I don't think its ok to get excited about it... we just picked a QB with our early 2nd round pick last year, and he still hasnt really been given a fair chance at playing with a decent team on the field. Why else am I not excited about it?? Maybe because we need a CB... a WR... a DE... some LB's... OH!! and not to mention a TE....

 

With John Beck still being a huge question mark and proving nothing last season QB is still a need. With the offensive line addressed it becomes the biggest need at that pick. Like the article says, even if John Beck does turn out to be a good QB, still not a bad move to have 2 good QBs on the roster. It's agood problem to have.

 

Why are you guys so negative? There are plenty of reasons to be excited about that 32nd overall pick.

The whole point is that we have a lot of needs and that there are a lot of highly talented players at some of those need positions that should be available when it's our turn to pick.

 

We don't need to draft another QB until we know what we have on our roster. Any QB that we draft will come with the same questions and concerns that we have with Beck, so why spend a pick before we know what we currently have?

On a team that has so many holes to fill and so many positions to upgrade, it doesn't make sense to spend another high pick on a QB after selecting Beck last year and signing McCown this year. If the rookie QB comes in and doesn't impress enough during camp, he'll end up being #3 on your depth chart instead of #1 OLB or #2 WR or #1 TE. It's a waste IMO.

 

"It is no secret the Dolphins have something of a quarterback quandary. Signing a McCown brother has become the universal sign of quarterback trouble."

LMAO :lol: :sidelol:

 

Someone start a cocaine rumor about Matt Ryan so he slips to 32... :D

 

Why not spend the pick since we have no idea what we currently have? Right now we have a guy in John Beck who showed nothing in his first NFL season except an inability to hang onto the football and handle the snap. We brought in a journeyman QB who has been bounced around from team to team. He's probably not much better than Cleo Lemon. If the talent evaluators on the Dolphins see something special in Henne, Flacco, or Brohm, then it will not be a wasted pick. If they don't, then I agree we should address other needs. But let's try not to forget that QB is the most important position on the team.

 

What difference does it really make what the last regime did? We are moving forward. If we are to choose a QB, it will be because a lot of hours were put into studying game film on Beck, practice film on Beck, and the fact that he has already been working with our new QB coach. The decision, if it is to be made, to draft a QB is not something Ireland and company are going to take lightly. They have done their homework and will base their decision on what they have concluded from what has probably been a grueling study of Beck and what they feel his potential is and what he brings this franchise short term and long term.

 

No. It's still a question mark. Do you know what Beck is capable of with a solid o-line, a good running game and some help at WR? Neither do I. You don't shell shell out a 1st round selection for a position that might be a need. Not when you have as many holes as we have. Not when there's a quality week 1 impact player available. Not when there's a good chance that said QB won't see the field anyway because the ostensible need doesn't become an actual need if Beck develops just fine. I don't see any need to rush things at QB. If Beck doesn't work out, draft a QB next year. Or draft a dev guy on day 2. It's not as if we are going to be SB contenders in two years. Why the rush? The Dolphins are in a prime position to pick up an impact player with that pick and young impact guys is what we are lacking just about everywhere. QB isn't the first part of the rebuilding puzzle. It's the last. Get trenches, get pass rushers, get a good cover corner. Then you can go ahead and draft yourself a QB because it's only then that you can put him in a position to succeed. Draft a QB now and you've only added another question mark. It's Beck all over again.

 

But we do know what we have. At least, the coaching staff and everyone within Dolphins management feel they do. Maybe Beck COULD develop into a solid starter. Maybe not. But I'm betting we do not have NEAR the guage on Beck that the current regime does. Beck has many mechanical flaws, is already "older" in terms of young QBs - so the window of opportunity for him to overcome his flaws and develop is much smaller than that of a typical second year QB.

If we do draft another QB, and Beck does develop into a good QB, then all the better for us down the road. For one, we'll potentially have two good QBs on the roster, and two, we'll have some great trade bait to help improve this team.

 

Add 3 - we've just missed the opportunity to get ourself an impact guy that would have improved this team instantly and increased the chances that at least one QB on this roster actually has the chance to develop into something.

