Jonathan Martin told Philbin about his issues back in Spring

"ckparrothead wrote:

It's funny how people blatantly choose to hang onto certain details while ignoring others.

For example, talking about Martin being forced to pay for dinners without noting the known detail that he was a known participant in credit card roulette. That's not a fair treatment of the issue.

Another example, talking about Martin being the subject of that cafeteria prank without noting that he was one of the perpetrators of the same prank only one week earlier on Nate Garner.

Another example, talking about Martin being the subject of pranks without noting that Martin himself perpetrated a prank wherein Josh Samuda's car was essentially stolen and placed somewhere else.

Another example, talking about Jonathan Martin's relationship with Richie Incognito without noting that the two regularly hung out together, and that Martin explicitly wrote Incognito a text message saying he doesn't blame him or any of the other guys.

Another example, talking about the Dolphins sticking rookies with $30,000 bar bills without noting that the bill was split amongst several rookies, and that the practice is extraordinarily common in the NFL and the NFLPA knows about it and essentially cares not a lick.

Certain people have taken to fashioning these highly creative, highly customized situations, mindsets, and situations that could hypothetically be true and explain some of the contradictions and inconsistencies above. But why? Those pieces of fiction are intentionally fashioned to explain the inconsistencies, assuming one particular assumption is true, which is that Martin is a victim of bullying.

But why? Why the assumption? Why bend over backward finding all of these convoluted scenarios and explanations for making these inconsistencies meet perfectly?

Seems like the easiest explanation is the guy didn't face anything that 99.99% of the NFL players handle easily and dare I say even appreciate and participate in, but he couldn't handle it and now he's blowing it up into something big in order to justify it.

More people need to use some common sense and look at the facts like you have. Thank you for this post because this forum has become a **** storm since the Martin news broke. Normally I'd just fist bump but felt like that wasn't enough in this case.

"phinswolverinesrockets wrote:

"Lee2000 wrote:

I will take's Bpk's advise and move on from this topic. I have no doubt you wouldn't put up with it. And at this point in my life I wouldn't either. I trained in Hapkido for over 10 years and am generally not afraid of anyone from a physical standpoint. You might hurt me, but I will leave an impression myself. However, my training in Hapkido actually helped me understand a life without fighting, even though you could hurt someone. I take a win-win approach. I train people on how to deal with physical conflict in such a way that all parties are as protected as possible. I have been in a number of physical crisis situations, and what is ultimately important is that all parties learn from it. Is that always possible. Not always. But it is my goal. My actual job is to deal with people who are aggressive and threatening. The way I learned to overcome bully behavior was to simply make mysel... Right on...we'll just agree to disagree.

What do you mean " make yourself right on"??

"Destroyer wrote:

More people need to use some common sense and look at the facts like you have. Thank you for this post because this forum has become a **** storm since the Martin news broke. Normally I'd just fist bump but felt like that wasn't enough in this case.

"We received notification today from Jonathan's representation about allegations of player misconduct. We are taking these allegations very seriously and plan to review the matter further," the Dolphins said in the statement.
"We have also reached out to the NFL and asked them to conduct an objective and thorough review. As an organization, we are committed to a culture of team-first accountability and respect for one another."

This already is a **** storm so people are going to be on both sides of it regardless

"ckparrothead wrote:

It's funny how people blatantly choose to hang onto certain details while ignoring others.

For example, talking about Martin being forced to pay for dinners without noting the known detail that he was a known participant in credit card roulette. That's not a fair treatment of the issue.

Another example, talking about Martin being the subject of that cafeteria prank without noting that he was one of the perpetrators of the same prank only one week earlier on Nate Garner.

Another example, talking about Martin being the subject of pranks without noting that Martin himself perpetrated a prank wherein Josh Samuda's car was essentially stolen and placed somewhere else.

Another example, talking about Jonathan Martin's relationship with Richie Incognito without noting that the two regularly hung out together, and that Martin explicitly wrote Incognito a text message saying he doesn't blame him or any of the other guys.

Another example, talking about the Dolphins sticking rookies with $30,000 bar bills without noting that the bill was split amongst several rookies, and that the practice is extraordinarily common in the NFL and the NFLPA knows about it and essentially cares not a lick.

Certain people have taken to fashioning these highly creative, highly customized situations, mindsets, and situations that could hypothetically be true and explain some of the contradictions and inconsistencies above. But why? Those pieces of fiction are intentionally fashioned to explain the inconsistencies, assuming one particular assumption is true, which is that Martin is a victim of bullying.

But why? Why the assumption? Why bend over backward finding all of these convoluted scenarios and explanations for making these inconsistencies meet perfectly?

