He coaches them up of course.

 

Heard Philbin say many times this isnt the case. It's most certainly Sherman's offense anyway. Let's see how much time they spend looking at Wrs now. I'm willing to bet they'll cool off on Austin. I probably still want one of the big 2 Wr's as much as anyone.... but a value @ need will be presented and we won't pass it up.

What options do we have though ? Thigpen as Cobb 2.0 ?

 

Brian Hartline, duh

 

Wallace will help by taking the top off of the defense, therefore more space for the other WR's. There, I solved it for you.

 

Philly ran a West Coast offense predicated on big plays deep. YAC-centric WCO is what happens when you have relatively slow, stocky receivers.

 

Philbin didn't call plays in GB either, McCarthy did.

The better offense to look at would be the '00-'05 Packers.

 

If we look at the last time Philbin was in GB, the 4 WRs (Jennings, Jones, Driver, Nelson) + the TE Finley had 1393 YAC combined.
Hartline, Bess, Wallace, Gibson last year and Keller from the year before (wasn't hurt) had 1211 YAC combined.

I don't see the problem.

 

Add in Keller and Wallace can both get deep, meaning those 3 will have man coverage when on the field.

Hartline still avg'd 14.7 ypc for example

Don't make problems that aren't actually there.

 

Come on, can't we find something to complain about? What's a Dolphins message board without a bunch of sniveling and whining? :shifty:

 

I think the idea is creating space with a deep target like Wallace and also Hartline. Have to see the way things play out, I think our WR corps went from being a weak point of our team to a strength. I think Philibin is smart enough to create good schemes and gameplans as well as take advantage of mismatches.

 

That is beautiful to watch :)

 

1393 yac/265 rec = 5.26 yac/rec
1211 yac/315 rec = 3.84 yac/rec

I'm not too concerned about yac, because I think QB play plays a good factor, but 1.5yds/rec is a fairly large difference IMO.


Also worth consideration is that I think most of us would agree that the group in GB is a pretty darn good group of pass catchers, but they operate with all those other players on the field together (so someone should be open). Miami, St Louis, and NYJ's pass catchers don't compare at all, and while Pitt had a good group it isn't on GB's level, so YAC could be depressed just by the nature of less options that the defense needs to worry about. Take (arguably) the best pass catcher from 2 of those teams (Miami and Pitt), and (arguably) the 2nd best from three other teams (StL, Miami, and NYJ) and put them all on the field with each other and you might see YAC go up across the board.

 

Yeah but Bess and Hartline got injured last year. Wallace had an off year as well. And the GB guys were playing all together which opened the field up more. With all those qualifiers, you'd think the difference would have been greater.

 

Once again, I added more after I submitted my initial post. :lol:

 

Come on chicken little...lets see them on the field first.

 

I call that the Todd Haley effect.

 

Agreed. I still see us as a run first offense that throws the ball wh the numbers are in our favor. Our current group of receivers is more than good enough to do that. IMO we should be focused on making sure the run game continues to be a strength and giving Tannehill good pass pro.

 

Funny thing is that the original rules for the professional passing game dictated passing to set up the run. And this was back in the 40s when the guy who was coaching the 49ers in the AAFC invented the shotgun formation and the like. People look at the 70s as some sort of NFL golden age, but it's more like they were the Dark Ages.

 

Well, I don't want to sound like we have a bunch of Drivers, Finleys and Jennings on this team, but the system they ran in GB made those guys into what they are today... Jennings is not a true #1 WR, and Driver really wasn't although he got the job done....those guys were schemed into the successes they had as WRs...again, I'm not comparing Jennings or Driver to anyone we have right now, but they can be schemed into that kind of success. Nelson, Cobb and James Jones aren't any better than Hartline, Gibson and Bess...and who knows about who we get in the draft or whether Matthews, Binns or Fuller can develop into something better...

I'm not too worried, but I see this group as one that Philbin/Sherman can develop into the like of Jennings, Driver and such...

 

And you forgot red zone threats

 

I think this is a legit question.

People are comparing the Dolphins current wide receiver position to the Green Bay one and the area of run after catch is the most glaring difference. Altogether in 2012, Randall Cobb, James Jones, Jordy Nelson and Greg Jennings combined for 5.1 yards after catch average. That's all four combined.

1. Mike Wallace can run after catch. He's so fast and explosive, how could he not? I have no issues here. This is Miami's one true source of YAC on the roster, to date. The numbers back it up. Even in a down year Wallace averaged 4.4 yards after catch. But in 2011 he averaged 6.8 yards after catch, and in 2010 it was 6.3 yards after catch on average. Good numbers.

2. This is where things start to break down. Davone Bess has typically averaged about 4.1 to 4.4 yards after catch, consistently from 2009 thru 2012. This is decent, but only just so. If you rank WRs on PFF that took 25+ percent of their team's snaps by yards after catch average, each of those years Davone Bess is eerily ranked directly in the middle of the group. Always about 55 out of 110, or thereabouts. He's an AVERAGE run after catch guy.

3. Brian Hartline on the other hand, we all know his problems there. Can we really deny them at this point? Watch the film. It's clear. His run after catch average in 2012 was definitely bolstered by the big 80 yard touchdown against Arizona which was a huge coverage miscue that got Kerry Rhodes cut this off season. As things stand 3.4 yards after catch average is bad anyway but without that game it's more like 2.5 and that's pitiful. In 2011 he ranked #104 of 115.

4. Now we get to the new acquisition, Brandon Gibson. His pitiful 2.2 yards after catch average in 2012 was good enough for #102 of 106. His YAC has been in a steady decline since he entered the league.

These are your top four wide receivers. Usually you only see four wide receivers active on game day hence Rishard Matthews being inactive most of the year.

 

So, I'm clear.....

I can't add up their individual YAC ability to get an idea of total YAC because they haven't played together in the same offense, but you can look at them not playing together and say they won't get comparable YAC.

You're so full of ****.

 

Most players are carrying injuries. Part of the game. p.s liking the Dr Who. :-)

 

Color me crazy.....

But...why not wait till after the draft to ask this kind of question?

I think then we will have a more accurate picture of what we intend to do.

 

YAC. If our new WR Corp can do their routes, get open and move the chains then im a happy bunny. To me its irrelevant right now. Our WRs just got better. FACT. That in itself is a positive. We are going down the stats route again. We are going down the crystal ball road. Lets be happy we are giving Tannehill weapons for crips sake!

 

I think Rishard Matthews can be a good YAC receiver in his career. Although like you said, it most likely won't happen this year.

 

Yeah I agree with you. If anyone is our James Jones, it's Rishard Matthews not Brandon Gibson. But as long as Brandon Gibson is out there, Rishard is probably inactive on game day.

 

Matthews looked intriguing, especially at the end of last season, definitely someone I want to see more of in a Dolphins uniform. I certainly hope that the Gibson signing doesn't put a roadblock on his Dolphins career.

 

I doubt that. I think Matthews is the 4th guy. Bess is a goner, trade-bait for a pick perhaps to be used at RB.

CK what's your thought on drafting Datone Jones in a trade down. They've got their ideal fits right now at rush end, nose tackle, three-gap, and right now they need that close end, so they can move Odrick inside.

 

I like Datone Jones. I wouldn't want to make him my 1st pick in the draft though. I think he's more appropriately valued in the 3rd round, or maybe with pick 2B if you're desperate at the position.

 

I agree.

I don't understand why people are serving Davone Bess his walking papers based on the Gibson signing. I'd love to see if we could get something for him in trade since we gave a long term deal to Hartline...but if not you might as well let him serve out his contract.