 

Exactly. I won't be dissapointed one way or the other. If they pass on the QB, that means they saw enough in Beck to believe he's their guy. If they take a QB with one of those 2nd round picks that means they are not sold on Beck and see something special in one of the guys that might be available at that pick. As much as people seem to think the QB is last on a wishlist, no GM in his right mind would pass on a QB in the 2nd round (or end of 1rst, whatever you want to call it) that they felt like could be a franchise QB.

 

One key factor missing in your analysis. It's much more difficult to find an impact QB than it is to find an impact DE, IMO. If we miss out on an impact QB this year, it could be much harder to find one next year. If we miss an impact DE this year, odds are one can be found in next year's draft.

 

There are many other variables that will go into the decision about Beck than what he "might be able to do if he has this and that." There is no question in my mind that Beck has the mental capacity to play at this level. He's a student of the game, so to speak. He's a hard worker, and he's intelligent and mature. But all of that can't overcome physical limitations that coaches might see. We have all been witness to some of his limitations and flaws. Some of them can be corrected over time. But as I've said about Beck many times, being an older QB, how much time are we willing to invest in him? It's not out of the question that Beck could be pushing 30 years old before he's a capable starter -IF he ever is. If an opportunity were to present itself for us to get Henne or Brohm (my personal preference) then I would jump all over it.

 

Right on!

 

(oops, looks like I came in late - started writing this 30 minutes ago, but was taken away here at work)

Beck didn't get the starting reps in training camp. Even during the bye, he didn't get the starting reps in practice. Sometime around there he started getting 50% of them. The Dolphins # 1 tailback was gone, and the # 2 and # 3 (Chatman and Williams) got hurt while he played - Ricky got all of 6 carries. He had no reliable TE. There were rumors that the team wanted Lemon to play to get one win and sabotaged him. His WRs were a rookie in Ginn and whatever inconsistent player we trotted out on the other side.

Aside from ball security (fumbling) issues, he made relatively quick decisions. He showed arm strength and that he could make the NFL throws. In preseason, he showed he could run a two minute offense - and while he was going against 3rd stringers, he was playing with them, too. When he was thrown in, he was done so in a crisis (for the coach) situation, and he hadn't been prepared properly, yet he was decent against both Pittsburgh and Philly for gameplans that were totally conservative.

Yet he showed nothing?

So we just need to throw more draft picks at the QB problem to try to solve the same thing that another rookie is not going to solve? Or... we can give him the reps through mini-camps, training camp, and the preseason to adequately prepare him to be a second year QB in this league, deal with some of the growing pains, and groom a quarterback. See for real if he can play in this league. We're not making the playoffs anyway, so why not improve the team by coaching a quarterback up with a potentially very good line? They can grow together. We have an adequate back-up in McCown. But a quarterback QB contoversy will help?

Not to mention, that's one less pick (or more if traded down) to spend on the greater needs of NT, DE, ILB, OLB, CB, S, G, TE, and WR. Because if we're going to keep playing from behind like we did 90% of last year, it's going to be tough to develop a quarterback no matter who you draft.

I won't go ballistic if they draft a QB in the second round, but I do think we will have squandered a valuable commodity (high draft choice) unless time proves out that we have drafted a better than franchise guy (because I think Beck will develop into a franchise QB - "franchise" meaning we have our player and aren't trying to replace him each year). Too many needs elsewhere, and not addressing those hurts the team.

 

Say we draft Henne or Flacco and none of our QB's show us anything this year, should we keep throwing draft picks at the problem for the next few years until we find someone that will "light it up" from day one? Or should we try to develop our young talent?

If you want to ignore the surrounding cast, highlite a handfull of mistakes and feel that you can make an educated judgement after only 4 games, then you would be "spot on" as they say. If you want to look a little deeper and take into account the fact that his surrounding cast was either injured, unmotivated or had just completely given up, as well as the bland playcalling and the fact that he wasn't given proper practice time, then you'll want to give him a chance to prove himself before you chuck him to the trash heep.

Beck said it best, he has received more instruction from the new staff in 2 months than he did all of last year. He was never meant to see the field last year because Cam planned on him learning from the sidelines like Philip Rivers did in SD. Because of injury and outside pressure, Cam gave in and threw Beck to the wolves. What QB would do well under those conditions?

