot of games if you call a passing play that cuts off the routes a few yards short of that third down marker

 

I guess I am because we looked for Ginn in that exact situation and we lost.

 

Find me a number one receiver who hasn't dropped a game winning pass.
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You're right, top receivers drop game changing passes all the time, that's why they are top receivers... wait a minute....

 

Um, is TO a game changer? He's dropped important balls. Is Moss a game changer? He's dropped important balls. Johnson? Dropped them. Ocho Cinco? Dropped them. Big time receivers drop balls. It's just part of the game. No one catches everything. To act like the great receivers don't drop important balls sometimes is just ignorant.
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Game 2.......... no show

New set of excuses please ..........................

 

Do you want him to fail? Just an honest question, because I think you do.

We really didn't have to pass the ball because our run game was off the wall. What do you want us to say?

 

if it doesnt bite when its a puppy, its never going to

 

Excuses for what? Henne had a pretty good game, he had moments early on of skittishness and the OL didn't do the best job of protecting him, but none of our WR's had what one would call a standout performance. We won, where is the issue? Our running game was able to dominate, why nitpick?

 

:lol: I guess people want everything in a game. The fact is we didn't need Ginn in the passing game because we never had to let it rip. Besides it was smart to play more of possession Receivers for Henne to work with.



But yeah Ginn is a bust because he didn't do anything today :rolleyes:

 

Ginn had a great game today.......
Henne's big arm and Ginn's speed....wow! The league should be very scared now.:sad: