Chad Pennigton will never be "cool", he doesn't run 4.5 40's, he doesn't have a rocket arm, he's kind of slow when he tries to run.
But in Dolphins history, how good of a season did he have last year?
Let's compare Penny to Griese:
Griese's "best' completion percentage was 63% in in 1978
Marino's best was 64.2% in 1984
Pennington's was 67.4% last season.
Griese's best TD to Int ratio was 19 to 9 in 1971
Marino's was 48 to 17 in 1984 (one of the all time best Qb seasons..ever)
Griese never averaged more then 200 ypg
Marino averaged 220 ypg at the end of his career
Pennington avg 228 last season.
Griese's best Qb rating was 87.8 in 1977
Marino's best Qb rating was 108.6 in 1984 (his career avg was 86.4%)
Pennington's was 97.4% last season.
A case can be made that Pennington played better then Bob Griese did on average, and last season he sniffed at Dan Marino's numbers for his career, but of course Marino threw for more yds and TD's on average, Marino was in a class by himself.
Marino's numbers
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MariDa00.htm
Bob Griese's numbers:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrieBo00.htm
C Pennington's numbers
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5047/career;_ylt=Ak._uJzzaTVQ6YMQve7SlAz.uLYF
As an aside, if one looks at Pennington's entire career numbers, he has been an efficient Qb throughout his career, his career Qb rating is actually higher then Dan Marino's.
Some Marino pron:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S0pz8qHpFY"]YouTube - Dan Marino[/ame]
Penny:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePTQaqrEdiw"]YouTube - miami dolphins -Chad Pennington[/ame]
They had ridden an unwanted quarterback to the AFC East crown...
BTW, if anyone wishes to relive the pain of the Qb wannabees since Dan Marino left and Pennington arrived:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z66BesV3Z7I&feature=related"]YouTube - Miami Dolphins starting qbs since dan marino 1999-2008[/ame]
Penny is funny if you listen to him.
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Pennington makes the most of his ability, he's a very good game manager and he doesn't turn the ball over very often. Although I still can't help but feel as though he's holding part of our offense back because of his limitations.
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Disagree with you L2G, perhaps we recall the NY Jets Pennington who had mixed results and not the Miami Dolphins Pennington?
As for hsi arm strength, I won't appeal to statistics on that simply because they can flatter to deceive, Penny had more 20+ yd completions then..so and so..
To me, if the West Coast offense can win Super Bowls and be effective via the short passing attack, why is Penny's game instantly disqualified from providng victories?DeDolfan, Disnardo, Xeticus and 1 other person like this. -
A good example of what I'm talking about can be found in the Bills game. The Bills McGee was hobbled and like any good team we tried to take advantage of that. On this play Ginn had McGee beaten, Penny threw the ball with all of his might and Ginn had to almost come to a complete stop and jump for the ball.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35fxXOXBrA8"]YouTube - Ted Ginn Jr. highlights vs bills[/ame]
Two things could have happened here.
1. If McGee had been 100%, he would have been able to break up the pass at the very least, at worst that's an INT, and maybe we don't even attempt it if McGee is healthy. We're not going to have the luxury of putting Ginn on a hobbled CB every week.
2. If we had a strong armed QB he would have been able to hit Ginn in stride and that would have gone for 6. This was the criticism that Penny had in NY, his long range passes are floaters (wounded ducks) and he doesn't have the capablity to make the deep passes on a consistent basis.
Now none of this suggests that Chad is a bad QB, it just highlights a flaw in his game and every NFL player has one. Penny's flaw just so happens to shorten our playbook a bit, those long pass attempts are replaced with short to mid range passes and Ginn has to adjust his game accordingly.
Hence, Penny handicaps our offense (deep game) :wink2:RickyNeverInhaled and Disnardo like this. -
Hmm..Cleo Lemon had a strong arm, so did Beck, C-Pepe, AJ Feeley, Gus Ferotte, yet the access to the "deep game" did not make Miami ("us") winners, not at all.
