Is Homosexuality a Choice?
37 replies
The_Dark_Knightforum_veteranOPFor those who are interested in having an objective discussion, this is an intriguing article.
Ask this question, and you will probably receive one of two responses: Yes. People choose to be gay. They are making an immoral choice, which government should discourage. Or No. Sexual preference is biologically determined. Government should protect gay people from discrimination because homosexuality is an unalterable aspect of their identity.
These two answers have something in common: With both of them, the science conveniently supports the moral decision. "Being gay is bad. How wonderful it is that nobody has to be gay!" "Homosexual behavior should be allowed to take place. Isn't it fantastic that, by an amazing coincidence, there is no way to stop it?" What if neither answer is right? Perhaps sexual preference can be changed - and people have the right to engage in gay sex and have homosexual relationships if they choose to do so. (The fourth option, that gay people have no choice but to be gay, but should be punished for it anyway, is morally unthinkable.)
What does science tell us about sexual preference? Genes We know, from many twin and adoption studies, that sexual preference has a genetic component. A gay man is more likely than a straight man to have a (biological) gay brother; lesbians are more likely than straight women to have gay sisters. In 1993, a study published in the journal Science showed that families with two homosexual brothers were very likely to have certain genetic markers on a region of the X chromosome known as Xq28. This led to media headlines about the possibility of the existence of a "gay gene" and discussions about the ethics of aborting a "gay" fetus. There have also been headlines about an "alcoholism gene", which makes people become alcoholics, and a "warrior gene", which makes people unusually aggressive. Genes can't control behavior completely, though.
Genes regulate the production of amino acids, which combine to form proteins. The existence or absence of a protein can have an effect on things like alcohol tolerance or mood. Affecting something is not the same as having complete control over it. Environment, like genetics, plays an important role in how our behavior develops. Alcoholism runs in families not only because there is a genetic component to alcoholism, but also because children learn how to cope with stress by watching how their parents and their older siblings behave in stressful situations. If you come from a culture where alcohol consumption is forbidden, it will be difficult for you to become an alcoholic, no matter how your body metabolizes alcohol.
There are factors besides a "warrior gene" that contribute to aggression. Children learn to behave aggressively when they witness aggression being rewarded. If you grew up in a family or as part of a culture where aggression was not well accepted, you would be less likely to be aggressive. You would learn, from an early age, how to control your aggressive tendencies.
Your environment affects your sexual and romantic relationships. Throughout history, marriages have been influenced by family relations and by economic needs. People adhere to cultural constraints of monogamy despite being attracted to people other than their spouses. Your culture affects your views on homosexuality. In some societies, homosexuality is accepted, in others, it is frowned upon but tolerated, in yet others, it is a serious criminal offense, possibly punishable by death. Male homosexual behavior was expected in ancient Athens. Today, ritual male homosexuality plays an important role in some cultures in New Guinea. Your upbringing can influence what you find desirable and what you find repulsive.
“The person you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so you better make sure you’re someone interesting”
DisgustipatesubscriberRegardless of it being a choice or not, you're a terrible human being if you choose to make life harder for these people because you don't like what or who they do.
SoundwaveNew Member"Disgustipate wrote:
Regardless of it being a choice or not, you're a terrible human being if you choose to make life harder for these people because you don't like what or who they do.
i think folks on your side of the fence should take that to heart.
having said that, being gay is not a choice
“It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged.”
G. K. Chesterson
Disgustipatesubscriber"Soundwave wrote:
i think folks on your side of the fence should take that to heart.
What are you suggesting? That people should be nicer to the anti-homosexuality crowd?
Pointing out just how objectionable certain elements of society have been in pretty important in affecting social change in these kinds of situations. Making sure that the anti-homosexuality crowd knows how much an increasing percentage of society thinks that they are horrifying *******s is pretty effective(and just). Out and out racists don't like being called racist for the most part.