Lets not also forget that this is going to be a run oriented team, evidenced by our #1 selection. :wink2: Our QB isn't going to be asked to take over a game and throw for 300+ yards and 4 TD's, he'll only be asked to keep the defense honest. All Beck (or McCown) has to do is make the throws that are asked of him, noone is going to expect him to instantly become Peyton Manning. This offense is going to be a rush first, rush second and rush some more type offense.

 

Not really. I just don't see an impact QB in either Henne, Brohm or Flacco. Solid, talented prospects like Beck, but not franchise material. They are 2nd rounders for a reason; that reason being that they aren't considered franchise QBs. If they were, we wouldn't be able to land one of them at #32. Don't get me wrong, I actually like Henne and Brohm and I'd give it a shot at #57 if one of them was still on the board, but between a prospect QB like the one we already have and an impact LB/DE/CB, I'd take the impact player any day. QB prospects like Henne are available in every draft. A prime position with basically two first round picks you don't have every day.

 

Or we create a situation where no one can succeed. If Beck starts and stumbles, fans are chanting for Henne/Brohm/Flacco. If Henne/Brohm/Flacco start and stumble, fans are chanting for Beck. You create a situation where whoever starts better be perfect, and turmoil in the locker room when everyone picks sides.

I think if Miami drafts a QB in the 2nd, or trades up into the 1st, Beck will get shipped out for a 4h or 5th, and McCown starts while the new guy learns.

 

I don't think anyone should expect a rookie QB to light it up from day one. But you need to see something in a player that leads you to believe he can develop into that guy. IMO, Beck didn't do that. But yes, until we find that guy who shows us that flash that he can be a franchise QB you keep addressing the position until you get it right. That doesn't mean I think we should draft a QB every year, but no team is going to be succesful until they have a serviceable QB and I'm not convinced we have one on our roster.

Like2God,

I remember you saying in your other arguments against Ryan that one of the biggest reasons we shouldn't take him is that guys like Henne and Flacco would be available in the 2nd round and could address the need. What has changed from now till then that you now think we should completely ignore the position when it remains a huge question mark for the Dolphins?

 

Trading Beck is something I have thought about as a possibility because there seemed to be several team who were high on him and there are several teams in need of a QB.

But I don't think that keeping Beck and drafting another QB will cause the issues you stated. Look at our current QB situation. Are you satisfied with it? The worst thing that can happen is what you stated. But the positive side, IMO, outweighs the negative. You bring in a much younger guy with more time to develop, you bring in more competition to push each other in camp. And you further your chances to finally land that much coveted franchise QB we've been in dire need of since Danny retired. If a talented QB is there - one we feel can propel this team to a new level - we have to take him. It would be foolish to pass on one if one were to fall in our laps. There will always be division amongst fans on many aspects of the team. But one thing is for certain: Until we address, and finally put to rest, our QB situation, we will continue to wallow in the lower level of the NFL teams. We've GOT to find that franchise guy if we are to ever pull ourselves together into a contending team.

 

Competition is a good thing for the QB position, never a bad thing.

 

I don't doubt for one minute that the FO knows alot more about Beck than we do, but that doesn't mean (as many have suggested) that the FO is looking to distance themselves from the CamRam era by tossing Beck off to the side. If Beck can become a qulaity NFL starter, it's not out of the realm of possibility that he could play another 8 years in this league. Many QB's have played well into their 30's, so Beck's age really doesn't become an issue in my mind, unless we are talking the same way about him 2 years from now, at which point I'm sure we would already have another option in place.

But we'll miss out on another sorely needed defensive player. I'm not all that thrilled with the selection of Jake Long, but I'll feel like I was just kicked in the nuts by a chorus line if we select a QB early in this draft and ignore the defensive side of the ball.

I feel that draft picks are a major asset and not something that you just toss to the side if they don't perform well after one year. This team has a long history of drafting poorly and trading away draft picks, for once I would love to see us be patient with a player and develop his talent.

 

San Diego went that route, got nothing for Brees (maybe a compensatory pick), and Rivers still hasn't proved himself as consistent starter. The jury is very much out there, IMO.