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The long ball not only adds a dangerous element to the offense, but it also stretches the field and keeps the defenses honest, which opens up alot of room for the running game to flourish. It's not just the deep passes on their own, it's the overall impact that they have on the offense. Being able to stretch the field can change things dramatically for every facet of the offense, that's something that we're lacking at the moment. -
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Or I could have said, "Deep passes add a dangerous element, also known as touchdowns". :tongue2:
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one brother, neither one is budging and your stubbornness ain't helping. :pointlol: -
The grass may look greener bro, but it isn't. -
This will all sort itself out over time. We should have gotten a quarterback who is accurate and has a strong arm before we got a speed receiver. If you look at it in those terms, then we should have gotten an offensive line before we got the quarterback. The teams decisions and choices have been so bad that the team had to be torn down before it was built from the bottom up. I think we are fortunate to have Pennington to guide the team while the young quarterback(s) are developed. He may not have the strong arm we have all missed since Marino left, (and I feel Marino spoiled us in that respect). I feel like Pennington makes up for his short comings with leadership, intellegence and accuracy. Just what this team needed at this time considering all of the terrible luck we have had with quarterbacks. There have been plenty of strong armed quarterbacks who were lacking in the other qualities so it could be worse but thats JMO.
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We get 1000X more from Penny than he costs us in terms of ability as a QB.
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Man... I hope Ginn take ANOTHER step in his progress as a receiver. KC Joyner was pointing out that Ginn's metrics already had him in the top 20 in the league.
I could see Ginn making a LOT of highlight reel plays this year. Add that to the Wildcat, and Ronnie Brown, and Pat White.. Man, this is a highlight reel offense.
Should be a "Jacked Up" hitting defense too with Wilson, Bell, Davis and the like in the secondary.Disnardo likes this. -
Yeah Pennington has a suspect arm. However his accuracy and efficiency are insane. If he had the strong arm to get with all his other gifts he'd be HoF'er easily. it would be nice if he had a stronger arm I'll take what he does offer us gladly. This is the most stability we've had at QB since Danny left. Other than Pennington all we can look back at in the last decade is such "greats" as Jay Fieldler and Daunte Culpepper. And those are the high points in our passing game.
We have a great thing going for us in Pennington. Sure he has his limitations but he's the best QB we've had in a decade. I can live with what we've got for the time being.Disnardo likes this. -
Why is it that when someone says.. correctly IMO, that Pennington's arm limits the offense, that everyone feels the need to go to war. In this thread, in the context of this discussion, it is simply an observation, not a condemnation. That statement can be true without it being an attack upon Penny, and what he brings. He is the consummate General. He doesn't have overwhelming force or talent in his surrounding arsenal, but he does have a quick mind, some very good skill sets, and a OC that knows how to use Penny's talents to "our" advantage.
I could not care less what the "stats" say, Pennington does not have a long ball game. How many times did he hit a "go route" in stride.. once? That doesn't mean he's a bad qb, it doesn't really mean anything other than what it is, a limitation. Penny has no dazzling long ball, but all his "other" skills render this "limitation" significantly less important.. He.. and our play calls, overcome this issue pretty smoothly. Like everyone else, I want to see the "bomb".. and we will.. but it will come at the expense (probably) of the turnover ratio.
Pennington's skill sets allow us to compete against teams with better talent and overcome them in a methodical mistake free way. Penny, on a 15 play drive, doesn't often wreck it with a bad decision in the red zone.. something we WILL see when a youngster steps up... it comes with the turf.
"I" am perfectly happy with Chad Pennington, and hope that "this" year is his best EVER. I hope our backups continue to improve and put "real" pressure on Penny to get it done, and that they will be ready when Penny goes down.. and it WILL happen. It will be then that we will get that razzle dazzle long ball.. and the associated bad decisions we have been wanting.
I see all this as a good thing. Penny has taken us places that we hardly dreamed possible after 1-15. Ted Ginn has been forced to learn how to work the underneath routes, something he may not have learned as well if all he is was "just" long ball receiver. We have discovered several very promising possession type receivers who's developement continues. A win/win across the board in my eyes.
