We don't need a rebuild, just a coach. Next season after the epic collapse of the entire team, we will be back to 2007 with a coach and gm who will want "their guys" and a full rebuild. They will also probably want "their guy" at QB and ryan will be an after though, and I like ryan.

I don't think people fully appreciate how bad this philbin thing by Ross really is. Its going to kill us bad.

 

Teams rarely need rebuilding. Generally it is tweking and coaching anymore.

 

Exactly. It's hard to use the word "rebuild" when your QB just threw for 4000 yards, your RB went for almost 1100 and your primary WR had 10 TDs.

The Dolphins are 8-8. They probably need a new DC. They definitely need two competent Guards, a FS and some help toughening up the front-7.

"Rebuild" isn't a word that seems appropriate when you ask "what would I do to go about fixing this team?"

I'd say that for the first time in awhile, most of our problems are pretty fix-able, as weird as that sounds. :)

 

The two best players on the Dolphins are both on the wrong side of 30, and progressively played worse as the season went on. How exactly is that fixable?

 

He cant see it because he knows nothing about football, thats why hes constantly forming committees and councils and other useless groups for advice, and those groups are just laughing at the free money theyre getting from Ross.

 

Do not question the Ross. Because he has billions of dollars he must know better than everyone who has less, because money makes men very wise.


My two cents via iPhone.

 

Mornhinweg made a fool out of Coyle. He kept identifying the gaps Coyle left and taking advantage of them. On the first reverse, there was no backside containment. The passing was to the soft spots and gaps in the coverage. The defenders were in the wrong positions to succeed. Fire Coyle and you fix the defense.

 

IF you bring in a better DC.

I am curious to see what Ken Norton Jr could do.


My two cents via iPhone.

 

I'll share my thoughts--and keep in mind this is just one fans perspective--but here's my general synopsis:

Grimes isn't going anywhere. I don't see a need to panic in regards to his situation. He's a veteran player, yes, but his age isn't killing the defense to my eyes. When you look at the other side you have Davis and Taylor who both looked like players who would develop given more time--not ideal, but "trust-able" CBs who can contribute and develop their games to reliable levels with Finnegan gone and an increase in playing time. Do I want to add a veteran CB in the offseason at a reasonable price for security purposes? Yes, I've said that more than once.

Delmas and Wilson are FAs so our real problem in the secondary is at FS. Yes we need to continue to add CBs like all teams do but we honestly don't have anyone penciled in to play FS in 2015, which is a problem no one is talking about. To me, that seems like the obvious need in the secondary. Now before anyone starts to panic, we know that there are certainly Delmas-level players we could plug in with Free Agency coming up. We're not going to die because we have a hole but it's important we remember that position come April. If the BPA is a FS, we need to think about that position as a viable 1st round option.

I believe the real issue is with the front-7 though. I don't like picking on Wake but I've maintained all year that we have to make the tough decision and trade him while he's worthy of a top-75 pick. However, we need to cut Ellerbe and Wheeler so even if Jenkins, Jordan and Misi remain, we still need to pick up a real talent at LB which is one position I'd be scouting hard going into April. We had a real problem at LB all season so my gut instinct is that the biggest "lack" in this defense is the absence of a real play-making MLB who can set a tone and rack up tackles behind a pass-rushing D-line.

The other position I see issues with is DT. Starks is rotational at this point and Odrick is a question mark. I like Odrick as a player and I think the team needs to press a bit on re-signing him. Losing him to FA could force our hand in the draft which is a bad situation. We need a big body with some physical presence. I'm not advocating we go out and blow our entire wad on Suh or Fairley--I don't like big contracts (see Mike Wallace)--but we need to be looking to strengthen the front-7 in April no question.


Now, on the bright side, I don't see a ton of holes on the offensive side. We need to draft at least 1 Guard within the top 3-rounds in my opinion but outside of that, it's really WR we're hoping to upgrade and even that is something that isn't a given. We could very well wind up watching Hartline, Wallace, Clay, Sims and Landry next season. It could happen that way. My hope is that we find a big body WR who can play but if that player isn't out there we can't expect much change.


If I was a GM, I would consider the defensive issues to be a challenge but I wouldn't at any point say I'm "rebuilding the team."

Again, that's just the perspective I would take if things were all up to me.

 

Fully agree.

I'd look to create some monetary space by letting Gibson, Hartline, Ellerbe and Delmas go. Finnegan retires. Moreno only returns if cheap.

