Brother a good point to your post will be how good Beck does this year with a real coaching staff. I believe Cameron was way over his head. He had one play book for Lemon, and one for Beck to sit back there and get killed. I am looking forward to see what Beck can do this year, especially working out so hard, and with David Lee the QB coach as well.

 

I don't know that I totally agree with you that skipping Cameron would have been a total win for the fins but I do partially (because I do feel Cameron had a solid draft with Satele and I would still like to see what Beck and Ginn can do). Anyhow I'll give you my list that I've questioned, struggled with, and have came to accept.

Cameron Regime changes:

TE Randy McMichael was released and TE David Martin was brought in (I don't see an upgrade there).

WR Chris Chambers traded for a 2nd round pick (which I hated since the fins were already thin at WR).

WR Wes Welker was traded for a 2nd round pick (which he then went on to blow up in New England after having a good year in Miami the year before).

OLB Joey Porter was brought in and given a huge contract which he didn't live up too (but that could have been the defensive style of play).

Also I believe P Donnie Jones was allowed to leave by signing with the Rams.

Then of course drafting the Ginn Family with the #9 overall pick.


So if I am wrong on any of this or gave any false info. please let the powers that be correct me. :hi5:

 

I think all four: McMichael, Welker, Jones, and Chambers would still be in Miami. As far as the 2007 draft would have went I feel that Quinn would have went at #9 with a lineman defensive/offensive, or some other Parcells like player would have went in Beck's place. Then the rest of the draft would have followed the pattern we saw this year (I'm not a draft guru).

In addition I don't think that the Trent Green experiment would have happened and a Parcells like QB would have led the offense until Quinn was ready.

Overall, the 53 man roster would have been a lot like it will be this year except we would have the addition of McMichael, Chambers, Jones, and Welker making an overall better team.

Is this more of what your looking for. :wink2:

 

I think we would have Brady Quinn instead of Tedd Ginn Jr. and John Beck, not sure I would like that.

 

Better question is...
Who would of we picked with 9th overall?

 

Amobi Okoye or Patrick Willis.

 

I'd take Willis 10/10 times over Ginn. Don't get me wrong, like you said, Ginn is one of my favorites in this league but Willis? That man is an absolute monster and I love his game. He excels in the 34 that the 49ers run and would fill the HUGE void left by the one and only Zach Thomas.

 

Don't remind me, the fact that Willis could be wearing a Fins uni right now pisses me off.

I would take him over Ginn every day of the week.

 

Let's....stick to reality.

 

I entered that phrase into translate.google.com and it said "1-15."

Damn.

 

Still have:

Wes Welker

Wouldn't have:

Ted Ginn Jr.

 

I would appreciate it if you could further explain how the situation with Welker was worked out. I believe your telling me that since he was a "restricted" free agent that the fins could have got a 2nd round tender for him if he signed with the Pats but if he was traded to the Pats then the Fins would have gotten a 2nd round pick; am I correct?

If this was the case I still feel that the Fins should have kept him as he was worth more than a second round pick because of his versatility (that in my eyes made him more than the slot receiver). It seems to me that he could do all of the things that Ginn can because Welker could also return punts (not sure about kickoffs).

In the end I would prefer Welker over Ginn and I look forward to your possible rebuttal.

 

Wes Welker, in three years at Miami, had 1 receiving TD and 1 return TD.

Ginn, in one year, has already surpassed that with 2 receiving TDs and 1 return TD.

Plus with the 2nd we got for Welker, we picked up Samson Satele.

No contest there.

 

With all due respect, I think your logic is EXTREMELY flawed.

Sparano (Actually Tuna and Ireland) would take Chad Henne but not Beck?

They would let go of Zach and both Booker's but not Chambers?

I just dont understand the reasoning on this at all

 

Yeah, Beck was highly rated by Ireland when he was coming out.

 

Those are some good stats but it still isn't convincing to me because Welker has that same talent (as Ginn) which was showcased by his 8 TDs last year in New England. I know we are comparing apples and oranges by comparing the talent of last year's Fins and Pats but it still shows Welker could have easily posted 2 TDs and a return for a TD last year in Miami.