Pennington is going to look pretty darned good this year with an improved oline, running game, and red zone targets... I can hardly wait. -
Pennington is not only our starter, the player-coach of our offense, he is an unheralded & unrecognized Franchise QB.
Penny is obviously at the top of his game & one of the best to captain a team in the NFL.
Chad returns in great physical condition & a healed shoulder.
No one is saying he has a rocket arm. He does not. However, he has a deep pass when his shoulder is healed & he has to to set his feet & throw. How often do you go deep? 10%, probably closer to 5% of the time. if the the deep pass were the ticket, many QB's that went undrafted would be in the NFL today. Griese's "best' completion percentage was 63% in in 1978. Marino's best was 64.2% in 1984 Pennington's was 67.4% last season. Think about it.
Every QB faces injury, every time he takes the field.
Two things:
1) he's healthy, has the Orca-5 in front of him, the Tandem from Hell to burn up the turf, WildCaPat to buy more time, an improved WR Corp, all these things bode well for the Pennington Renaissance & his longevity in the sport.
2) he's earned the right to compete for the big enchilada. he is our returning starter & will not go quietly into the night. he is a pro-bowl & franchise QB.
depending on this season, Pennington may very well prove to be our ticket to the SouperBowl in 2010.
Go Fish!:up: -
Well, thought out Padre...
I know it has come down to a conclusion that we cannot really threaten to strech the field with Penny. So there might be more to the FO plan's for this team...
Now they did not pick Ginn, so is he on the bubble when his contract runs out? Or they assume that Henne will be heir to the thrown, as he is learning from one of the most effecient QBs of all time? We know that Henne can throw hard and long, but we don't know the other intangibles...
I think we are overlooking that as the trade off...As L2G says, the offensive verticle threat is limited, but Chad's P's training of Chad H does not go un-noticed, or is it?
When all is said and done in a year or so, and Chad H is given the opportunity, with a pretty good Offensive team, he must produce, or else all what this FO has done in the past few years, will have had the same results as those over this past decade...
So IMO, Chad P is here as the teacher, if he helps us win a few more games, than that is the "icing on the cake"...like2god likes this. -
We had no effective threat of the passing game, their Defense was overwhelming, but that was in part of our OL, since we could not block efficiently for our run game, we had to put extra blockers in, and when that happens???
You guessed it, no spreading the Defense, and now you cannot achieve that element of surprise...That is what a great run Defense does to a not so good run Offense...like2god likes this. -
finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member
Its pretty amazing what Pennington did for us last year no question. We would have been picking in the top 5 or so if he hadn't been there last season. I think when people start questioning how far he can take us or if he limits our offense its because of performances like the one against the Ravens. Our team as a whole didn't perform very well but honestly Pennington looked helpless against them. I hope we can put together some more wrinkles to overcome the better defenses in the league but without a legit longball threat its going to be hard. Teams can stack against the run and push their defensive backfield closer to the line to take away the short game and we are pretty much screwed.
I think Pennington overcomes a lot of his short comings but he may not be able to beat the great defenses in the league in the playoffs. I hope I'm wrong about that. He's still far and away the best option we have this year and he deserves a ton of respect for what he did last season for us.padre31 likes this. -
Penningotn is a very accurate QB, efficient might be the better word, he does a great job with the tools that he has. Chad, a QB who hasn't been able to stay healthy throughout his career (played 16 games only twice in his 9 year career), a QB who has never thrown for more than 22 TD's in a season (he averages 11), a QB who before last year never threw for more than 3,300 yards (he averages less than 2,000 per season) is not in the same league as Marino. True injuries have slowed Penny down, but Marino dealt with injuries as well.
So as far as that stat goes, look at it this way. What would we have said to a Jets fan if they had come here 2 years ago and said....
"Griese's "best' completion percentage was 63% in in 1978. Marino's best was 64.2% in 1984 Pennington's was 67.4% last season. Think about it.".