In FA I pursue Suh for DT (trade Starks if we get Suh and retain Odrick). Chris Harris at CB. Cecil Shorts at WR.

Having seen where the talent lies in the draft, I go big WR in round one (Possibly Jaelen Strong or K White). Second, third, fourth and fifth rounds are a mix of best available OG, MLB, NT type DT, FS. Sixth round I pick up a good value RB with some size and hands. Seventh round I go BPA with Special Teams ability too.


My two cents via iPhone.

 

You would have to ask Ross. Some coaches know how to get the most out of what they have, others are Joe Philbin.

 

I also wish I knew more about Jordan Tripp and Billy Turner and Terrance Fede.

The fact is, those 3 positions (MLB, OG and DT) are in fact the very positions we're complaining about now.

It could certainly be that some of the solutions are already on the roster, I don't know.

 

Is Philbin running so loose a ship that some of the players are getting away with not giving maximum effort, are not in top condition, or both?

 

I guess it's semantics, but it depends on what you mean by 'rebuild'. I think we are close enough to 'retool' rather than a full blown rebuild. Tanny and the much of the O is adequate, again with some 'retooling'. The D, wow...there's a lot to do there. Can it be done in one offseason ?? Who knows...

What we can't do is change Philbin. He is what he is. His personality is not geared towards being a successful NFL coach in today's NFL... He's too passive and in a lot of cases, down right stubborn.

Ross is a shrewd businessman and that sometimes gets in the way of his running an NFL team... I really think he decides on keeping or letting go certain staff members based on how much time they have left on their contracts... He got so befuddled by the Fat One with his guaranteed contract that he cant bear to pay off a coach or FO guy's contract and cut his 'on-field' losses... That might be great for the bottom line dollars, but it's horrible for most fans...

And as to fewer folks in the stands, that not where he really makes his money in the NFL. The bulk of their revenues are from those tv contracts, merchandizing and such... He can always 'fill' up the stands with individual gimmicks by game (freebie tickets, internet devices, etc)... Even given the missing revenue from tickets, it's just not the most important to Ross...

He is steadfastly against giving any head coaching candidate 'full autonomy', which is why we won't see Harbaugh here (well that and $8M a year from Michigan). That also keeps a lot of other good HC candidates from taking a job here. I don't have much of a problem with that, but he needs to find the right GM to make that work. Is Hickey that guy ?? Don't know yet, too soon to tell... Ireland was NOT that guy...

 

Stating that we are only a few players away is what we have been hearing for the past six years. In fact going into this season, we were told that this was the most talented roster this organization had put together in over a decade.

So considering this team had to lose their final two games of 2013 to lose out on a playoff spot. It only made sense that with an improved roster, this team would be better this year.

While certain elements of the offense certainly showed improvement. The total collapse of the defense late in the season exposed the severe lack of talent on this side of the ball.

Everyone on this forum can tell me that this team can be better next year by adding a few pieces. I just don't believe it. I think next year will be a giant step backwards for this team.

It is going to take a new head coach, better talent on defense and the OL, and a winning attitude to turn this team around. Unfortunately I just don't see those things happening in one off season and it certainly won't happen while Philbin is still the head coach of this team.

 

Don't misunderstand my point jw.

We're a few pieces away from being able to get over the hump of being consistently 8-8.

One thing that cannot be denied is that this team, for as long as I can remember, has always had a handful of starters at various spots who are terrible or simply terrible fits.

When I can look at this team and not find those kinds of players, I think we'll be Play-off caliber.

I'm not saying that puts us in the Super Bowl but if we address some of the glaring deficiencies, we have a better chance than we've had in decades.

 

This is where I'm worried. Keeping Philbin for one more year may complicate extending Tannehill.

 

When I look at the defense, I see an aging Grimes and Wake. Still probably the two best players on the defense, but not the players they have been in the past. I have to question how many more productive years we can get from either of these players.

The interior of the DL played terrible over the latter part of the season. Starks play this season was below average and I don't see him as someone who will be on the team next year. I have always viewed Odrick as a very average lineman and I hope they don't overpay him in an attempt to bring him back next year. Mitchell is okay, but certainly nothing great. We still don't know
if the young defensive linemen will be productive in the future or not.