I'm not a Ginn hater but to me he will never be worth the #9 overall pick especially when I feel that the Fins would have been just as well served by keeping Welker, getting Quinn with the #9 pick and say getting Satele where Beck went (just saying).

So take the situation where you have: Quinn, Satele, and Welker; and compare that to: Ginn, Beck, and Satele. Its all personal preference but I would prefer the first option. I wish the best for Ginn and hope that he ends up being the next great NFL receiver but as of right now I believe you can see where I'm coming from.

 

And this would solve the problems how?

This will be an easy breakdown

Samson=Samson, but at at higher cost if picked 2-1...and chances are we wouldve picked Ryan Khalil instead, which wouldve been unfortunate

Samson > Khalil

Beck > Quinn. Neither has had a chance, but cmon Brady Quinn? And the cost of a bench warming QB would be a HUGE cap hit. Guess what, there is a reason that 13 other teams behind us also passed on Quinn :up:. Only the Browns traded away a first rounder to move up to get a hometown kid...a move they will regret for years, and a move the Cowboys would make over and over and over and over

I am far from being a Ginn guy. But cmon, Little Wesly Wanker isnt close to being the player Ginn will end up being. I was ALL OVER the Pat Willis Bandwagon (Go back to Finheaven where I posted SEVERAL THREADS in regards to "We better pick Willis). But, Welker was the right guy in the right situation last year. Ginn was a rookie in a horrible situation.

Ginn > Wanker.

 

I think all 4 would still be gone, you see the changes that were made this year.

The one player that would not be here is Ginn, no way Parcells and bunch would have drafted him.

 

All great points but it still doesn't change my mind. Personally I am a fan of Beck and prefer him to win the starting job in 2008 but if I had to choose him or Quinn I would have chosen Quinn.

In the end this is what we as fans do; disagree on things. Time will tell us if this all worked out for the best (and I hope it does) but I will forever think that the Cameron regime blundered everything they had their hands on from the 2007 draft to letting Welker go to bringing in Trent Green and so on. Also Willis would have been a great pick at #9 (even more so than Quinn) which if that would happened would open a whole new can of worms in this argument.

Also as of now: Welker > Ginn and to me both Willis and Quinn > Ginn, plus Quinn > Beck. Remember this is all right now situations can change and I hope they do. :up:

 

No one truly knows but I think Chambers and Welker would be (maybe Jones but honestly punters are easily replaced so I'm not sore about him being gone). McMichael may have also gotten the boot for character issues and the fact that Anthony Fasano could have been higher on Parcells' list. However, Chambers and Welker I still think would be here and not Beck or Ginn with probably Quinn and some other receiver (or another Parcells guy at another position) being here.

 

This is pretty easy. We surely wouldn't have drafted a WR with the #9 pick. We would have taken either the kid DT from Louisville or Patrick Willis. No way would this FO have picked Ginn @#9.

 

How do you get that Quinn is better than anybody? He is the third guy on Clevelands depth chart, and much different than Beck whom has worked his *** off, Quinn is gonna pretty much stay right where he is?

Tuna and Ireland not only passed him by in Dallas, they passed him by to pick up an additional first round pick. They obviously werent going to pick him at 22, why on gods green earth do you think they would pick him at 9? :pity:

 

Things would be much different.

 

Yep. And it makes sense. A rookie WR will get, if he's lucky, 6 touches a game (including KO and PR and reverses). A LB or DT can play 15-20 plays a game, and thats bringing him along slowly. There is FAR more value in an every down player than there is in a WR.

 

I think any GM worth his weight in salt would. I remember that the prevalent feeling was that "we didn't need Willis" because we had JT, ZT, and JP already. Just a memo on that kind of thinking...You always NEED a LB who makes plays, even if your top three guys aren't all in their 30s.

Last year we got caught up in the Brady Quinn vs Whomever we picked mindset. In the first round, if you pick the best of either OL, DL, or LB...you will have done yourself a great service.

Having said all of this, I think Ginn will be a productive player for us.

 

I'm with you FFIC. I can't wait to see it too.

 

I agree except for Welker. With the premium that Parcells places on Special teams and niche players, Welker would have been signed. At the very least there is absolutely no way that the Tuna would have let him sign to a division opponent.

