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"R&R Express wrote:

Phil Jackson really helped a less talented team? :confused2:

No but I believe he could.

"Boik14 wrote:

Eh, that was the exception not the rule. Good coaches can make a difference just as a bad coach can make a difference. For the most part thought its a players league. Rare are your Jerry Sloans, Phil Jacksons and Pat Rileys who can really help less talented teams overachieve. Carlisle did do an excellent job though. He made every right adjustment, made every correct play call, maximized his players talent.

True, typically in the NBA when the well coached team meets the more physically talented team, they tend to lose close series.

Jerry Sloan is as fine a X and O's BBall man as you could think of, his teams just did not have enough to overcome more talent.

"gamblerx wrote:

I guess you didn't see the last season's NBA Finals.

I don't think you know what you wrote. Or are you suggesting that Spo cost the Heat the Finals?

"Section126 wrote:

I don't think you know what you wrote. Or are you suggesting that Spo cost the Heat the Finals?

Mavs just executed what they had to do in order to win close games, that was not on Spo, hats off to the Mavs.

"Boik14 wrote:

Eh, that was the exception not the rule. Good coaches can make a difference just as a bad coach can make a difference. For the most part thought its a players league. Rare are your Jerry Sloans, Phil Jacksons and Pat Rileys who can really help less talented teams overachieve. Carlisle did do an excellent job though. He made every right adjustment, made every correct play call, maximized his players talent.

there are metrics to suggest who coached "better".

Carlisle did play his better players, based on WP, MORE minutes than Spo did. So advanced stats suggest that Carlisle did a better job.

and none of that matters if the Heat hold onto a 15 point 4th quarter lead in game 2.

"Section126 wrote:

there are metrics to suggest who coached "better".

Carlisle did play his better players, based on WP, MORE minutes than Spo did. So advanced stats suggest that Carlisle did a better job.

and none of that matters if the Heat hold onto a 15 point 4th quarter lead in game 2.

This isnt about the Heat although the fact is they didnt hang on to said lead so none of that matters either.

The discussion was that few coaches can actually make a difference for the better in the NBA. Carlisle in last years NBA's Finals was just one example not a shot at Miami. For the record I think Spo is a pretty good coach but more to the point I was actually in agreement with your post (#422).

So which of you hoopfans wants to join fantasy basketball: http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?67228-The-Phins-2011-Fantasy-Basketball&p=1650590#post1650590

Now we can see who is living in fantasy and reality.... :)

The finals didn't come down to coaching, it came down to 4th qtrs, and we all know what that meant.

"padre31 wrote:

Mavs just executed what they had to do in order to win close games, that was not on Spo, hats off to the Mavs.

They literally hit every single three-point shot they took.

"Fin-Omenal wrote:

The finals didn't come down to coaching, it came down to 4th qtrs, and we all know what that meant.

not really..but if it makes you feel better, believe what you want.

"lmeister3 wrote:

They literally hit every single three-point shot they took.

See how that works?

"padre31 wrote:

See how that works?

padre, you really have to stop embracing flukes as evidence of something significant and commonplace. They’re flukes for a reason.

"Desides wrote:

padre, you really have to stop embracing flukes as evidence of something significant and commonplace. They’re flukes for a reason.

I don't believe "flukes" exist Des, as in there is no purely random events that dictate outcomes.

For example, it is not as if the Mavs players were throwing the ball at Heat players, and having the ball go into the hoop, they were taking shots, and they made them.

Mavs had one fluke game, and then followed it by a near fluke game. But that doesn't matter. Heat lost game 2 and 6 at home. They deserved to lose. Mavs deserved the win, no matter the flukes. Flukes happen.

"Section126 wrote:

not really..but if it makes you feel better, believe what you want.

Feel better about what? The team I wanted to win...WON. I felt great!

If you disagree that 4th quarters were the key to Dallas being crowned then we must have been watching different games.