OkiePhinforum_veteranBeing attracted to a certain lifestyle is not a choice. Indulging in that lifestyle is a choice.
SICKforum_veteranI never once sat on my bed and said "hmm ok I think I will like women"
I just am attracted to them. I didn't choose to be straight I don't think gays chose to be that way.
I had a gay second aunt. Tried marrying a man. Never worked. Had been beaten multiple times outside of gay clubs etc. she told me one time "Chris, why would I choose to be abused and looked down on this way? I tried to be 'normal' it just never works that way"
I believe her.
Co-Host of the Welcome to Perfectville Podcast
Jimmy JamesNew Member"OkiePhin wrote:
Being attracted to a certain lifestyle is not a choice. Indulging in that lifestyle is a choice.
Being predisposed to death if you don't consume water is not a choice. Drinking water is a choice.
I put it that way to both agree with you and to suggest that it is unnatural to expect large groups of people to refrain from expressing their inborn sexual identity.
I think it's fair to say it's a failing of our understanding and our language to say it's either a choice or an inborn trait. I think it's both and it's neither. It's difficult to express what it is beyond that.
The_Dark_Knightforum_veteranAnd the objectivity immediately went right out the window, completely ignoring the science all together int he article...just as I knew it would.
:pity:
“The person you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so you better make sure you’re someone interesting”
cdz12250subscriberDoes anyone realistically expect gay people to choose to live a life of total celibacy in order to conform? Because that's what it amounts to if they're not attracted to the opposite sex.
unluckylucianoNew Member"The_Dark_Knight wrote:
And the objectivity immediately went right out the window, completely ignoring the science all together int he article...just as I knew it would.
:pity:
If Sexual Preference Can Be Changed Even if gay people can never stop being attracted to members of the same sex, they can learn not to act on their desires. People already learn to stop smoking, to give up certain foods, and not cheat on their husbands or wives.
That's not really science IMO.
thanks to VO for the sick ass sigs. 
Charlie: If you're not as educated or as informed what you do is you start your own party and you yell the loudest.
Bumrushsubscriber"cdz12250 wrote:
Does anyone realistically expect gay people to choose to live a life of total celibacy in order to conform? Because that's what it amounts to if they're not attracted to the opposite sex.
That worked out real well for the Catholic Church, didn't it??? :glare:
Bumrushsubscriber"The_Dark_Knight wrote:
And the objectivity immediately went right out the window, completely ignoring the science all together int he article...just as I knew it would.
:pity:
There is no objectivity when it comes to human rights.
Gays should not be discriminated against or judged for any reason. Whether they choose to be gay or are born gay, it is none of our business to tell him how to act, or why they act. We should embrace diversity as a society. Isn't that what America is about?
I've also had the opportunity to be around a large gay population since I grew up in Miami Beach. Most of the openly gay people I met NEVER dated the opposite sex and recall being gay from early childhood. I think many of the people that harbor illwill towards homesexuals are either homosexual themselves and can't cope with their feelings, or have never been exposed to openly gay people.
GreenMonsterNew Member"Bumrush wrote:
There is no objectivity when it comes to human rights.
Gays should not be discriminated against or judged for any reason. Whether they choose to be gay or are born gay, it is none of our business to tell him how to act, or why they act. We should embrace diversity as a society. Isn't that what America is about?
I've also had the opportunity to be around a large gay population since I grew up in Miami Beach. Most of the openly gay people I met NEVER dated the opposite sex and recall being gay from early childhood. I think many of the people that harbor illwill towards homesexuals are either homosexual themselves and can't cope with their feelings, or have never been exposed to openly gay people.
It's why I am so for Polygamy, it's the next logical step.
I do believe you are born gay, but I also believe some is just lifestyle choice. I wouldn't think any women or man that has had sexual relations with someone of the same sex automatically gay. Obviously in 2012 this is accepted only with women.