Vernon for the second season in a row played very well in the beginning of the season, only to completely disappear toward the end of the season. He's young and maybe he will build the stamina to play well during the entire season, but right now, I have no idea whether he is a long term keeper or not. All I know is that the defense needs a lot more from him next year than it got from him this year.

At LB you have Jenkins and a lot of question marks, IMO. Ellerbe, Wheeler, and Misi are not the answer, that is for sure. Perhaps Jordan and McCain can step up next year and upgrade this unit, but right now this is a major area of need for this team. I would have no problem with them drafting a MLB, CB, DL, or a safety with their pick in the first round. These are all immediate areas of need for this defense.

In the secondary, you can build around Jones and that is about it. As I stated earlier, Grimes probably has a year or two left and he will have to be replaced. I have no faith in any of the young defensive backs and how Wilson still has a job in the NFL is a great mystery to me.

To to me this is a defense that needs a major overhaul and it is going to take more than one off season for that overhaul to take place.

Coyle is going to get most of the blame. While he may not be a good DC , the lack of overall talent on this defense would make it difficult for the greatest defensive coordinators in the history of the game to do much with this group of misfits.

 

I don't think we're looking at a rebuild. A re-load is appropriate I think. The offense is shaping up nicely. Need more depth along the OL. A redzone threat WR would be huge for us. A power back/short yardage grider too.

Defense is where the reload is much bigger project. You keep Grimes for his veteren presence, but you need big help there. Finnegan is done. Taylor and Davis aren't reliable. One for injury reasons, one for his play. You obviously need a replacement for Delmas as well given his current status, and injury history. You need OL help.. a starting caliber G, and depth.

You seriously, IMO have to look at Wake and evaluate him honestly. I think we're seeing a decline there. It's time to consider the next move after him. If he can fetch you alot on the market, maybe consider it as well.

You can work with Jenkins and Misi at LB, but then we need help there, a starter at MLB would be nice, and depth is necessary.

I think it's a reload, not a rebuild. You have pieces to work around and work with. One of the reasons I'd have loved a new head coach. There's talent here, that Philbin just isnt getting the best out of.

 

You know, I'm going to level with you on something. I wouldn't be against pushing the reset button on this defense either if I knew we could get a good coordinator and build something solid. We've been watching Odrick, Misi, Vernon, Jones and others for a long time and I think we all agree to some extent that they don't represent special talent. I spent the better portion of this season defending Philbin under the banner that we need to keep Lazor. I did not foresee this defense falling apart in the final 6 weeks the way it did. I don't know what the heck has happened under Kevin Coyle but it's entirely shifted the focus of the off-season at this point. I thought we'd be talking Guard and WR where as now those almost seem like luxury picks with the needs at FS, LB and DT.

I will be the first to say that sucks. There's no other way to put it. I just wish we had more of a warning.

It certainly puts us in a tough spot and I don't really know what to say other than let's try and make the best of a bad situation. I definitely want to keep Lazor around and I think the offense is probably 75% of the way there but quite honestly, you're not wrong in glancing over at the "rebuild" button on this defense.

The Odrick situation feels AN AWFUL LOT like all those Ireland off-seasons in which we were forced to sign someone in FA or draft according to need because we had a hole. Remember drafting Pouncey? That was TOTALLY a need-based pick. Remember drafting Vontae Davis and Sean Smith? We were double-dipping so we could guarantee a stater. Those weren't the best players on the board and they're all gone because they weren't that good either. I complained every single year that Sean Smith was the worst CB for our system. We needed quick hips and good speed and he was atrocious at getting turned around by quicker WRs. I'm glad Kansas City paid him. I'm sure glad the Dolphins didn't. He might seem solid from afar but I hated watching him give up plays each and every week. And then of course I'm supposed to be made at the coaches because Vontae is an immature PoS that didn't want to earn his paychecks and who showed up hungover. Sounds like a real quality specimen.

I think a lot of the guys I named above were the best of bad drafting. Misi isn't a horrible player but he's average, certainly not worthy of being considered one of the more valuable parts of our defense. I don't know what to say other than I hope our next DC, if we get one, instills some attitude and discipline in this defense.

At this point we need to bring in impact players. I don't care if he plays DT or MLB or FS. I think we need some better football players on defense.

I'm so f'ing sick of this team trotting out Jimmy Wilson onto the field and we don't talk about it.

Who knows? Maybe it is time that we address the lack of elite players on that side of the ball. Maybe we just roll with Lazor and Tannehill next season and hope to find some defensive gems in this draft.

