He payed well yesterday, good follow up from a pretty good performance last week, was aggressive with his punch, is really comin off the ball rather quickly the last two games, he can move and locate with some speed, and is showing a little nastiness in the process..
He looks to me that he's at least an improved ballplayer, the one part I see that's really different is the adjustment to move forward when he's engaging his punch, he's not waiting for his opponent to get on top of him, there is a conscious movement forward to throw the first punch and it seems to work for him.
He surely wasn't the reason for the offenses struggles early, and really helped Ryan on that last drive get down the field, especially on the first Keller pass and the 10 yard Daniel Thomas run that followed, I'm pretty sure his score will be higher than last week from PFF..I didn't see him lose on a play, and it's really obvious that he's been working on his punch that the coaches have been talking about.
Lets hope it continues..
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unluckyluciano, TNphinfan, Ducken and 6 others like this.
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Yup, he's a High 2nd round pick, he needs to perform like it, the only thing I was looking for was a nice leap in improvement, so far I think we've see that no?, and that's more than I expected so I'm happy to be off on that thus far..
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Jonathan Martin had a pretty good game. He did better than against Kyle Wilber the previous week. The Dolphins gave him a lot of help with chip blocks from the backs and tight ends, as well as double team help from Richie Incognito. On the 13 pass plays that Jon Martin played, he had help on 5 of those plays. That could approximate what the Dolphins end up doing during the season for Martin. But it does have its drawbacks. Tannehill didn't have as many good underneath options to hit the Jaguars with since they were in a shell coverage, because of all the help the offensive line required during those plays.
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Of course. The glass is always half empty with you isn't it?xphinfanx, unluckyluciano and Ohio Fanatic like this.
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He's not a bum ! He's not a bum ! Go Dolphins!
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As bad as Jake Long was last year ,he is no worse.I do hope for him to continue to improve this season.
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Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member
Not if he quits on his team as he did in the past ?? The locker-room can't make a difference then...Boik14 likes this. -
Actually Long was better than Martin last season and by a wide margin as far as pass protection even though he was banged up
Long allowed four sacks, seven hits, and 10 hurries in 12 games
while Martin allowed 6 sacks, four hits,and an incredible 47 hurries
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I don't know how that's possible to determine since the three chip blocks came right at the moment of first contact. One of the Incognito doubles definitely came at a point when Martin had lost control of the defender, and the other one again came right at the beginning when it's impossible for you to tell me that Jonathan Martin had control.Steve-Mo likes this.
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Then why repeatedly send chip blocks over toward Jon Martin's side, while quite literally not sending help toward Tyson Clabo a single time?
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PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member
You guys know this stuff much better than me so could you please answer a question? By having somebody chip to assist on blocking, in the passing game, what is taken away from elsewhere? From my limited view, as long as the pocket is contained, that should pretty much cover it right? Or is there a notable detriment to another aspect? -
Let's just hope Martin continues to show improvement, while I will be very glad when they settle on the rest of the starting 5 OL so these guys can gel a little before the start of the season.
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Your painting of this performance is incorrect imo, Martin punched his guy inside to incognito, he did not lose the play, the other chip came on the play that Tannehill left Keller out to dry in the flat, Keller got an excellent chip on his guy before he ran the route, like he's supposed to do, not because of martins inadequacies, Martin was in fine position to take on the Block and did.
If your talking about the third play of the game when you say"the other play at the beginning", that is a poor job of painting the picture that Martin needed help, Incognito was engaged with his man, Martin with his, right next to each other, Martin did not need the weak *** attempt of a chip by the back..
I'm suprised at your analysis of Martins performance, it was above average, and did not need help to become that. -
The primary costs IMO of having a guy chip block are timing and spacing. When a team is playing a lot of two deep shell coverage like the Jaguars were, there's not a lot you can do to challenge them deep. You have to keep hitting them underneath and trying to drop the ball into the holes in the zones. Some coaches (Norv Turner among them) like to hit those defenses up with backs and tight ends underneath the coverage. But the key to doing that IMO is timing and spacing. You have to be decisive about those throws so that you can get maximum run after catch. The time it takes a back or a tight end to chip a rusher on his way out to the route can impact his effectiveness as an underneath option by a lot. The QB can't throw it to him with super quick timing now because that would be too much for the back to handle as he's likely still getting his balance after the chip block. Now he's purely just an outlet to be hit late on the play, and that gives the defense time to calm down, read the quarterback, notice as he starts checking down to the outlet, and come crashing down on it. If you'd hit the guy more quickly and with him at full speed, you stand a better chance of catching defenders back on their heels. Also when you're having a tight end chip block from the backfield, he obviously can't be out on a pattern now exploiting the middle of the field which is a nice traditional money spot for exploiting two deep zones. That's where the spacing comes into it.Steve-Mo, Alex13, Ohio Fanatic and 1 other person like this.