I once read a great piece on the recidivism rates on a study of lesbians relationships.
jupiterfinforum_veteranThe author stated that because smokers can quit smoking by not smoking anymore, homosexuals can learn to stop being gay, if they stop engaging in homosexual acts. I think that is rubbish. And I think it being a choice is rubbish. You don't just wake up one morning and say "I want to put a **** in my mouth". It doesn't happen like that.
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unluckylucianoNew Memberif we are in fact looking at this scientifically, then it being a choice would mean it is some sort of chemical reaction that takes place in the body. In other words it is always physiological.
Modifying behavior if it is genetic is not as simple as turning on or off a gene as multiple genes can be responsible for the behavior.
thanks to VO for the sick ass sigs.
Charlie: If you're not as educated or as informed what you do is you start your own party and you yell the loudest.
Fin Dforum_veteranho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty: noun
sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex.
People need to understand that sexual desire for one's own sex makes you a homosexual, regardless if you act on it or not. Anyone can choose to not have sex of any kind. If I was celibate, I'd still be straight, just a celibate homosexual is still homosexual.
Sexual desire for a male or female is not a choice. I never chose to be straight, I just am. If you argue that sexual desire is a choice, then you must also explain at what point you chose to not be gay...because if it is a choice at some point you were attracted to both males and females then chose to be straight.
The_Dark_Knightforum_veteranAfter my "shotgun blast" it seems some of you are making intelligent arguments however, the overall gist of the article seems to be overlooked in the process of making your arguments. The question posed was is homosexuality a choice?
I highlighted certain aspects of the article which supports and also defuses the thought process that homosexuals are born to be homosexuals by uillustrating genetics in other behaviors of human beings.
Science has identified a gene that predisposes to people to alcoholism. Does this mean that just because one possesses this gene they are doomed to be alcoholics?
Science has identified a gene that predisposes people to hostility. Does this mean that just because someone possesses this gene they are doom to be psychopaths?
Sciene has progressed to the point that many traits of people can be predicted based on genetics and it's often celebrated, or used as a crutch to condone behavior,rationalizing it's not someone's fault due to their genetic makeup but it also seems to me that when political issues arise, genetics is rationalized to suit one's own personal point of view, regardless of the science involved. This has already been seen thus far in this thread.
Is homosexuality a choice? I have my own opinions but then again, I'm not a geneticist who can say for certainty one way or the other. I am a believer howver that environment has more to do with a person, the choices they make and the lives they live more than anything
“The person you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so you better make sure you’re someone interesting”
Fin Dforum_veteran"The_Dark_Knight wrote:
After my "shotgun blast" it seems some of you are making intelligent arguments however, the overall gist of the article seems to be overlooked in the process of making your arguments. The question posed was is homosexuality a choice?
I highlighted certain aspects of the article which supports and also defuses the thought process that homosexuals are born to be homosexuals by uillustrating genetics in other behaviors of human beings.
Science has identified a gene that predisposes to people to alcoholism. Does this mean that just because one possesses this gene they are doomed to be alcoholics?
Science has identified a gene that predisposes people to hostility. Does this mean that just because someone possesses this gene they are doom to be psychopaths?
Sciene has progressed to the point that many traits of people can be predicted based on genetics and it's often celebrated, or used as a crutch to condone behavior,rationalizing it's not someone's fault due to their genetic makeup but it also seems to me that when political issues arise, genetics is rationalized to suit one's own personal point of view, regardless of the science involved. This has already been seen thus far in this thread.
Is homosexuality a choice? I have my own opinions but then again, I'm not a geneticist who can say for certainty one way or the other. I am a believer howver that environment has more to do with a person, the choices they make and the lives they live more than anything
Again the article and many others are not understanding the distinction of what constitutes homosexuality.
Just being attracted to someone of the same sex whether they act on it or not, makes someone a homosexual. That is not a choice.
The_Dark_Knightforum_veteran"Finascious D wrote:
Again the article and many others are not understanding the distinction of what constitutes homosexuality.
Just being attracted to someone of the same sex whether they act on it or not, makes someone a homosexual. That is not a choice.