Seems like the easiest explanation is the guy didn't face anything that 99.99% of the NFL players handle easily and dare I say even appreciate and participate in, but he couldn't handle it and now he's blowing it up into something big in order to justify it.

I love you so much right now. Pretty much nailed my entire thoughts on the subject in this post.

CK, to your point, we only know of one tweet about one dinner where Martin seems to have participated in Credit Card Roulette and lost. There very well could be countless other times where he was stuck with the bill without choice. Again, we don't know, but given the national headlines this is garnering, I would venture to say that its true, along with more, egregious things.

Furthermore, there are now reports where Martin was pressured to drop 15k to a Vegas trip that he wasn't going on. Now, some would argue that it was his choice to pay to, but we also don't know what type of ridicule he was going to get for do ing so. And in a work environment where being a cohesive unit is paramount, he seems to have been put in a hard place.

Regardless of whethert any of us think it is bullying or not, the simple fact remains that Martin does, so it has to stop. That's the end of the discussion. You canc all hi names and soft and everything else, and maybe you are right, but regardless...dude was bullied in his eyes and it should have been addressed upon initial discovery.

We all know how this ends anyway, don't we? Incognito will be jettisoned, if not now, then at he end of the year. Martin will be brought back until an appropriate amount of time passes where Miami can dump him and we will be stuck with yet, another o-line rebuild.

Wow.

Some of you are so judgmental. None of you know Jonathan Martin. None of you know anything that has happened in his life ranging from his childhood to now. Blanket accusations and statements are being made while not knowing all the facts. Calling someone mentally weak for succumbing to peer pressure? What if he didn't get the emotional support needed at home when he was younger due to his parents constantly working and not being there for him? Or in other cases both his parents were alcoholics who were not there for him emotionally? Either scenario can cause an individual to partake in activities to be socially accepted by their peers. Whether its partaking in hazing, drinking, partying, whatever and consequentially them breaking down emotionally. There are so many scenarios for why this happened, yet none of us know the real reason.

The guy is just out of college. He's still a kid. He's dealing with the immense pressure 35 year olds are dealing with. No one gives them a break. Most people don't fully develop their brain until they are 25. I'm not standing up or crucifying him. I'm saying no one knows the situation or facts. Stop being so damn judgmental.

"Samphin wrote:

We all know how this ends anyway, don't we? Incognito will be jettisoned, if not now, then at he end of the year. Martin will be brought back until an appropriate amount of time passes where Miami can dump him and we will be stuck with yet, another o-line rebuild.

I hope that's all that happens.

Man this is a tough one to speculate on..I find it hard to believe there was malicious intent.

Listen...I have no sources...no inside information. I don't have a " friend" or a relative who works for the Dolphins. I just have a real funny feeling that there is some HUGE underlying factor going on here. Just a hunch. You have the feeling like you are just waiting for the other shoe to drop. A lot of tap dancing by Dolphin players...Coaches and GMs around the league when it comes to this situation and particularly Martin. Again...I have no inside info....just my opinion and funny feeling about where this is all headed

"NyPhinfan wrote:

Listen...I have no sources...no inside information. I don't have a " friend" or a relative who works for the Dolphins. I just have a real funny feeling that there is some HUGE underlying factor going on here. Just a hunch. You have the feeling like you are just waiting for the other shoe to drop. A lot of tap dancing by Dolphin players...Coaches and GMs around the league when it comes to this situation and particularly Martin. Again...I have no inside info....just my opinion and funny feeling about where this is all headed

To be honest I think it will come out that there is nothing that unusual. NFL is a boys club, and there will be a debate whether the culture needs to change.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

To be honest I think it will come out that there is nothing that unusual. NFL is a boys club, and there will be a debate whether the culture needs to change.

I truly hope you are right. Can't imagine this media circus getting any worse . Yet it could

"DPlus47 wrote:

The new rookie wage scale means that a $30k meal tab IS a lot to most rookies.

And this is for ONE meal. These guys go out a lot you could easily be spending 10's of thousands of dollars if your teammates are routinely ringing up tabs close to this. I don't care who you are thats a ton of money. Yeah a guy might get a big bonus and have a salary of a million dollars but after the tax man gets his cut, you buy a house, car, take care of your family....I don't want to spend 10's of thousands wining and dining my "friends" on the team. Sounds like it went over the top, we'll have to see how this shakes out.

If it was bullying, so be it. But here's a question; how is it that the Dolphins should stop it given that the perpetrators (if any) are grown men who have lives outside of the facility that you cannot impede on.