 

I feel dirty saying this but I think Coyle goes and Ross needs to do whatever it takes to bring in Rex Ryan as DC. Hell, tell him that if Philbin ****s the bed again that the HC position is his. Let him evaluate the talent on D and recommend who stays and who goes. Follow that up with a defense heavy draft & FA getting players to fit his scheme while also trying to shore up the O line.

 

We'll call it Operation Mindcrime.

 

I agree with a lot of your post Greg but we just seem to not be able to draft correctly for both units. For many years, all we did was draft Defense and for the most part always had a Defense that kept the game close or in some cases,would close out the game for a victory. Of course,what happens,our offense falls by the wayside so we get in a new coach and they start drafting alot of offensive players without keeping an eye for the slackers on the Defense and replacing them when needed. Now,when we are a couple of decent lineman,Big,Fast,WR, AND RZ TE away from having a kick AZZ offense,the Defense just nose dives everywhere. WTF is going on here Ross? And the to top it all off we get that Philbin Cherry on the top...O.K. Ross,LISTEN UP, you can still right the ship by FIRING COYLE and do whatever it takes to get REX RYAN here to be our ASST. HEAD COACH and DC. Rex will get the Defense in the top 5 and we can finish our offensive needs in the draft as well as grabbing a couple of defensive stalwarts in the draft and as UDFA's.

 

Great album!

:guitar:

 

Ross.............K......I......S......S !!!!!!:rockon:

 

I've always been okay with firing Philbin if we could get a defensive-minded HC that would agree to keep Lazor on staff to work with Tannehill.

Rex would've been an ideal candidate. I wouldn't fault Ross at all for going back on his word and chasing after Rex.

I think he's exactly what this team needs in a lot of ways.

 

Rebuilding in the NFL involves starting an unproven quarterback. Any team that isn't doing that isn't rebuilding.

 

Agree with you. Our offense got 5 points/game better this season. We need to focus on defense and OG. We certainly could upgrade WR but I think we need to focus on shoring up the OL(you can find OG in the 2-5 rounds) and a tough yardage back on offense.

Defensively, LB, FS and DT. We need to hope and pray that Jordan develops into even a quality starter along with either Davis or Taylor.

 

we will suck for one more season, and then ross will fire philbin and we will see after that.

 

yes, yes and yes

 

Not going to happen. Ryan has made it clear that he is through being a DC. He will either be a head coach in the NFL for another team next year or he will be working at one of the networks next season.

 

The whole point of this decision by Ross, as dumb as it may prove to be, is to let the dust settle. Too many changes, too quickly (his own fault) to be able to do anything with any clarity except either ditch everyone and clean house or let the dust settle and go from there. Come what may he opted for the second choice. We may like it, we may not, but what it means is that unless the fans want to bust a blood vessel or go insane they, we, have to go with the flow, let the dust settle and ride this one out - because that's the nature of this decision. To put it more specifically, Ross' choice in this matter means two big things:

1. We must not look for any big changes apart from, maybe the DC. (And that's not guaranteed).
2. We must look to further evaluate how the current team and coaches can grow.

Those are the two major outflows of this decision, any other approach is futile. This is the team we have, Ross is letting the dust settle on it to see where it can go.

Knowing this, we can state some further definite facts:

1. We know better the glaring holes in this team. We know it, Philbin and Hickey know it. I think the massive black-hole that was the OL sucked light away from the other issues. Patching the OL allowed other issues to be come visible. Greater visibility is always a good thing. Tackling. LB, OL, secondary all have to be developed. We should hope for that.
2. The OL was a massive flaw last year. Hickey improved it but it is still not good and needs further work. For me this is still the single most significant part of the team. The OL is key to the run game as well the passing. If the OL improves then the offense improves. We should look for that.
3. The DL has talent. They can play. We know that. Even if they have under-performed it's better to have talent than not. If a new DC, or Coyle, can find the right scheme, find what's lacking, an unleash potential rather than hinder it then there is real reason for hope. We should look for that.
4. Knowing what you've got it always good. Knowing that you've got something good is even better. This season demonstrated that we have a number of solid working pieces as well as young talent. What this teams needs, as well as great starting talent is depth and a future. There is serviceable young talent on this team that will be around a little bit. We should look for the development of that talent.
Lamar Miller needed to step it up. Lamar Miller did step it up. Awesome. We have a serviceable running back. He's not enough, but he's a workable piece.
Juwuan James is looking like the real deal. We have a solid lineman.
Dion Jordan showed that he is ready and willing to contribute and has some real talent to bring to this team. That's definite.
Jarvis Landry showed serious spark, that's not going away any time soon.
Damien Williams flashed.
Clay proved to be reliable again and a real weapon.
Satele showed that he can be a reasonable back up at center. That's OL depth.
Reshad Jones is a decent player at the secondary, he's a workable piece.
Michael Thomas proved to be a quality addition.
Jelani Jenkins showed himself to be a solid tackler on a squad with real tackling problems. He's also a worthy name going forward.

