How should we attack this draft..Sexy vrs unsexy?

You've got to take the best players available if you can reasonably use them. I'm not sure who it really is on the list, but I'd prefer the team be in a position where it can fill whatever holes without having to spend picks.

Of those three options, I'd go with A personally. I think adding those weapons to Tannehill's arsenal improves the team and allows them to score 30 points or more in more than one game in 2014. If I knew Ja'Wuan James was the 3rd pick in that scenario after Cooks and Mason, then pull the trigger.

That said, I feel like their inclination may be towards what I'd consider option D:

C.J. Mosley or Ryan Shazier at 1 and then Morgan Moses at 2 and someone like C.J. Fiedorowicz at 3. I'm basing that off of them sniffing around Knowshon Moreno and the rumored meeting in Orlando with Maurice Jones-Drew's reps. If they sign one of those two, then I think RB takes a backseat to OL, LB, and probably another WR or TE.

Just for fun, if I were making a mock draft of Miami as things stand right now assuming no other free agents are signed before the draft:

1. Ryan Shazier
2. Morgan Moses
3. C.J. Fiedorowicz
4. Jeremy Hill
5. Caraun Reid
6. John Urshcel
7. - Traded to Baltimore -

I know that's pretty "meat and potatoes" but they all relatively fit needs.

I'd go with the fun, explosive A over the others, we've just not got enough players that are difference makers, plus I still reckon we can pick up one or two capable linemen later in the draft, and then sign a couple of the FA vets that are left to tide us over this season. I know the OL has got to be fixed, but I still struggle to see us doing it all in one offseason, and in the meantime I want us to add some playmakers to make watching this team fun again.

I don't think Zack Martin deserves to be in two of these options.

People are running away with this idea that he's an extremely safe football player...because I think that's the role they want him to play in their head.

But you really have to stop and think about this for a second. Zack Martin was a left tackle at Notre Dame. All but 2 games of his 51 game career came at left tackle for the Irish, with the other 2 games being right tackle way back in 2010 as a freshman.

But Zack Martin is not going to be the left tackle of the Miami Dolphins. The Dolphins just paid $26 million guaranteed money to the man that will be their left tackle.

So you're now looking at Zack Martin as a left guard or right tackle. Unless you've seen those 2 games of his at right tackle, you've never seen him play either position. And even if you've seen those 2 games he was just a freshman and they're practically meaningless.

You've never seen him play the position you want him to play in the pros...and this is supposed to be a SAFE pick for the Dolphins?

What exactly is safe about that? You've not seen him dig big defensive tackles out of a hole in drive blocking as a left guard. You've not seen him pull much on power plays. He's done it some, personally I don't believe he's looked all that great at it.

Here's the bottom line. Move the guy to left guard and you don't even know that he's any better than Shelley Smith, whom you bought off the bargain shelves during the latter stages of free agency.

Move the guy to right tackle and you don't know if he looks like a fish out of water because he prefers one side to the other.

Repeating the words for emphasis: YOU DON'T KNOW

Unknowns are the diametric opposite of safe when it comes to picking players in the draft.

I'm not picking on DJ or anyone in particular. This is a PLURAL sentiment that I see out there right now...that Zack Martin is this infinitely safe pick.

I just don't really know if that's true. JaWuan James is probably a safer pick for what Miami would want him to do. He's also a damn fine football player.

I think that C is a good choice. Skov is probably my second favorite MLB in the draft, and I think that OL is a necessity in the first two rounds. Without fixing the rest of the OL, 2014 is going to have a hard time being all that much better than 2013. Without better blocking, Tannehill, Wallace and the running game are all going to have a rough time getting to where they need to be. The team can go a lot of ways and make me happy, but I think that at a minimum a tackle or guard needs to be taken in the second round.

"ckparrothead wrote:

I don't think Zack Martin deserves to be in two of these options.

People are running away with this idea that he's an extremely safe football player...because I think that's the role they want him to play in their head.

But you really have to stop and think about this for a second. Zack Martin was a left tackle at Notre Dame. All but 2 games of his 51 game career came at left tackle for the Irish, with the other 2 games being right tackle way back in 2010 as a freshman.

But Zack Martin is not going to be the left tackle of the Miami Dolphins. The Dolphins just paid $26 million guaranteed money to the man that will be their left tackle.

So you're now looking at Zack Martin as a left guard or right tackle. Unless you've seen those 2 games of his at right tackle, you've never seen him play either position. And even if you've seen those 2 games he was just a freshman and they're practically meaningless.