If they knew and addressed it, after a certain point there is only so much the organization can do. That is the reality, after that it simply comes down to the individuals involved and their value structure. You cannot legislate or watch all of this type of nonsense, if you did you'd be unemployed as a coach as you wouldn't be able to do your actual job. I'm not saying they turn a blind eye but Philbin is going to only have so much involvement. Your HC can't be running around monitoring it everyday, its not possible.

"invid wrote:

An addendum to this post:

If Martin was forced into credit card roulette on a trip to Vegas he wasn't going on, or was somehow mislead into thinking he wouldn't have to pay for a dinner or something like it and then was flipped into paying, then that is a legitimate gripe.

If this kind of crap is actually going on, anyone related remotely to the OL should be fired ASAP, along with Incognito or whoever was pulling this crap. An OL must be a band of brothers so to speak, or they will play like ours has so far. If all this, or any of it, is true then I know why Tannehill is about to set a league record for being sacked.

I really want the truth of this to come out in full and who is bullying who. Then the related players and coaching staff that turned a blind eye to it, gone from our team by the day after season ends.

If this is true, it explains a lot to me, and makes me mad as hell!

MD Dolphins and doctor NFL have issued the diagnosis on Martin Thursday night.

This whole thing is awfully fishy. Is Martin is being harmed by all the locker room hi-jinx and pranks, why is he participating in them himself when someone else is the target? Why does he continue to text and hang out with Incognito if he's harming him so much? Something is missing here.

No one can convince me that this is a Dolphins only issue when it comes to things that are happening inside the locker room. This happens everywhere. It's an NFL issue. My gut feeling is that Martin snapped for whatever reason and is trying to save face by saying he was "bullied". The fact that many current and former players are going on twitter and tweeting that they never experienced what Martin is complaining about further proves it for me.

My deepest sympathies for Martin if he does indeed have a serious mental issue, but right now I feel like this is a guy that just can't or doesn't know how to handle an NFL locker room for whatever reason. And if it comes out that there is a problem with him, I really hope he gets the help he needs. No one should have to suffer like that in life and he seems like a good kid.

He can't be making it a daily priority but he can delegate the responsibility to someone if he feels or felt it merited that. Then be apprised as needed.

He also would have to make an informed decision on the matter and if he felt that any player(s) was taking extreme liberties he should be in control of that. Was it that bad ? We don't know , but personally from the stories and details I think at best it was not handled well by the veteran players , coaches and management.

What Martin told Philbin will be important in this imo , if he brought up issues that we have been told happened , almost strong arming for cash for example , then there is no easy out as I see it. There would have been responsibility that had to have been taken.

"ckparrothead wrote:

There is most definitely a failure to lead aspect to all this. Yes it's damning of Philbin. But it's also damning of the players themselves. Veterans are supposed to handle their own to some extent when it comes to issues like this. What Beasley has been reporting on with various players grousing about making the rookies pay for everything, that's a failure to lead. It's the leaders on the team that are supposed to make sure either that the rookies understand why they're being asked to do this, or to offer them some relief if the veterans are taking it too far.

I agree with this. Where is the leadership? Regardless of what some may think of Martin, if he brought this to light in the spring to Joe Philbin, and Philbin did nothing to stop it, then that may just be a microcosm of his career as a head coach to this point.

There was a good discussion on NFL Network this morning about the Dallas Cowboys and who the leaders are there. It was said that it has to be clear that the two leaders of the team are the head coach and the quarterback. Right now, I think we have to question who is the leader of this team.

"Samphin wrote:

CK, to your point, we only know of one tweet about one dinner where Martin seems to have participated in Credit Card Roulette and lost. There very well could be countless other times where he was stuck with the bill without choice. Again, we don't know, but given the national headlines this is garnering, I would venture to say that its true, along with more, egregious things.

Furthermore, there are now reports where Martin was pressured to drop 15k to a Vegas trip that he wasn't going on. Now, some would argue that it was his choice to pay to, but we also don't know what type of ridicule he was going to get for do ing so. And in a work environment where being a cohesive unit is paramount, he seems to have been put in a hard place.

Regardless of whethert any of us think it is bullying or not, the simple fact remains that Martin does, so it has to stop. That's the end of the discussion. You canc all hi names and soft and everything else, and maybe you are right, but regardless...dude was bullied in his eyes and it should have been addressed upon initial discovery.

We all know how this ends anyway, don't we? Incognito will be jettisoned, if not now, then at he end of the year. Martin will be brought back until an appropriate amount of time passes where Miami can dump him and we will be stuck with yet, another o-line rebuild.