And closer to home, there was the whole Beck/Lemon fiasco last year. Start with Lemon, oh wait, he's a stiff, bring in Beck. Beck struggles, ummm, how about Cleo, "cause he gives us the best chance to win". We ended up with a mess.

I don't disagree that competition is generally good. But when your team is 1-15, and you have needs everywhere, I'm not sure creating a QB competition is high on our list.

 

Then Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman and John Elway didn't do that either. I'm suspecting their teams are pretty glad they didn't throw in the towel after four starts, though ...

 

Do you really honestly think that you can make a fair evaluation of Beck after only 4 games in which he was put in a god awful situation without even being prepared?

What does it mean then? Because fans are impatient, unless you show us something now, we want someone else. How much time is fair to give a player? If we draft Flacco, does he only get the same 4 games that Beck did? Does he get a whole season? Why doesn't Beck get a whole season to show what he's capable of? If neither Qb shows much this upcoming year, do we draft a QB next year?

Until we start developing our own players and giving them time to show what they are capable of in an NFL setting with a good supporting cast, we're always going to have this problem. Good talent will be wasted, draft picks will once again be misused and we will forever be stuck in the NFL basement until we hit the lotto on a talented Qb that can come in from day 1 and be the type of player that fans will be happy with. I'd much prefer to see what our guys are capable of and fix the rest of the team. JMO though, I know I'm in the minority on this.

I think I went through the same "enlightening" process that adamprez has talked about, that we should just wait until day 2 at the earliest to draft a QB. He wanted Ryan at #1, but realized (before Jake Long was announced as our pick) that's it's probably best to see what we have in Beck/McCown and possibly draft a developmental QB on day 2. I've supported Beck for a long while now and I want to see what he's capable of before we move on. Adding another rookie Qb to the mix will only lead to one guy (who cost us a very valuable draft pick) to find himself firmly planted on the bench if he doesn't come in and put up excellent numbers.

I think ryoung8918 stated it perfectly

Props to you brother :yes:

 

That baffles me as well. It seems the popular opinion is that talent will stick out like a sore thump no matter how awful the situation. Dunno where that comes from, though. Talent never does. At least not with quarterbacks. Unless they are put in a position to succeed - by giving them a good offensive line, a couple of targets at WR and TE and a solid running game - they always fail. It's like saying Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Alex Smith, David Carr, Joey Harrington and countless others didn't have enough talent. Of course they did. What they didn't have was a team that realized that when you put quarterbacks in a position to fail, they will fail. You can put Zach Thomas on a bad team and he'll stick out like a sore thump. Do the same to, say, Daunte Culpepper ... Of course you could gamble on a once in a lifetime QB like Marino but I'd say you're better of in Vegas with that strategy than in an NFL FO ...

 

Sorry, I think they do.

 

Ditto! If they do pick a QB Saturday, it will be fine with me. I think they should. Where they pick him (if they do) will give us some indication how much faith they have in JB.

I prefer seeing one picked later in the draft just because that will indicate they feel comfortable with what we have already. It will allow us to address our other needs in building a new roster in some degree of comfort knowing they believe JB can get the job done.

By now JB will have thrown close to 5000 balls in the off season, in addition to them reviewing his 4.5 real game situations and most likely all practice films they should have a very good understanding of his capabilities.

 

Honestly I don't think I could make a fair evaluation of Beck if I saw him play 20 games. I'm not a talent evaluator. But I think I saw enough to realize we have a question mark at the QB position.

But seriously, it's too close to the draft for us to be wasting time debating this. Whatever Bill Parcells and Ireland do on Saturday, I'm fine with. If they take a QB, that's great. If they are confident enough in Beck to address other positions, then I'm fine with that too. They are the only ones who can make a "fair" evaluation, and they'll draft accordingly.

 

Agreed

I think people expect too much from rookies, they expect instant results and when they don't get them, they look to see who else is available. I've watched some of my favorite teams waste draft picks and give up on young players too soon and it has always come back to bite them.