You've never seen him play the position you want him to play in the pros...and this is supposed to be a SAFE pick for the Dolphins?

What exactly is safe about that? You've not seen him dig big defensive tackles out of a hole in drive blocking as a left guard. You've not seen him pull much on power plays. He's done it some, personally I don't believe he's looked all that great at it.

Here's the bottom line. Move the guy to left guard and you don't even know that he's any better than Shelley Smith, whom you bought off the bargain shelves during the latter stages of free agency.

Move the guy to right tackle and you don't know if he looks like a fish out of water because he prefers one side to the other.

Repeating the words for emphasis: YOU DON'T KNOW

Unknowns are the diametric opposite of safe when it comes to picking players in the draft.

I'm not picking on DJ or anyone in particular. This is a PLURAL sentiment that I see out there right now...that Zack Martin is this infinitely safe pick.

I just don't really know if that's true. JaWuan James is probably a safer pick for what Miami would want him to do. He's also a damn fine football player.

I say it because the way he moves and locates, the way he run blocks, gets to the 2nd level, I don't see any reason to over complicate it or drop him in the draft if you need him for a different position than what he played in college..

If he's there he's the best Olineman that will be available when we pick, we need two positions at this point..that's why I used the word safe.

I agree on Martin just not being worth it at 19. His size would also concern me - narrow frame, short arms, meh. This is a draft that certainly has 20 maybe even 25 better prospects, imo, regardless of need.

To pick and choose from your list...I'd take Mason at 19, and then Niklas in the 2nd, which would be considered a 'fall' for him, imo. We'd have a very solid run game with those two guys.

I'm not sure my draft board is really shaping up to have a player at a position of need end up the best available at pick 19. Probably a good thing though. You don't want to play guys as rookies unless they earn it.

"RoninFin4 wrote:

Of those three options, I'd go with A personally. I think adding those weapons to Tannehill's arsenal improves the team and allows them to score 30 points or more in more than one game in 2014. If I knew Ja'Wuan James was the 3rd pick in that scenario after Cooks and Mason, then pull the trigger.

That said, I feel like their inclination may be towards what I'd consider option D:

C.J. Mosley or Ryan Shazier at 1 and then Morgan Moses at 2 and someone like C.J. Fiedorowicz at 3. I'm basing that off of them sniffing around Knowshon Moreno and the rumored meeting in Orlando with Maurice Jones-Drew's reps. If they sign one of those two, then I think RB takes a backseat to OL, LB, and probably another WR or TE.

Just for fun, if I were making a mock draft of Miami as things stand right now assuming no other free agents are signed before the draft:

1. Ryan Shazier
2. Morgan Moses
3. C.J. Fiedorowicz
4. Jeremy Hill
5. Caraun Reid
6. John Urshcel
7. - Traded to Baltimore -

I know that's pretty "meat and potatoes" but they all relatively fit needs.

We got our 7th rounder pick back.

"djphinfan wrote:

I say it because the way he moves and locates, the way he run blocks, gets to the 2nd level, I don't see any reason to over complicate it or drop him in the draft if you need him for a different position than what he played in college..

If he's there he's the best Olineman that will be available when we pick, we need two positions at this point..that's why I used the word safe.

You've never seen him play left guard or right tackle in your whole life and you call it "over complicating" it by acknowledging that this inserts a whole lot of risk into the idea of taking him as a left guard or right tackle?

I see it the opposite. I think you're creating convoluted and over complicated rationales to justify the idea whereas the simpler thing to to do would be just to acknowledge that you've never in your whole life seen him play the positions you'd have in mind for him to play and therefore it's a risk to take him high to play those positions.

I bet Gabe Carimi was viewed as an extremely safe pick. People weren't totally sure he could play left tackle but at the very WORST he could be a really great guard.

Except he sucks as a guard.

Kenyatta Walker was viewed as a safe pick. He was a left tackle at Florida and there were some questions about whether he could play there in the NFL but at the very WORST he could be an excellent right tackle. Except when the Bucs played him at right tackle, he sucked there and when asked about it he is the one that gave the quote that it's like being right-handed and asked to write with your left hand.

I'm sure Jonathan Martin was viewed as being "safe" too, because if he couldn't quite hack it as a left tackle then at WORST he'll be a good right tackle. Except how many times did we hear about Jonathan Martin being more comfortable at left tackle than at right? He absolutely sucked at right tackle. That wasn't a salvagable position for him. He couldn't hack it at the position he'd played for most of his time at Stanford and that destabilized him as a football player PERIOD. There was no salvage to be had.