Then there's more uncertain but potential hope.
Moreno showed his quality, if he can come back from injury and a second year a Moreno Miller tandem would be respectable.
Delmas was decent.
Jason Fox, in his starts, seemed to show he can add real depth to the OL.
Dion Sims flashed ability and that he might be worthy of adding real depth at TE.

I'll quit with the lists but the point is, the Dolphins have something, we know it. Ross' decision means that these are the guys we are looking to and we should now hope for further development. His decision declares that this is not a do-over year but a work in progress and that means we have to look at the reality of what we've got. And we've got some good news there.

[TABLE="class: toccolours"]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #008E97, colspan: 10"]Miami Dolphins roster

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[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Quarterbacks

• 8 Matt Moore
• 17 Ryan Tannehill

Running backs

• 23 Mike Gillislee
• 33 LaMichael James
• 26 Lamar Miller
• 28 Knowshon Moreno
• 30 Daniel Thomas
• 34 Damien Williams

Wide receivers

• 10 Brandon Gibson
• 82 Brian Hartline
• 83 Matt Hazel
• 14 Jarvis Landry RS
• 18 Rishard Matthews
• 11 Mike Wallace

Tight ends

• 42 Charles Clay FB
• 88 Arthur Lynch
• 85 Gerell Robinson
• 80 Dion Sims

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Offensive linemen

• 71 Branden Albert T
• 65 Sam Brenner C
• 67 Daryn Colledge G
• 74 Jason Fox T
• 75 Nate Garner G
• 70 Ja'Wuan James T
• 51 Mike Pouncey C
• 64 Samson Satele C
• 66 Shelley Smith G
• 63 Dallas Thomas G
• 77 Billy Turner G

Defensive linemen

• 62 Deandre Coleman DT
• 78 Terrence Fede DE
• 96 A. J. Francis DT
• 76 Anthony Johnson DT
• 95 Dion Jordan DE
• 73 Kamal Johnson DT
• 90 Earl Mitchell DT
• 98 Jared Odrick DT
• 79 Derrick Shelby DE
• 94 Randy Starks DT
• 50 Olivier Vernon DE
• 91 Cameron Wake DE

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Linebackers

• 59 Dannell Ellerbe LB
• 56 Jonathan Freeny OLB
• 53 Jelani Jenkins OLB
• 58 Chris McCain OLB
• 55 Koa Misi MLB
• 97 Kelvin Sheppard MLB
• 57 Jordan Tripp OLB
• 93 Jason Trusnik MLB
• 52 Philip Wheeler OLB

Defensive backs

• 35 Walt Aikens FS
• 29 Will Davis CB/S
• 25 Louis Delmas FS
• 24 Cortland Finnegan CB
• 21 Brent Grimes CB
• 36 T. J. Heath CB
• 38 Don Jones SS
• 20 Reshad Jones SS
• 44 Jordan Kovacs SS
• 37 Sammy Seamster CB
• 41 R. J. Stanford CB
• 22 Jamar Taylor CB
• 31 Michael Thomas FS
• 27 Jimmy Wilson CB/S

Special teams

• 92 John Denney LS
• 2 Brandon Fields P
• 9 Caleb Sturgis K

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[TD="bgcolor: #008E97"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Reserve lists

• Currently vacant

Unrestricted FAs
Restricted FAs
Exclusive-Rights FAs
Rookies in italics
Roster updated December 29, 2014
Depth Chart • Transactions
67 Active, 0 Inactive
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[/TABLE]

 

The only way we can affect this process is not to spend a dime. No season ticket purchases. No going to games. No buying Dolphins apparel. Let the renovated stadium with the awning and the new seats sit empty on Sundays. Show Mr. Ross that we will not buy his product unless he improves its quality.