If Cam, Martz, Ireland, Wolf and Jaws all feel that Beck has what it takes to play in the NFL, then I don't see the reason to argue that he can't, at least not until he proves otherwise once given the proper opportunity.

Did I word that wrong?

I think the FO has a much better handle on our players than we do. :wink2:

With that said, even the dimmest of bulbs should be able to see that Beck was in a very tough situation last year in which he wasn't even properly prepared to play. I'm sure the FO has taken that into account.

 

Well, I'm not saying that you have to be an expert (I'm not), everyone forms an opinion one way or the other based on what they see out on the field. The difference is that some people look at a players production solely on his numbers and the like and don't take into account things like his surrounding cast that effect his play. Without a good OL, the QB will be under pressure, without good WR's that know how to run routes and are aggressive when the ball is in the air, the QB won't complete many passes and his INT's might increase, etc, etc, etc.

The fact that Beck was jerked in and ut of the lineup, that he wasn't properly prepared and that his surrounding cast was dreadful, is enough for me to want to see what he can do with a better OL, better WR's and Ronnie Brown taking the handoffs. If Beck had been prepared and everyone was healthy, I would probably be looking for the Phins to draft a Flacco or a Henne, maybe even Ryan. But IMO, he hasn't been given a decent chance yet, and his mistakes can be attributed to that.

Then what fun would a football forum be? :lol: :wink2:

See, I don't buy into the whole "the FO is infallible" argument. Not every FO knows what the hell they're doing (witness what Isiah Thomas has done to my Knicks. :pity:). Questioning them is what keeps them honest.

I agree that they know a heck of alot more than I do, but that doesn't mean that they always get it right. I definitely respect their knowledge and player evaluation, but if they were to totally disregard the circumstances that Beck was put in and spent a high pick to find a replacement, I have to question their judgement.

 

I think we're going to try to go after Henne. Apparently, with the shortened time between picks, a lot of phone calls are being made now to set up for possible trade possibilities.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=33297

 

Classless.

 

Not classless, as I didn't mean it to offend anyone. It's just a phrase that I use often, always have.

 

A post from a Bills fan

Again, looking at our situation from a rival fans perspective, they would love to see us ignore our other needs in order to keep addressing a question that we are too impatient to let answer itself.

 

It makes zero since for a new regime to come in and discard a QB based on the fact that he was drafted by a past regime. That will have nothing to do with any decision made regarding the QB position. If he's deemed good enough to be a starter, Alfred E. Newman could have drafted him and he would still be the man. I can't imagine Ireland and Parcells confided such a conversation as this: "Well, Beck got all the tools we are looking for. He'll make a great QB. Too bad he was drafted by Cameron and we have to move in another direction. No way will he ever be our starter. He can ride the pine - we're getting our own guy." So i agree with you there. I can't see where anyone in their right minds would suggest that Parcells and Ireland are going to simply disregard Beck based upon who he was drafted by.

BUT, if they don't see it in Beck, we can't wait and WASTE another full season HOPING Beck is, or will become, the man. I'm sure they have been very thorough in their evaluation of Beck and the decision whether to draft a QB will be made on that evaluation.

We do have a lot of areas where we need to improve and I value those draft picks as much as you do. But if you look at last year, and the debacle that it was, a GOOD QB would have made an enormous difference even on a team that was in the very depths of the league. That's why there should always be a premium put on the QB spot. You HAVE to have good one to win in this league. That's why if Brohm or Henne is available with our 2nd pick, I would jump all over them. I think both of them have much more potential than Beck. And that may seem unfair at this stage of Beck's career, but in my opinion, both of these guys are more polished and NFL ready QBs RIGHT now than Beck is even after the in game experience that he got last year. Again, just my opinion.

 

SCALL13,

I don't think it's about discarding Beck, I think it's more to do with having someone challenging Beck next year or after McCown's contract expires in '09...it's about the future.

I have no doubts that Beck will get his chance this year, and I'm hoping he'll do well.

 

I don't think it's about discarding Beck either. I think it's about bringing in a QB (should they decide to) that they feel will better suit what they need in their QB -someone they feel is just better and has a longer career ahead of him. Beck may very well get his chance. But he may get beat out by McCown or whoever the rookie is that we MIGHT bring in.