I don't like the Zack Martin pick for 19. Aside from what CK just spoke about him having almost no experience in the positions he would most likely play for the Dolphins, there is also the fact that there are good guards to be had in the 2nd round. You can go get an impact player like Brandin Cooks or maybe Eirc Ebron in the first, and then look for your guard in the second with someone like David Yankey or Gabe Jackson.

Even better, get more impact players in the first 2-3 rounds and then try to find diamonds in the rough for your O-line in the middle rounds.

"ckparrothead wrote:

You've never seen him play left guard or right tackle in your whole life and you call it "over complicating" it by acknowledging that this inserts a whole lot of risk into the idea of taking him as a left guard or right tackle?

I see it the opposite. I think you're creating convoluted and over complicated rationales to justify the idea whereas the simpler thing to to do would be just to acknowledge that you've never in your whole life seen him play the positions you'd have in mind for him to play and therefore it's a risk to take him high to play those positions.

I bet Gabe Carimi was viewed as an extremely safe pick. People weren't totally sure he could play left tackle but at the very WORST he could be a really great guard.

Except he sucks as a guard.

Kenyatta Walker was viewed as a safe pick. He was a left tackle at Florida and there were some questions about whether he could play there in the NFL but at the very WORST he could be an excellent right tackle. Except when the Bucs played him at right tackle, he sucked there and when asked about it he is the one that gave the quote that it's like being right-handed and asked to write with your left hand.

I'm sure Jonathan Martin was viewed as being "safe" too, because if he couldn't quite hack it as a left tackle then at WORST he'll be a good right tackle. Except how many times did we hear about Jonathan Martin being more comfortable at left tackle than at right? He absolutely sucked at right tackle. That wasn't a salvagable position for him. He couldn't hack it at the position he'd played for most of his time at Stanford and that destabilized him as a football player PERIOD. There was no salvage to be had.

I don't base my evaluations or projections based on past happenings, it's irrelevant to me, I'm not even advocating selecting him at 19..he's built like a guard, drives like a guard, plays a good left tackle in a guard body, so I'm not going dismiss that he is probably going to be the best lineman on the board at 19, and that his game translates to other positions along the front imo.

Have you stopped to think his game might be better at another position..

Now from what you said I see that the unknown takes priority in the process, or is it that you think James is as good and you might be able to get him a round later?

After last season, good lineman look pretty sexy to me

"djphinfan wrote:

I don't base my evaluations or projections based on past happenings, it's irrelevant to me, I'm not even advocating selecting him at 19..he's built like a guard, drives like a guard, plays a good left tackle in a guard body, so I'm not going dismiss that he is probably going to be the best lineman on the board at 19, and that his game translates to other positions along the front imo.

Have you stopped to think his game might be better at another position..

Now from what you said I see that the unknown takes priority in the process, or is it that you think James is as good and you might be able to get him a round later?

Thank you for making my point for me. At 19 overall you're taking a "might be".

That's the point. RISK.

As for JaWuan James I do see him as just as good a football player, but also probably able to be taken a round later, AND has been playing the position we will want him to play. Altogether a better strategy, IMO.

If Hickey shores up the running back position with a veteran, and signs a plug and play OLineman (like Wharton), before the draft...

I think that seriously opens up our draft options and puts us in a position to go for homerun talents and BPA. (which I want)

Right now we need a top round player to upgrade the O Line and that might force Hickey to take a safe player.

I get the evaluation that Zack Martin has the look and makings of a good guard. I get that. I feel the same way.

What I'm saying is YOU DON'T KNOW. You have no solid footing for comparison of him as a left guard to let's say an Xavier Su'a-Filo or even the guys that Sumlit brings up David Yankey and Gabe Jackson. You haven't seen Zack Martin playing guard and doing guard WORK so how can you say you know he'll be better at it than these other guys?

It's very hard to do that. I'm not saying impossible. I'm not saying if you peg Martin for a position switch you have to drop him all the way down to the bottom of the guards. I'm saying it inserts an element of RISK into the equation which truly must be acknowledged in your process.

Being a GM is not just about picking talent. It's about managing a portfolio of assets that work in conjunction with one another to handle the myriad unknowns and obstacles that will most definitely be thrown at you along the way. It requires risk consciousness and risk management.

"ckparrothead wrote:

I get the evaluation that Zack Martin has the look and makings of a good guard. I get that. I feel the same way.