I beg to differ...
I know of a few females back in college before I enlisted in the army who were sadly and tragically molested and/or raped by either by their father or another male family member who CHOSE homosexuality as their lifestyle as the thought of a man touching them was repulsive to them.
That was a conscious CHOICE on their part.
“The person you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so you better make sure you’re someone interesting”
Fin Dforum_veteran"The_Dark_Knight wrote:
I beg to differ...
I know of a few females back in college before I enlisted in the army who were sadly and tragically molested and/or raped by either by their father or another male family member who CHOSE homosexuality as their lifestyle as the thought of a man touching them was repulsive to them.
That was a conscious CHOICE on their part.
Ohhhhhhhhhh ok, because a couple of women you know did that, then homosexuality is a choice.
Fine. When did you decide you were no longer attracted to men?
Sethdaddy8forum_veteran"The_Dark_Knight wrote:
I beg to differ...
I know of a few females back in college before I enlisted in the army who were sadly and tragically molested and/or raped by either by their father or another male family member who CHOSE homosexuality as their lifestyle as the thought of a man touching them was repulsive to them.
That was a conscious CHOICE on their part.
That doesn't sound like a choice at all. That sounds like a need if I ever heard of one. A need to adapt and live the only way they can.
Needs and desires aren't choices. The actions we take are always choices. Every time we engage in any activity, its a choice. What feels right to us is not. A man having sex with a man, or a monkey eating a banana. Desire-choice.
On another note, not related to you personally TDK, This whole notion of homosexuality and choice is barbaric. God used to tell us that only white folk were his real children too. There is nothing like the eternal embarrassment of being on the wrong side of history.
jupiterfinforum_veteran"The_Dark_Knight wrote:
After my "shotgun blast" it seems some of you are making intelligent arguments however, the overall gist of the article seems to be overlooked in the process of making your arguments. The question posed was is homosexuality a choice?
I highlighted certain aspects of the article which supports and also defuses the thought process that homosexuals are born to be homosexuals by uillustrating genetics in other behaviors of human beings.
Science has identified a gene that predisposes to people to alcoholism. Does this mean that just because one possesses this gene they are doomed to be alcoholics?
Science has identified a gene that predisposes people to hostility. Does this mean that just because someone possesses this gene they are doom to be psychopaths?
Sciene has progressed to the point that many traits of people can be predicted based on genetics and it's often celebrated, or used as a crutch to condone behavior,rationalizing it's not someone's fault due to their genetic makeup but it also seems to me that when political issues arise, genetics is rationalized to suit one's own personal point of view, regardless of the science involved. This has already been seen thus far in this thread.
Is homosexuality a choice? I have my own opinions but then again, I'm not a geneticist who can say for certainty one way or the other. I am a believer howver that environment has more to do with a person, the choices they make and the lives they live more than anything
So, basically, if you had been adopted at a young age by 2 homosexual men, you would be enjoying male sodomy today? You're such a bear!
finyank13New MemberIt cant be a choice, cant be....
I got a buddy who came out of the closet a few months backl at the age of 41.....Dude is a radical conservative like Fin-D is to liberals, religious (not southern religious aka lunatic), etc etc....When he came out and told us about how bad he hates himself and his life because of it, it was pretty telling, and here is a dude who tried for years to be hetero, banged a bunch of chicks actually but in the end he was tired of hiding it....
I think there are instances where it is learned behavior/choice like chicks in prison for instance.....but no overall it isnt a choice...
“If you told me A-Rod flew on a spaceship from Mars to here, I wouldn't be surprised."--thephins.com poster Ray Finkle on A-Rod
Jimmy JamesNew MemberI think some people have sexual rigidity inbuilt while others have sexual flexibility inbuilt. I think there are some people I could never imagine having sex with a man or with a woman, knowing them well. There are other people I know who could very easily pull off the bi thing. I think that's part of what creates some confusion here.
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