I really have a problem with that. IMO it's one of the things that's wrong with this country. I hate the idea that everybody has to walk around on eggshells out of fear that one person will be offended. Reality is that if it's something that 99% of people don't have an issue with then that 1% is the problem. And the 99% shouldn't have to change to accommodate that 1%. I don't know everything that was occurring, but I can say that nothing I've heard so far is any different than what goes on in most every locker room. Since Martin himself has allegedly stated that it was nothing different than what goes on in every locker room, I don't see any reason to believe that whatever occurred here was so egregious. And if that was the case then Martin was probably wise to consider leaving for a different profession. In the end this may result in some politically correct, sensitivity training, but that will just be nothing more than an accommodation for somebody who'll probably leave the sport regardless and be happier in another line of work.

"KB21 wrote:

I agree with this. Where is the leadership? Regardless of what some may think of Martin, if he brought this to light in the spring to Joe Philbin, and Philbin did nothing to stop it, then that may just be a microcosm of his career as a head coach to this point.

There was a good discussion on NFL Network this morning about the Dallas Cowboys and who the leaders are there. It was said that it has to be clear that the two leaders of the team are the head coach and the quarterback. Right now, I think we have to question who is the leader of this team.

How is this automatically a "leadership" issue?

This whole thing smacks of dishonesty by the press, first of all. Secondly, for all any of us know, Philbin handled it when it was brought up, and then things got seemingly better with Martin involved in numerous pranks himself.

This whole effing thing is absurd and the media and the wanna be media on this board are all pushing this agenda. Its ridiculous.

"Conuficus wrote:

If it was bullying, so be it. But here's a question; how is it that the Dolphins should stop it given that the perpetrators (if any) are grown men who have lives outside of the facility that you cannot impede on.

If they knew and addressed it, after a certain point there is only so much the organization can do. That is the reality, after that it simply comes down to the individuals involved and their value structure. You cannot legislate or watch all of this type of nonsense, if you did you'd be unemployed as a coach as you wouldn't be able to do your actual job. I'm not saying they turn a blind eye but Philbin is going to only have so much involvement. Your HC can't be running around monitoring it everyday, its not possible.

If that were true the league couldn't punish players for smoking pot. When it comes to something like vets 'persuading' rookies to buy them things the team could easily step in if it wanted to. The team can't know about every incident but they can at least say 'don't do it.'

"ckparrothead wrote:

It's funny how people blatantly choose to hang onto certain details while ignoring others.

For example, talking about Martin being forced to pay for dinners without noting the known detail that he was a known participant in credit card roulette. That's not a fair treatment of the issue.

Another example, talking about Martin being the subject of that cafeteria prank without noting that he was one of the perpetrators of the same prank only one week earlier on Nate Garner.

Another example, talking about Martin being the subject of pranks without noting that Martin himself perpetrated a prank wherein Josh Samuda's car was essentially stolen and placed somewhere else.

Another example, talking about Jonathan Martin's relationship with Richie Incognito without noting that the two regularly hung out together, and that Martin explicitly wrote Incognito a text message saying he doesn't blame him or any of the other guys.

Another example, talking about the Dolphins sticking rookies with $30,000 bar bills without noting that the bill was split amongst several rookies, and that the practice is extraordinarily common in the NFL and the NFLPA knows about it and essentially cares not a lick.

Certain people have taken to fashioning these highly creative, highly customized situations, mindsets, and situations that could hypothetically be true and explain some of the contradictions and inconsistencies above. But why? Those pieces of fiction are intentionally fashioned to explain the inconsistencies, assuming one particular assumption is true, which is that Martin is a victim of bullying.

But why? Why the assumption? Why bend over backward finding all of these convoluted scenarios and explanations for making these inconsistencies meet perfectly?

Seems like the easiest explanation is the guy didn't face anything that 99.99% of the NFL players handle easily and dare I say even appreciate and participate in, but he couldn't handle it and now he's blowing it up into something big in order to justify it.

Not discounting your theory, but it is a theory. I need to hear more to draw any conclusions in that direction. Not saying it isn't a possibility, but that might be too neat and clean.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Armando Salguero @ArmandoSalguero

Former Dolphins DT Tim Bowens packed and was ready to leave team because he didn't want to be hazed. Don Shula found out. Hazing stopped.

No one can say that Tim Bowen was SOFT, I personally think that for a player in this case JMartin to get ready to quit, must be pretty bad, bad to the point that became almost impossible to stay in this kind of harassment, nothing to do of being soft, time will tell the real story

Honestly when drafting offensive linemen you need to draft by skill and personality. I want some nasty, pissed off SOB's like Incognito protecting our quarterback. Even Jake Long who is considered a good guy is known to get nasty in game, you know no one is going to be bullying Jake Long. Pouncey, battle tested playing in the SEC. Martin was never that kinda player in college...

This whole thing reminds me of prison culture.

I don't think you see either of them again.....