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You're way off here. I already said that Martin did well. I mentioned that he had the help of three chip blocks and he also had good help from Incognito on two more plays because it's TRUE. Tyson Clabo didn't have the help of a single chip block. Your rebuttal of that is that Martin didn't need any one of those chip blocks or help blocks and I will tell you right now, yes he did need help from Incognito on one of them, and there's ZERO way to determine whether he needed chip blocking or help on the other plays. My analysis on Martin's performance is fair, balanced and fact based. Your analysis on the other hand, you're just seeing what you want to see. Sorry.Steve-Mo likes this.
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PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member
Got it...thanks much. -
LOL. Ok.
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I think that would be the same mindset the coaches have with him. They know they are going to have to send help in his direction. Why do you think they sent the chip blocks his way during a preseason game? It's not like the game outcome matters, and I doubt they're doing it because they truly think Ryan Tannehill is in danger of getting hurt.
They did it because they plan on doing it during the season and they want their backs and tight ends to get good at it, and they want Ryan Tannehill to get comfortable with the timing and change of options that comes with it.
If I have one concern with the mindset we're talking about where he'll need some help early and then they can wean him off it late...it's that a year ago he didn't necessarily get better as the season wore on, it was the opposite. He got worse. However, some of that could've been the infamous "rookie wall". -
Lets do this shall we..
1st play..Martin gets out of his stance and gets to the 2nd level to throw a cut Block on the outside linebacker, no help..his defender was in on the tackle but after a 6 yard gain.
2nd play..def end tries a spin move on Martin, loses his balance, Martin keeps him on the ground, no help.plus
3rd play..Lamar throws a weak chip on his way to a flat route while Martin engaged the player, it was simultaneous, and not needed for Martin had good position imo.plus
4th..Martin handles his player on the rush, throws him to the inside where cogs finished cause he had noone else to block..plus
5th play..Martin handles his defender with no help on the run play, If the blocking was good on the right side martins guy had no chance..plus.
6th play...handles the outside rush..no help..plus...Tannehill throws inaccurately to miller..plus
7th play..Keller chips martins guy on his way to a quick out route..Martin took over after..Ryan bailed to the right from another blockers defender coming thru..call it even.
8th play..Martin handled his guy on the Tannehill throw to Hartline..no help..plus.
9th play..drive block..no help...plus.
10 th play...cogs and Martin double teamed the guy from the get..washed him out of the play.
11th play..run play, cut block, executed..no help..plus.
12 th play...Keller chip martins man hard at the same time when Martin engaged his player, runs to the flat, Tannehill hangs him out to dry.
13th play..Martin handles the outside rush..no help..plus.
14th play..run pay, Martin makes a hole..no help..plus.
15 play..another run, Martin does his job, play goes to the other side..no help..plus.
16th play..Martin had his guy easy on the pas rush, plenty of time, Richie comes over to get unnecessary jab..no help..plus.
17th play..Martin contains his guy on the quick pass..no help..plus.
18th play..Martin rides his guy past Tannehill..no help..plus.
19th play...Martin engages his guy, has it handled, Richie comes over to have some fun..didnt need the help..plus.
Not sure what narrative your trying to paint here, but the tone you have when describing just doesn't fit the performance..
The few plays where the tight end got a chip, it was just that, a chip, on his way to a route..
If anyone wants to post all the gifs I'm all for it..GMJohnson likes this. -
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You tell me I'm seeing what I want to see, I write what I see and you post that..
Nice douche gif buddy..
My narrative is to describe his play in the first two games relative to what his performance was last year to get some idea if we have an improved player here..so far I would say he has..Have no idea what it is your doing. -
so PFF has the rams vs browns figures up but don't mention jake long, can someone look it up ?
mingo had a 2.8 on 32 snaps, no negative figure on any of his snaps -
Not up on PFF… what does 2.8 mean?
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curious for martin's number :), but its not up yet
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The fact that you account the denominator as 19 plays pretty much shows where your head is at on this issue. It's become emotional for you. I'd just assume we drop the subject and let the games happen as they will.
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PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member
2.8 is pretty good from the limited viewing I've had of their numbers. I.E. he'll need to be minimized in our Game 1.
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