Chambers and McM would have been dumped so fast that they would have left skid marks on the asphalt. Guinn would not have been drafted either, at least not in the first round. I don't see them drafting Beck in the 2nd either. I think they would have been much more patient with Sage Rosenfells. Sage looked more promising than Beck has so far...

Saban earned everyones hatred, but everyone totally forgets that if it weren't for Chambers and McM fumbling or dropping passes, we would have gone to the playoffs that year. McM cost us two games by himself.

 

Wasn't at that time Wade Phillips in control and if not Touche. :wink2:

Look AZ we are not going to agree on this. The only thing that will solve it is time. I think that Quinn has more upside than Beck but Quinn hasn't had his shot yet and I don't blame Beck for last season because he didn't have a chance on that team. Beck I still think can be a good QB in the NFL and I like him to win the starting job this year but I would rather have Quinn rather than him or Ginn.

Lets let time take its course and we'll see but I'm rooting for the players on the Fins roster over anyone else.

 

This has been said many many times. The dolphins had no choice. Welker signed a poison pill tender offer with the Patriots. To avoid any negativity, they engineered a "trade" there was even talk of collusion around the league. He was going to the Patriots, and there was nothing a hypothetical Bill Parcells could do about it.

Yeah parcells sure hates 970 yards and over 270 yards in the playoffs from Chambers. Glad we got rid of that bum. We're so deep at receiver right now.

Freudian slip??? Are you think of Ginn or wishing we drafted Quinn? :wink2:

they would have been patiently waiting for him. He was a UFA before the 2006 year.

2006? We were 6-10. You think we go to the playoffs but for Chambers and McMike? :pity:

 

Wes needed a bigger opportunity on offense and an NFL Quarterback that was worthy of starting in the NFL.

The love for Ginn on this board is surprising since the uproar of most Miami fans of the Ginn selection. Hard to imagine 35 receptions can get so much love. I guess when you've been struggling for so long after being used to winning, its easy to love anything.

 

Dude, none of your replies make a whole lot of sense. We were 9-7 in 2005 & would have made the play-offs with just one more win. We lost at least two games that season due directly to Mcm fumbling a game away and Chambers dropping a game winning TD pass in the endzone that hit him right between the numbers.

Welker's contract offer by the Pats would have never taken place if they wanted to sign him they would have done it before then.

I don't like Quinn, I was probably thinking of the heavy weight boxer. (Guinn).

 

This would make sense unless of course the Tuna decided to bring in someone like Bledsoe..:no:





Marino1983

 

Oh I'm sorry, we were talking about 2006 to 2007, didn't know you changed the paramaters of the thread :tantrum: You want to talk about Chambers in 2005? Blame that season on him? You sure about that? We don't win two games without him at least. Buffalo and San Diego.

They offered him what he was worth. You said it yourself, special teams and niche players. You don't offer him what New England offered him, for special teams and niche.

 

Ok so on bolded #2 are you saying that we could have gotten the 2nd for Welker from NE and then let him walk (not to NE but anywhere). If so and we wanted to not pay Welker and get a high draft pick why not do it, forget the 7th pick, and let him possibly go to somewhere besides NE. That is of course if that is what your saying.

Also the whole mess could have been solved by signing Welker before he became a restricted free agent making the poison pill situation inconsequential.

 

Got ya :up:

 

Aqua, the poison pill works by making the matching team have to pay the higher price, not the one making the offer. So if the offer sheet was made, that it would be a contract that isn't too prohibitive I heard 7 years, 38 million, but only like 20 milly the first five years, so they can cut him after year 5, and be ok. However, the poison pill works by saying something like, if he plays more than 5 games in florida, then the whole thing becomes guaranteed. That's the poison part.

So when you ask, "For some reason, we took the deal rather than just having the Patriots eat the large contract." They wouldn't have had to eat a large contract, because if he signed that offer, the contract would remain as is, and not prohibitive.

Also must note, I don't think they offered him a contract. They were thinking about it, but rumor is Kraft didnt' want to engage in "shady" practices. That's why they signed him to a standard contract after trading for him. So the poison pill was a threat, and in play, but never really was formalized.