What I'm saying is YOU DON'T KNOW. You have no solid footing for comparison of him as a left guard to let's say an Xavier Su'a-Filo or even the guys that Sumlit brings up David Yankey and Gabe Jackson. You haven't seen Zack Martin playing guard and doing guard WORK so how can you say you know he'll be better at it than these other guys?

It's very hard to do that. I'm not saying impossible. I'm not saying if you peg Martin for a position switch you have to drop him all the way down to the bottom of the guards. I'm saying it inserts an element of RISK into the equation which truly must be acknowledged in your process.

Being a GM is not just about picking talent. It's about managing a portfolio of assets that work in conjunction with one another to handle the myriad unknowns and obstacles that will most definitely be thrown at you along the way. It requires risk consciousness and risk management.

yes it does, but it comes down to this, if were going to take a lineman with the first pick, then I'm taking the best lineman I see, the one that has the most diversity, if you select a player because you've seen him play the position yet your evaluation is that the other guy who you haven't seen play there is the better football player, which way are you gonna go..

There's always risk in evaluation but what minimizes it, is taking the best player..This is BPA and need fitting into one topic.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Thank you for making my point for me. At 19 overall you're taking a "might be".

That's the point. RISK.

As for JaWuan James I do see him as just as good a football player, but also probably able to be taken a round later, AND has been playing the position we will want him to play. Altogether a better strategy, IMO.

I agree with your philosophy if you have James graded that high.

I want SEXY!

Martin is draftable high. He is a safe pick, he can play. I agree with DJ as far as that goes.
But just because a guy is safe and fits the positional need does not mean he is a must draft player.
I agree that risk evaluation is part of the strategy, but I disagree that a GM must be risk averse during the draft on the basis of ability. I think a GM can be risk averse when it comes to character and injury concerns. Those are facts on which risk assessment can be made. Ability is a matter of opinion (evaluation), there is no risk assessment there.

Trade up for Ebron if you want sexy...

RBs can be had later...

Playmakers don't often fall in your lap in the first round, and hopefully our new GM understands this truth. Therefore, I've gotta think the pick would come down to the best player available among Odell Beckham, Brandin Cooks, Eric Ebron, Clinton-Dix, Calvin Pryor, Aaron Donald, or Kony Ealy, all of whom fill a semi need.

Beckham could be outstanding in the slot in a Randall Cobb-esque way, which could draw interest from Philbin.

Cooks has some DeSean Jackson traits to him, which could draw interest from Lazor.

Ebron is everything in a movable chess piece TE you'd want in an offense that's envisioned as being a merge of Green Bay and Philly. Philbin had a poor man's version of Ebron in Jermichael Finley. He may want the real deal.

Louis Delmas is the perfect 1 year stop gap to allow Miami to break in a FS of the future, Pryor or Clinton-Dex.

Aaron Donald for obvious reasons- cant have enough pressure players on defense; Starks is getting up there in years; Odrick is a FA next year.

Kony Ealy for less obvious reasons- much better fit schematically than Vernon; offers greater scheme versatility than Vernon by allowing the defensive front to be multiple; would allow Dion Jordan to better transition to OLB; Wake is taking a beating as a left side only DE because he too often sees strong side offensive formations. Ealy would allow Vernon to give Wake some needed rest in base defense, as well as allow the defensive front to more properly align to whichever side is the strong side. Ealy would go to whichever side the TE goes, Jordan would be the true SAM, and Wheeler would be the true WILL in these instances which could help improve the run D. With the NFL combine's fastest 3-cone time among all defensive linemen the past 9 years, Ealy is also an elite nickel DT candidate and could easily be a 10+ sack guy when factoring in that ability, especially with Wake & Jordan coming off the edge leaving quarterbacks no where to go.

"FinNasty wrote:

Trade up for Ebron if you want sexy...

RBs can be had later...

i wouldn't trade up for Ebron, bit if he's there at 19 then we must think hard on that one..

He's not better than Eifert imo...Eifert is gonna be special.

I'm just not sure if this draft is as deep as everyone is suggesting, I think there is a bit of hype goin on.

unsexy, please. get me 3 o-linemen...all with bench presses over 26 reps. get me a power running back (a one cut guy, nothing fancy), and get me max bullough in the 5th round to compete at mlb. i dont want to see any wrs or dbs until the 6th or 7th rounds. fix the running game. it's really that simple for me. we have enough playmakers, just fix the coaching.