We would have laughed them right off the board. I agree that Pennington is a very good game manager, that he does very good with the tools that God gave him, but my opinion of him hasn't changed one bit since he's put on the aqua and orange. He still has the same limitations that he had as a Jet and he is in no way comparible to Marino. The players are different, the offenses are different, and the success that they've found is different.
Marino put up his stats without a running game, teams knew that we weren't going to be able to run the ball down their throats and that we were going to try and beat them in the air, and Marino still broke almost every conceivable passing record. Pennington's abilities are limited, defenses dare him to beat them in the air and his numbers are...well...average. Penny is a dink and dunk QB, that's all he'll really ever be. It's easier to have a higher completion percentage when you are throwing short and mid range passes. He's a very good leader behind center, he plays his heart out, but he is what he is and that hasn't changed since he slipped on the Phins uni.
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And fundamentally, Ginn adjusts to the Qb, not the Qb adjusts to Ginn, when is the Maestro, the other a piccolo player, if Ginn is that talented it will show on the field no matter who is throwing him the ball.
As for packing the los, it's nothing new, I can recall Henning's Redskins offenses predicated on a single back and the opposing defense still could not stop them even when they knew a running play was coming.
As for the other side of the ledger, say Chad Henne, what guarantees he would be an improvement over Pennington?
And that is the question, the ability to throw a deep ball means little if they can't engineer drives and not turn the ball over. -
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To me Penny is a slight improvement over Fiedler, someone who might get us into the SB if we get lucky and play some good but not great defenses but simply not good enough to win it all. I really think Henne is going to get a shot to unseat Penny this year and I don't think he has to be as good as Penny but he will have to be close. Now that we went after receivers it would be a shame to waste the opportunity to stretch the field by starting Penny. We have new toys and I believe we will have a new QB to take advantage of them. I believe Parcells and company arr looking at next year as our SB run so it would make sense to give Henne his experience this year
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To me, we have ball control type of personnel, aside from Ginn and perhaps DMart, we really don't have the receivers for a vertical game even with the new Wr.
If we are going with ball control, Penny is our guy, but that also assumes the defense ups it's #15 ranking if we want more of a sideline to sideline deep outs, then it's Henne.
Fiedler was not in the same room as Pennington though Adamp, not statistically anyway. -
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I think another thing to keep in mind about Pennington is this is the first season he is coming back completely healthy in years, he is not heading into the season with ankle or shoulder issues, he may have a bit more strength in his throws this season, though even last year I didn't think his arm was as weak as some people had said it was. -
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I'm just not certain exactly what they are saying...:dunno:
As for Penny being Garcia, I can see that comparison, though Penny has a better feel for the passing game, he has better instincts and throws a better ball, and to me, Penny is more of a leader then Garcia is.
BTW, JeMarcus Russel is stinking up Raiders TC...quack quack...it's Duck season on the west coast...:) Garcia may be the guy for them...at 52 yrs old -
Its interesting to me but I don't think we have any weak links on our team any more. Maybe ILB but I think we might have someone step up this year. Maybe torbor. Next year its all about adding play makers and difference makers
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To me, the unit that will be interesting to watch, especially early, is our Special Teams, they were woeful up until week 9 or so, I hope we are ahead of the curve this season. -
Solai caused a fumble against the ravens in the wild card game. I thought he came on last year. We'll need to get a younger version of porter and ferguson next year but we should be fine this yr
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Agree on the special teams
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As for Pennington and the offense, right now if we went four wide, who would those four Wr be? -
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I'm not as familiar with Henning's past, but that's an isolated example. Look at what happened last year against the Ravens as someone already pointed out, or even with Ronnie's first few years in the league. When you don't have a good OL and you don't have a deep passing game, the running game has an uphill battle on their hands.
As far as Henne, there is nothing that says he would be an improvement, not until we can see him out on the field. Even if we saw him display a big arm in practice, opposing defenses aren't going to respect him until he can beat them out on the field. When I talk about a strong armed QB opening up our offense, I'm talking in a general sense, I'm not trying to imply that Henne is the better of the two. He's the next guy in line, so we'll have to see how he does. :wink2:
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