"Section126 wrote:

Mavs had one fluke game, and then followed it by a near fluke game. But that doesn't matter. Heat lost game 2 and 6 at home. They deserved to lose. Mavs deserved the win, no matter the flukes. Flukes happen.

Yes, they do. The problem here is that padre habitually interprets flukes as common occurrences and then reshapes his view of a team or even a sport based on that fluke.

"Fin-Omenal wrote:

Feel better about what? The team I wanted to win...WON. I felt great!

If you disagree that 4th quarters were the key to Dallas being crowned then we must have been watching different games.

Well, no. The team you wanted to win got swept in the 1st round. Let's get at least that, right.

Too simplistic to just say that the Mavs won because of the "4th quarters". They won for a host of reasons. In 2 of the losses, the Heat scored more points per possession in the 4th quarter, shot a higher percentage, and still lost. That suggests other reasons. Mainly, rebounding.

In order, they lost because:

1. Rebounding.
2. Pace (too slow)
3. The Dallas Zone
4. Dirk was unstoppable.
5. The Mavs shot a abnormally high percentage from three.

and as for the Lebron not playing well in the 4th quarter arguments....irrelevant. Dwyane Wade was terrible versus Chicago in the ECF's and the Heat won the series 4-1.

You cant just dismiss Lebron's 4th quarter Finals performances as "irrelevant". There is a fundamental difference between his performance and Wade's and that is Miami needed Lebron to do more in order to win the series vs the Mavs. The Heat did not need Wade to do more then he did to beat the Bulls. The games with Chicago were close games for the most part but the minute Rose was shut down (by Lebron) the Bulls couldnt score. With the Mavs, it was different. The Mavs could score even when Dirk started slow or hit a wall. The Heat needed Lebron and Lebron didnt deliver. Maybe he gets redemption this year or next but just watching the series Lebron's failure to score more late in the game was a primary reason, along with rebounding, that the Heat lost. Just like the Heat might not have lost that series if they dont blow a 15 point lead in G2, the Heat also probably dont lose that series if Lebron scores more then 2.3PPG in the 4th quarter.

"Boik14 wrote:

You cant just dismiss Lebron's 4th quarter Finals performances as "irrelevant”.

That’s not what he’s doing. He’s giving credit to the Mavericks, which is the opposite of what you’re doing to LeBron.

:jt0323:

I am not "dismissing" it, I am just saying that it wasn't the main factor. The Heat played poorly in alot of areas in that series, Lebron's terrible 4th quarters in most of the games, while a major factor, could have easily been overcome. That was my point.

and yeah, it cheapens how well the Mavs played to merely just say that LBJ with minor improvement would have beaten them.

People underestimate how well the Mavs played in that series.

How many shots did Kobe hit in the 4th quarter of the 4 games against Dallas in the playoffs???

"Desides wrote:

That’s not what he’s doing. He’s giving credit to the Mavericks, which is the opposite of what you’re doing to LeBron.

That was not the impression I got but Ive been wrong before. Also i did give Lebron credit for his play against Rose in the Bulls series. And I gave Lebron credit again by singling him out knowing full well he CAN do more then he did.

"Section126 wrote:

and yeah, it cheapens how well the Mavs played to merely just say that LBJ with minor improvement would have beaten them.

People underestimate how well the Mavs played in that series.

That was not the impression I got from your prior posts but if I misinterpreted I apologize. Even though youre a Heat fan I have big respect for your basketball opinion :)

"Stringer Bell wrote:

How many shots did Kobe hit in the 4th quarter of the 4 games against Dallas in the playoffs???

Hmmmmmmmm. That's interesting.

So I looked it up.

And the Black Mamba, Assassin, Killer, destroyer of hope, champion, Captain Clutch did this in the 4th quarters vs. Dallas:

4.0 PPG 6 - 16 FG 37.5% FG 4 - 4 FT

Lebron's problem was a lack of aggressiveness, when he only shot 6-17 in the entire series in the 4th quarter. He took 1 more shot than Kobe, and played two more games.